Pamaros Stupid Rule

[Tero.]

At Smash Royale (Biggest german smash tournament ever, 27.07.08 ) there was a little discussion about a new rule.

The reason for this discussion was Pamaro, a player from germany, who took like 20 minutes to decide a counterpick stage. Some players lost their concentration while waiting, so we decided to make a new rule for future german tournaments which limits the ammount of a time a player has to choose their counterpick.

JDs version was: The player has 2 minutes to choose a stage. If the player is not able to select a stage in these 2 minutes, the opponent is allowed to pick a stage.

In the Back Room of the german boards we decided to change it a bit:

Pamaros Stupid Rule:
The looser of the last match has 3 minutes to decide on a counterpick stage. If 3 minutes are over a stage will be choosen randomly.

The majority of german tournaments will most likely include this rule in their ruleset (super lion tournament 3, the next big tournament in france allready included PSR in their ruleset as far as i know, but i dont know which version) but i would like to have some feedback from more european players.

- 3 minutes too long or to short ?
- what about toilet or smoking breaks ?
- etc.

Please excuse my bad english >_>

 

[Snail]

Uh, sounds somewhat logical. I can't imagine needing more than 3 minutes just to decide on a CP stage...

And people can think about a stage while pissing/smoking, too. Multitasking ftw ^^

 

[pockyD]

it shouldn't take longer than 30 seconds

if you don't know what stages you're good on // bad on before going into the tournament, then you aren't going to be able to pick a good counter-pick stage anyway, and you're just wasting peoples' time

 

[Frozenwave]

10 SECOND CHESS GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO

3 Minutes is abit long

 

[Marc]

Hehe, never thought this'd come up. A few minutes at most to counterpick a stage IMO, 3 seems okay.

- what about toilet or smoking breaks ?

A toilet break between matches should be fine, if it's quick. Be reasonable about it. I know it's allowed in chess to take a bathroom break, but this one time some player got really mad when his opponent went to the bathroom really often, which was a bit suspicious. We don't need a rule for this, it doesn't happen that often anyway.

Smoking in the middle of a set shouldn't be allowed, that's something that just isn't necessary (sorry JD). Taking a quick sip or bite should be fine, but going out to get a full meal while your opponent is waiting is a no-no. Use some common sense.

 

[Jarri]

The name of the rule...

"Pamaros' Stupid Rule tells you to counterpick a stage in less than 3 minutes or you're stupid and we'll name a rule after you!"

3 minutes sounds fine.

 

[Slhoka]

We discussed this point on the French boards, and even though we couldn't find a real agreement, we tought the best thing would be 5 mn (many players it was the minimum for them, and I tend to agree with them), or else the stage is chosen on random.

As for breaks, I think smoking should be banned. Going to toilets or taking a bite/a sip should obviously be tolerated, but starting your giant sandwich shouldn't. Anyway, as Marc says, it doesn't happen that often, so we don't need a rule. I just think it should be included within the time you're given to think about your counterpick. Because I don't think taking a **** requires an intellectual effort making you unable to think to your counterpick at the same time =p

 

[VEEN]

You can better go to the toilet or smoke a cigarette before the match. And 3 minutes is way too long. 30 seconds is better.

 

[kJaBsmasher]

I think 3 minutes would be best.
you have to think what your opponent can choose on wichich stage to get an advantage and calculate it.
So you need a little bit of time, but 3 minutes would be good to choose. longer is nogo in my opinion because if you need to think longer than that you are such a thouhtful type that you could have done so beforehand.

within 3minutes loser chooses stages
within next 30 secs winner chooses char
within next 30 secs loser chooses char.

if not done in time random.
that's my suggestion

 

[Tero.]

within 3minutes loser chooses stages
within next 30 secs winner chooses char
within next 30 secs loser chooses char.

if not done in time random.
that's my suggestion

I would agree to that.

Also:
If they cannot decide on a character they have to stay the character they played in the match before

 

[Helios]

I've had opponents wait for about 4-5 minutes to choose a stage, and god **** did it piss me off =P
Any more than 3 minutes is ridiculous.

 

[VEEN]

How do you want to time it?

 

[Professor Pro]

People should know their counterpicks and it should never take 20 minutes to pick a stage, it shouldnt take more then 2 minutes imo but I think 3 minutes should be alright for a limit.

How do you want to time it?

People should just use their common sense on how long someone is taken, it doesnt have to be timed.

 

[Professor Pro]

Double post.

 

[VEEN]

People should know their counterpicks and it should never take 20 minutes to pick a stage, it shouldnt take more then 2 minutes imo but I think 3 minutes should be alright for a limit.



People should just use their common sense on how long someone is taken, it doesnt have to be timed.

I completaly agree with it. People should know their counterpicks.

 

[Ryuker]

Between 3 and 5min is fine by me. I'm one of those players that needs to calm down for a minute and look at the possible counterpick variations in my head for a bit. But any longer then 5 min is getting too long. This should cut down on the inbetween coaching as well.
If this is actually enforced well as well then it shouldn't be long till any player get's used to this.

 

[Helios]

Will all of you just sit down for 5 minutes and look at your computer screens without doing anything, and try to realize how long of a time frame that really is?
Seriously, I'd rather have a thai ladyboy slap me with a fish in between matches than sit for 5 minutes staring at the stage selection screen.

