Patch 1.0.6 Discussion/Placebo Effect General

[Katakiri]

Confirmed changes:

• Dimensional Cape's On-Stage RCO Lag removed!

Needs further confirmation:

• N-Air landing lag reduced?

| 1.0.5 Hit Frames | 1.0.6 Hit Frames | 1.0.5 Ending Lag | 1.0.6 Ending Lag
Jab | 6, , 30 | | 34 | 34
Dash Attack | 7-11 | | 16 | 16
F-Tilt | 6, 12, 17 | | 30 | 30
U-Tilt | 8-10, 8-14, 11-14 | | 18 | 18
D-Tilt | 3-4 | | 12 | 12
Side Smash | 24 | | 14 | 14
Up Smash | 8, 12, 17 | | 28 | 28
Down Smash | 4, 9 | | 24 | 24
N-Air | 6-7, 8-20 | | Landing 20 | Landing 18?
F-Air | 9, 12, 15 | | Landing 20 | Landing 20
B-Air | 7-8, 13-14, 20-21 | | Landing 18 | Landing 18
U-Air | 6 | | Landing 18 | Landing 18
D-Air | 4 | | Landing 22 | Landing 22
Grab | 7-8 | | 22 | 22
Dash Grab | 9-10 | | 24 | 24
Pivot Grab | 9-10 | | 18 | 18
Mach Tornado | 12, | 12 | 44 | 44
Drill Rush | 22, , 56 | | Grounded 20 | Grounded 20
Shuttle Loop | 8, 20 | | Landing 24| Landing 24
Dimensional Cape | 34 | | Slash 56 | Slash 56

Frame data is hand-tested until a frame dump is available. May be off by a frame or two.

 

[Dogivet]

Reading there was a maintenance for Nintendo Network, I think, around 11:50-2am PT, morning of 15th (this was on Nintendo Everything or one of those sites, can't seem to find it again and not entirely sure on its credibility), so there's still some time.

Regardless my advice is to maybe write it down elsewhere then post here, after all if last time was any indication...
A storm approaches......
Crashboards.......
is coming.......

 

[LostinpinK]

I'll keep my 3DS with the previous version for testings to avoid the ****ton of placebo effects we had last patch. And please guys try not to spread misinformation / stuff that wasn't tested to other boards!

 

[ItoI6]

hopefully there will be something good. is there a current %damage chart for each move? I'll need to reference it while I test moves

 

[Bonk!]

Let's make sure somebody can test landing lag on aerials too cause I'm not gonna be the one to do that

 

[warionumbah2]

hopefully there will be something good. is there a current %damage chart for each move? I'll need to reference it while I test moves

Ground Moves
Jab - 9% or 10%
Ftilt - 7%
Utilt - Sourspot 5%/Sweetspot 7%
Dtilt - 5%
Dash Attack - Sweetspot 6%/Sourspot 5%

Smash Attacks
F-Smash - Uncharge 16%/Fully Charged 22%
D-Smash - Uncharged Front - 7% Back 10%/Fully Charged Front 9% Back 14%
U-Smash - Uncharged 9%/Fully Charged 12%

Throws
Down Throw - 7%
Up Throw - 10%
Back Throw - 10%
Forward Throw - 9%

Aerials
Nair - Sweetspot 10%/Sourspot 7%
Dair - 6%
Bair - 7% or 8%(first 2 hits apparently do more damage to grounded opponents same goes for Fair)
Uair - 5%
Fair - 6% or 7%

Specials
Tornado - 23%/On Bowser Jr and Jump Shulk 26%
Shuttle Loop - Ground 15%/Aerial 12%
Dimensional Cape - 15% (stationary slash on the ground)/14% (retreating slash)/16% (advancing slash and stationary slash in the air.)
Drill Rush - 10%

I'm not getting my hopes up for this patch, if my expectation is low then I'll either not feel too gutted or I'll jump for joy if he gets buffed. If there's any inconsistencies with the damage list just tell me. We should also check his kill moves and combo's.

Keep the placebo effect bullcrap in reddit or something i dunno, its hella annoying seeing stuff like that.

I think @ Katakiri will check the frame data.

 

[Ulevo]

http://pastebin.com/GgwvXpdr

http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8

http://smashboards.com/threads/all-character-landing-lag-frame-data.371503/

Refer to these entries.

 

[V23]

Came here to say #Believe

 

[Ulevo]

The patch is out. Start looking.

 

[Ulevo]

META KNIGHTS LAG INSTALL IS GONE. WE DID IT BOYS.

Edit:

There have been no changes to the % damage on any of his moves. The knock back appears to be the same for all of his moves as well.

 

[LostinpinK]

YES!

Couldn't find any other changes for now. I don't have customs though.

 

[V23]

META KNIGHTS LAG INSTALL IS GONE. WE DID IT BOYS.

