Palutena is MK 2.0?

[ToastMiller]

Hopefully I'm wrong... But based on the fact that Palutena is the ONLY normal character with 12 unique special moves, and also sakurai's recent posts alluding to her power....

Her Up Smash:

Spoiler

Pic of the day. I talked about an attack with a far reach in yesterday's post, but it didn't compare to Palutena's up smash attack! No joke, it reaches really far. It reached so far in this shot that even the rocketbarrels got blown up.

Heavenly light ( probably a special ):

Spoiler

That said, if we're talking just about range, even that can't beat Palutena's power, Heavenly Light. It has quite a damage field. However, this is a no-flinch attack, which means the opponents won't react to the damage!

These two moves look incredibly OP, particularly "that up smash", I mean look at that range o.o

And remembering Sakurai's past favoritism to his characters Pit and Metaknight I am very concerned about Palutena's overall power. More Importantly though, If she is totally over powered what are we going to do about it? I've witnessed lots of people being very exciting and hopeful that Palutena was going to be in the game. What if she's "too good" for competitive play? Will we ban her from tournaments and upset all the people who've worked hard mastering her, possibly turning those players away from smash? or will we mod the game like PM in order to nerf her like we did for MK? What will happen to sm4sh if such a big, powerful character enters the game? what if she's even worse than MK???

I obviously don't know how the finished Palutena will work but based on what I've seen so far I'm not to excited.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

We've dealt with Pikachu's Down B.. Palutena looks a bit heavy and slow smash wise.

Palutena looks fun but not broken, she gets some options sure. But we can't truly judge until the games come out.

 

[Banjodorf]

Honestly, having lots of range and lots of attacks doesn't come close to making her MK 2.0. He was fast, had 4 recovery specials, and lots of priority. So far, Palutena looks slow and sort of sluggish, but with lots of power and reach, which is exactly what I envisioned for her.

Come on people, don't jump this gun.

 

[ndayday]

Absolutely ridiculous to be talking about banning a character at this point.

Up Smash could very well be a Thunder. that second move doesn't make you flinch. damage is damage and it's certainly pretty ranged but we don't know cooldown and such.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

lineface.jpg

That move hits in front, isn't any stronger than any regular up smash, and could suffer some post lag

And heavenly light could be straight up useless if it takes you too long to act out of it.

So please, stop claiming character are overpowered before you actually play them.

 

[Pazzo.]

She'll be fine. This isn't Brawl, where Sakurai did most of the balancing on his own. He now has a team from Namco Bandai to help out for SSB4.

 

[im just peachy]

first of all how dare you, she's the goddess of light
second of all you have no idea how she plays just yet
yes that's her up smash but
1. We don't know how strong it is or how much damage is caused by it
And 2. We also know that she's incredibly slow, so just like all the slow
heavy characters, she will be powerful to make up for the speed loss.

And yes I know about her light speed move, but that's considered a move,
So if you want to move fast as palutena you're going to have to sacrifice a move slot just for that.

His shouldn't even be a topic because she's great and awesome

 

[ToastMiller]

first of all how dare you, she's the goddess of light
second of all you have no idea how she plays just yet
yes that's her up smash but
1. We don't know how strong it is or how much damage is caused by it
And 2. We also know that she's incredibly slow, so just like all the slow
heavy characters, she will be powerful to make up for the speed loss.

And yes I know about her light speed move, but that's considered a move,
So if you want to move fast as palutena you're going to have to sacrifice a move slot just for that.

His shouldn't even be a topic because she's great and awesome

I'm not trying to say shes dumb or anything and of she works that perfectly fine with me.
Honestly not trying to say we need to get rid of her O.O

 

[im just peachy]

I'm not trying to say shes dumb or anything and of she works that perfectly fine with me.
Honestly not trying to say we need to get rid of her O.O

Palutena forgives you

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm not trying to say shes dumb or anything and of she works that perfectly fine with me.
Honestly not trying to say we need to get rid of her O.O

Well, just basically to sum it up, I don't think there's any chance of her being OP with the current kit. In fact, my initial thoughts are that fast projectile characters like Greninja and Diddy are going to give her alot of trouble.

I'm more worried for her than not, but excited about pushing her metagame forward.

 

[Hong]

Palutena is only scary because you are unfamiliar with the character.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wouldn't exactly say she's going to be broken, and that's mainly because her moveset focuses a lot on keeping the opponent at a distance. Her attacks need commitment, since the end lag means that whiff options are limited, and it means she can't handle pressure.

Though I can see her being a skill gate character, particularly for novices that don't have the experience with using the defensive options like shields or dodges.

In general, she reminds me of Dormammu.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I wouldn't exactly say she's going to be broken, and that's mainly because her moveset focuses a lot on keeping the opponent at a distance. Her attacks need commitment, since the end lag means that whiff options are limited, and it means she can't handle pressure.