 

[Professor Pro]

Will all of you just sit down for 5 minutes and look at your computer screens without doing anything, and try to realize how long of a time frame that really is?
Seriously, I'd rather have a thai ladyboy slap me with a fish in between matches than sit for 5 minutes staring at the stage selection screen.

Yeah 5 mintues is actually really long.
On average counterpicks only take like 30 secs - 1 min and less but the time limit should be 3 minutes but it shouldnt even get passed one minute imo.

 

[Frozenwave]

Counterpicks shouldnt take any longer then 30seconds really...3 mins to think of a stage thats good for you is bullocks :V

 

[Marc]

Between 3 and 5min is fine by me. I'm one of those players that needs to calm down for a minute and look at the possible counterpick variations in my head for a bit. But any longer then 5 min is getting too long. This should cut down on the inbetween coaching as well.
If this is actually enforced well as well then it shouldn't be long till any player get's used to this.

As Helios pointed out, 5 minutes is REALLY long. That's about as long as a match and time management is difficult enough as it is. Also, not everyone likes having to wait for several minutes between matches, might kill their "momentum" or whatever.

How does it cut down on coaching between matches? Five minutes is enough to give someone a step-by-step walkthrough. =/

 

[kJaBsmasher]

how about adding a survey to this thread about 3 minutes and everyone vitong for or against it to get a generel idea?
the reasons have been stated pretty good and I think anybody should be able to get a picture of his own from this.

 

[Ryuker]

@Marc:
That's why I said inbetween 3 and 5. Shloka stated 5 was the minimum he got from the discussion with the french about it. Kjab said 3 min for stage picking max and 30 for char selection per player. I just said that I'm fine with whatever time it is inbetween 3 and 5 min. Any longer then 5 min is too long.

Like everyone else seems to state here most counterpicking times don't go beyond 1 min by average. If I think about it actually adding 3 min inbetween each match would actually increase the average time we spent counterpicking. What if we said you get one 3 min per set per player and the next counterpicks have to be done in 1 min.

And you right about the coaching thing it's just that 5 min seemd so short and I thought coaching does tend to take quite long inbetween matches.

 

[Marc]

how about adding a survey to this thread about 3 minutes and everyone vitong for or against it to get a generel idea?
the reasons have been stated pretty good and I think anybody should be able to get a picture of his own from this.

I don't think you can add a poll to an existing thread. I'm fine with creating one though, I'll do it right away.

Like everyone else seems to state here most counterpicking times don't go beyond 1 min by average. If I think about it actually adding 3 min inbetween each match would actually increase the average time we spent counterpicking. What if we said you get one 3 min per set per player and the next counterpicks have to be done in 1 min.

Hm, that makes it more complicated, but it does save time. Still, I prefer keeping this simple.

And you right about the coaching thing it's just that 5 min seemd so short and I thought coaching does tend to take quite long inbetween matches.

In primary school we had an assignment to make us appreciate the length of a minute. You had to stand facing the class and talk until you thought you had spoken for a minute. Most people stopped around 40 seconds.

 

[Ace55]

Seriously, I'd rather have a thai ladyboy slap me with a fish in between matches than sit for 5 minutes staring at the stage selection screen.

I LOL'd so hard at this.

Five minutes is a bit overkill. 2/3 minutes should be more then enough.

 

[Helios]

I say, make it one minute. If the opponent hasn't chosen a stage within one minute, it'll be chosen randomly.

 

[J03]

imo 60 seconds is all you need. however a toilet break should be permitted at least once a set, its pretty unfair otherwise. As for a smoking break. just SAY your going to the loo >_>. or just allow one break per set on top of the 60 seconds. As long as there not taking the piss (excuse the pun) its pretty good times

 

[TelpeFion]

You don't need to go to the toilet/for a smoke IN THE MIDDLE OF A SET.

 

[Marc]

Sets can drag on and I've seen it happen on multiple occasions that someone wanted to go to the bathroom, I did it myself once or twice too. Of course, it doesn't happen often, but it should be allowed IMO. Smoking is something that can wait.

 

[Helios]

Yes, bathroom breaks can be excused, since there could be some very nasty consequenses were they not allowed.
Going out to get a smoke in between matches in the same set? NO WAY.

 

[ivootjes(nr18)]

I don't think we need rules for this, tournament hosts should know how to handle idiots. Not agreeing with the host = disqualified.

 

[J03]

i agree with myself. i also agree that smoking breaks can wait.

Helios im sure you remember mine and Jams escapades trying to sneak off for cigarettes at Rox4. requires time and effort for a ciggarette, and its unfair on your opponent (if there a non smoker) to come back reeking of smoke. Imo the only time a smoke should be allowed is in a best of 7 and only if your opponent agrees. Basically you can do anything (within reason) as long as your opponent agree's. But a toilet break is totally reasonable.

Ivootjes, first off how the hell do you pronounce a J right after a T, makes no sense to us English. Secondly this entire rule is just in case youve got an indecisive *** whose taking his sweet time. Its just to avoid arguements before they arise.

imo taadaa its decided

 

[Marc]

Heh, "tj" is pronounced like "ch" (like in the word "chart").