Edit:

There have been no changes to the % damage on any of his moves. The knock back appears to be the same for all of his moves as well.

Remind me? the thing with the cape?

 

[Ulevo]

Remind me? the thing with the cape?

The thing with the cape. Previously if you used the move to transition from air to ground or ground to air, even if you landed with the lag on the stage, it would retain it as if you didn't land, and would incur landing lag again next time you landed. It's gone now.

 

[V23]

The thing with the cape. Previously if you used the move to transition from air to ground or ground to air, even if you landed with the lag on the stage, it would retain it as if you didn't land, and would incur landing lag again next time you landed. It's gone now.

Huzaah! time to install update and do more bat testing

 

[warionumbah2]

**** yeah turn up, don't need to switch mains afterall since they basically fixed him like I said.

Edit: we also need to check the diddy MU again because now we can take him to helberd with no worries. the top tiers may have been toned down increasing MKs power indirectly.

 

[V23]

Someone can confirm our lovley bat got less startup lag on Tornado?

 

[Katakiri]

I finished testing his ending lag frames. It seems N-Air was buffed to having 18 landing lag frames rather than 20. Mach Tornado gave me mixed results on the start-up but its hitboxes are weird to begin with, I don't think it was changed

 

[LostinpinK]

Sonic, Diddy & Sheik may have to be rediscussed considering the nerfs they had. I think we now stand a chance against sonic.
I tested startup on nado on 3DS and wii u, seems the same to me.

 

[W.A.C.]

All of Meta Knight's free fall states now allow him to regrab the ledge. I am so happy right now. The thing I hated the most about this character has been changed. Thank god.

 

[warionumbah2]

Tall and light, he's around rosalina light since dtilt popped him off at 94%
Dash attack into tornado works o him (sucks because he's also lightlol)
Big hurtbox making him easy combo food

His upsmash killed me at 105% though, might be my poor DI.
dash attack into shuttle loop kills him at 96% no rage, hes basically what MK loves. Tall and light.

 

[AyeYoDeji]

correct me if i am wrong: tornado damage output was nerfed. it is no longer possible to get 23% no matter how hard u mash

 

[V23]

All of Meta Knight's free fall states now allow him to regrab the ledge. I am so happy right now. The thing I hated the most about this character has been changed. Thank god.

Confirmed confirmed? lets say i **** up and Cape with my face oppsite to the ledge i get snapped to it regardless :D?!


edit: i tested torando and i was practically kissing the ledge yet i didnt snap to it

_

correct me if i am wrong: tornado damage output was nerfed. it is no longer possible to get 23% no matter how hard u mash

22% best i got

 

[AyeYoDeji]

Confirmed confirmed? lets say i **** up and Cape with my face oppsite to the ledge i get snapped to it regardless :D?!

no. drill rush free fall animation still doesn't grab ledge in the first few frames.

 

[warionumbah2]

Tornado deals the same amount of damage.

 

[W.A.C.]

Confirmed confirmed? lets say i **** up and Cape with my face oppsite to the ledge i get snapped to it regardless :D?!

There's a period of time after using tornado, drill, and dimensional cape attack where you're spinning and can't grab the ledge. You used to be in that state permanently until you reach the ground and sometimes you were stuck in that state even after landing. The latter no longer happens and all those states eventually go into free fall states which should cause Meta Knight to suicide a hell of a lot less. This makes his drill considerably safer to use off stage and tornado safer to use off stage from a certain height. Using tornado and Dimensional Cape close to the edge will net you an SD though. Out of these three moves, his drill leaves that spinning falling animation the quickest. Before, none of these moves under these circumstances would allow you to regrab the edge.

 

[AyeYoDeji]

Tornado deals the same amount of damage.

tornado used to max out at 23% damage and i used to get it consistently. I've tried about 20 times now and i have only been able to get 22%

 

[Katakiri]

tornado used to max out at 23% damage and i used to get it consistently. I've tried about 20 times now and i have only been able to get 22%

It was that same way in the last patch. The 23% is very rare.

 

[W.A.C.]

I'll be blunt. I have been up for over 24 hours and I think I just simply forgot certain moves from a certain height allowed you to do that. Doing additional testing and it's clear I was too optimistic. W/e, ****. The frames where he's unable to regrab it are longer than I initially thought. Apologies for accidentally misleading people. I think I was just too hopeful with this patch. At least his forward air is a hell of a lot more useful now and that horrible Dimensional Cape glitch is gone.

 

[warionumbah2]

Dash attack into tornado works until Mewtwo hits 40%. So when the match starts abuse this combo.