Though I can see her being a skill gate character, particularly for novices that don't have the experience with using the defensive options like shields or dodges.

In general, she reminds me of Dormammu.

She may very well be the Exdeath of this game, for those of you familiar how he played in Final Fantasy Dissidia and its sequel.

VERY hard to learn. VERY rewarding if you did

 

[Banjodorf]

...Which is awesome, because Dormammu, aside from Morrigan, was my absolute favorite character in MvC3.

So much fun.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Banjodorf and Xenoblaze gave some food for thought, but still, this is just way too early to judge up. I hope though she'll be decent to better at least.

 

[ECHOnce]

We really just don't know enough about it's mechanics to assess whether it's OP or not from just a picture. As far as we know, it could have just as much %/KB as Samus' U-smash - several weak hits into a final mediocre-ish stronger hit. It's range could be affected by the charge - immediate Palutena U-smash laser might be just as tall as she is. We really don't know enough about it yet to start judging her.

 

[FrostShock]

Palutena uses an uncharged u-smash against DK in her trailer. Going by that, it doesn't look like it has any knock-back, but instead carries the opponent into the air. That could change when it's fully charged, but range at the cost of knockback seems like a reasonable trade off. Not to mention, it only hits on one side of her, so her back will be open.

And do I really need to explain the drawbacks of Heavenly Light? It doesn't cause any flinching, and Palutena is left completely open while
using it. Yeah, you'll probably be able to tack on a nice bit of damage in 2v2
if your partner can juggle well enough. But in 1v1 or FFA, it's only use will probably be against people who are getting too comfy in the air.

All in all, Palutena's strengths are in anti-air and zoning. A ground based character with decent projectiles and rushdown will probably do fine against her.

 

[KeketheBasedCat]

Guys what if they confirm Captain Falcon and he has a full screen, shield breaking, one-hit-kill falcon punch and he can't be grabbed and he has 15 jumps and always has the option to use his final smash and all of his attacks have transcendent priority. It could happen, you know since Sakuri said

I like Cpt. Falcon

and since Pit was so OP in Brawl...
We'd have to ban him or patch him!

 

[_Darkpit_]

Pit wasn't OP in Brawl. His range was very short. ( For example King Dedede would defeat him very easily )

I think Palutenas heavenly light is weak. It makes damage but:

1. It doesn't have knockback
2. Above Palutena there is very much of taken room, but not from the side.
3. Fast characters can reach Palutena well enough.
4. I'm not sure but it seems that Palutena can't move not anywhere.
5. If the 4th is true, some characters could use projectiles or Kirby can use down b. ( If there is no a plattform. ) Ike, Marth, Little Mac could use counter and so on. ^^ Especially counter would be easy to use against Palutena ( heavenly light is an enduring attack. ^^ )


I would like to know what happens with Bob Ombs or Koopa shells, if Palutena uses heavenly light. ^^ Heavenly light could be very well to catch the smashball.

 

[Virum]

Every time I see a thread like this I want to backhand whoever makes it. There are so many unknown factors about this character, how her moves work, how they tie together overall with her moveset, how her physics are, how much damage her moves deal etc that trying to create or even speculate some kind of assertion about how "OP" she'll be and whether or not she'll be banned is silly. You'd think from examples such as Little Mac people would have learnt by now that it's way too early to assume and we can't draw too much in the way of a reasonable balance assumption until we actually get our hands on the game (and even then I'd still argue that it will take a fair bit of time before we come to any proper conclusion).

Now don't get me wrong I've no qualms with general speculation at all, but trying to argue whether or not something will be OP from two moves that we don't even know everything about is just silly. Let us be patient :]

 

[Admiral Pit]

Threads like these here are a great embarrassment to me and us true (and sensible) Palutena supporters. The game's not even out yet, let alone finalized and another thread like this is here on the Palutena forums!? If I have to go down and check the move a hundred times to gather as much data as I can to prove that Palutena is not OP'd (til proven otherwise after the game comes out and all those "tier list" episodes happen), I'll do that. Let's start with the first 2 moves there to show you what I can do with data and knowledge.

U-smash
Pros
-High vertical range
-May be able to pierce through higher platforms or walls (Not confirmed yet, but won't be surprised if it was possible)

Cons
-Does not protect Palutena from behind
-May be a laggy move (not certain yet)


Heavenly Light
Pros
-Amazing range
-Potentially more effective in areas with walls or ceilings that take opponents a longer time to reach Palutena (provided the move goes through walls and ceilings)

Cons
-Does not make opponents flinch
-If it does not affect certain projectiles, that can easily break through and hit Palutena (not certain which projectiles yet)


Keep in mind that things are subjective to change as the game is not finalized yet. Remember Pit's arrow pose on the Smash website compared to the one on 10/1/13 where his shooting pose is different? That's just one example of change.