 

[FlamingForce]

I'll be blunt. I have been up for over 24 hours and I think I just simply forgot certain moves from a certain height allowed you to do that. Doing additional testing and it's clear I was too optimistic. W/e, ****. The frames where he's unable to regrab it are longer than I initially thought. Apologies for accidentally misleading people. I think I was just too hopeful with this patch. At least his forward air is a hell of a lot more useful now and that horrible Dimensional Cape glitch is gone.

Fair got buffed?

 

[ItoI6]

i havent noticed any changes except the rco lag removal. i also dont think the matchup vs diddy and sheik got any better tbh, but sonic definitely is far better now.

 

[Float SSB]

@ warionumbah2
Do you SH tornado or just tornado?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

These changes have me excited.

 

[warionumbah2]

i havent noticed any changes except the rco lag removal. i also dont think the matchup vs diddy and sheik got any better tbh, but sonic definitely is far better now.

Why do you think the MUs for 2 nerfed top tiers isn't any better? Diddy's reward out of grabs is significantly worse and Sheiks bair apparently got weaker, but you probably still think they 70:30 us but we'll see what the future holds i suppose.

@ warionumbah2
Do you SH tornado or just tornado?

Just tornado.

 

[ItoI6]

mmmmm diddys reward out of grab is definitely not significantly worse. it is worse overall but not by much. let me explain the current state of diddys current grab game. diddy should always use upthrow, down throw is essentially useless and outclassed in every way.

upthrow does 8% as opposed to 6% and unlike down throw has a nearly completely vertical angle which makes it essentially un-diable.

0-10% upthrow-upairs does at least 19%
10-30% upthrow-bairx2 does 25%
30-100% upthrow-fair or bair does at least 17%
100-130% upthrow-upair is death

the problem with upthrow in the previous patch was that it had high base knockback, so past about 60% or so you could only get upthrow-upair on most characters and that would kill only within a small range of like 80-90% or so, but in this patch upthrow scales very slowly so theres a huge window of about 30% where upthrow-upair is an unavoidable, undiable kill. it also reliably lets you get fair out of upthrow, which is more damage than what down-throw upair was in the previous patch. diddy is doing less damage off of grabs on average sure but it isnt by much, and hes getting a large window at around 100-130% where upthrow-upair is unavoidable and kills as well which is pretty ********.

in addition to all that its not like diddy's neutral got worse, ****s still as amazing as ever. sheiks back air nerf sucks for her but shes still good. sonics kill throw getting removed is just unbelievably bad for him though, nothing else the top tiers lost even compares.

 

[W.A.C.]

Makes me wonder why they increased the knockback to down throw, but reduced the knockback to up throw. They should've just left his throws alone.

 

[V23]

Guys, what happend to sonic? update me quick!

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Taken from the Sonic boards:

• SDJ damage cut in half (3% now). SCJ still 6%;
• WHAT THEY NERFED ASDR DAMAGE HOW DID THEY EVEN KN- oh right, maybe due to nerfing SDJ they probably tweaked ASDR without even knowing it existed because our rolls are so well programmed;
• SDR max damage NEEEEEERFED: 7% instead of 10%
• SCR hits for 2% only (would occasionally hit 3% before)
• just when you thought they couldn't nerf it anymore.. ASC is a singlehit move now (ASDR too)
• wow, they've actually corrected the "throw item before landing after Spring" glitch
• seems easier to SDR->Bair now (no SDJ), even uncharged
• BSBS untouched
• Spring warp untouched
• turning around in a run doesn't make us go slower anymore, I think

Sonic acronyms for those who don't know (I play the character):

SDJ: Spin Dash Jump
SDR: Spin Dash Roll (Side-B)
SCR: Spin Charge Roll (Down-B)
ASC (Aerial Spin Charge)
ASDR Aerial Spin Dash Roll
BSBS (Brawl Spring Bug Stance) - Its the glitch where that causes Sonic to be stuck in SD if he doesnt touch the ground before using SD (its the main thing that makes Sonics SD randomly).

 

[V23]

Taken from the Sonic boards:



Sonic acronyms for those who don't know (I play the character):

SDJ: Spin Dash Jump
SDR: Spin Dash Roll (Side-B)
SCR: Spin Charge Roll (Down-B)
ASC (Aerial Spin Charge)
ASDR Aerial Spin Dash Roll
BSBS (Brawl Spring Bug Stance) - Its the glitch where that causes Sonic to be stuck in SD if he doesnt touch the ground before using SD (its the main thing that makes Sonics SD randomly).

Thx, since i dont have much exp against sonics i'd like to hear how these changes translate into the MU

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

In addition to these changes, it has been reported that Back-Throw's knockback has also been nerfed. This means that Sonic's damage output has been nerfed and his most reliable kill has also been nerfed. Sonic still wins in the neutral but the damage output difference isn't as significant and we can live longer reliably now. I still think Sonic will likely win but it's much more manageable at first glance.