Again, we wait til the game's out, then wait some months til the first tier list for some research, and then a year or 2 as the game develops. After that, then we'll find out how Palutena is. Til then, such early judgments of OP-ness should not be happening, let alone the existence of this thread. I'm sorry if some feel like I'm coming out a bit harsh, but it just angers me to see these and other various threads here.

 

[KeketheBasedCat]

Pit wasn't OP in Brawl. His range was very short. ( For example King Dedede would defeat him very easily )

das da joke. The OP said that sakuri is known to make his favorite OP (using Pit and MK as an example). Also I think the general consensus was that Pit and Dedede went relatively even (http://smashboards.com/threads/match-up-time-king-dedede.267529/) but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Lugubrious]

I would definitely say that she won't be Meta Knight 2.0. MK's power came from speed, multi-hitting attacks, lack of recovery frames, and abuse of the gliding mechanic. As far as I can tell, Palutena is at the other end of the spectrum, being a heavyweight and not all that fast. Having some really good attacks isn't enough to bring a character to banned level.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

What?????
If anything Palutena looks BAD!

Have you seen her running speed? Slow as constipation.

Her specials all look extremely basic without any follow up potential... (other than Lightweight)

She looks as OP as a Goldeen.

I honestly don't see any Sakurai bias like how people always say.... Its kinda silly to think that since Kirby is the worst in Melee.

Pikachu's down B has as much range as her up smash... I don't see why thats such a big deal. She's going to be heavy and slow. No good characters are heavy and slow. Its whatever though.

I may have exaggerated how bad she looks but still... This game looks balanced imo.

 

[_Darkpit_]

What?????
If anything Palutena looks BAD!

Have you seen her running speed? Slow as constipation.

Her specials all look extremely basic without any follow up potential... (other than Lightweight)

She looks as OP as a Goldeen.

I honestly don't see any Sakurai bias like how people always say.... Its kinda silly to think that since Kirby is the worst in Melee.

Pikachu's down B has as much range as her up smash... I don't see why thats such a big deal. She's going to be heavy and slow. No good characters are heavy and slow. Its whatever though.

I may have exaggerated how bad she looks but still... This game looks balanced imo.

Lightweight makes Palutena faster, but the knockback against her is stronger or she gets more damage. ^^ ( In Kid Icarus Uprising you'll find both of the disadvantages of lightweight )

das da joke. The OP said that sakuri is known to make his favorite OP (using Pit and MK as an example). Also I think the general consensus was that Pit and Dedede went relatively even (http://smashboards.com/threads/match-up-time-king-dedede.267529/) but that's neither here nor there.

Why do you think Pit is his favourite character? I think Ganondorf is his favourite charakter. He mains Ganondorf and prefers to play him.

 

[Downdraft]

OP, we don't even know Palutena's default specials.

I'm hoping Reflect is a default special, for it will help against projectile dependent or rush-down characters.
Notice that Little Mac fell when he hit the barrier in Palutena's trailer, so Reflect seems impenetrable.
If she does turn out to be an anti-air character, then Reflect will force opponents to slow down or jump.
Rather than speculate any further, I will wait until the game is released in America before jumping the gun.

 

[KeketheBasedCat]

Why do you think Pit is his favourite character? I think Ganondorf is his favourite charakter. He mains Ganondorf and prefers to play him.

I don't. I was poking fun at the Op's post in which he said:

And remembering Sakurai's past favoritism to his characters Pit and Metaknight I am very concerned about Palutena's overall power.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Lightweight makes Palutena faster, but the knockback against her is stronger or she gets more damage. ^^ ( In Kid Icarus Uprising you'll find both of the disadvantages of lightweight )





Why do you think Pit is his favourite character? I think Ganondorf is his favourite charakter. He mains Ganondorf and prefers to play him.

I know (I love that game 101% that game).

Thats why its going to be a good move. It will be good for getting combos.

I always use that power haphazardly. I have an OHKO Melee Dash attack Upperdash Arm and I run around with light weight and Aries Armor lol. Fun stuff killing people online like that haha.

 

[ECHOnce]

She looks as OP as a Goldeen.

Everyone should know from their Melee items-on days that she's OP as heck if she crits lol. Don't underestimate the Goldeen god tier.

 

[Farorae]

Come on, the game's not even out yet, it's way to earlier to tell if she's the next MK. Hell for all we know she might even be hyrule tier.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

...IMO, TC deserves to be hit in the head with a toaster for coming up with this topic. No one in their right judgement makes an affirmation like this without haven't even tried the goddamn character.

 

[Hong]

Now now, while I don't agree with OPs clause, no user deserves to be hit with anything or by anyone for voicing their opinion.

Plenty of folks have been able to respond to this rather bold and somewhat droll claim in a civil manner. So can you.

 

[_Darkpit_]

I know (I love that game 101% that game).

Thats why its going to be a good move. It will be good for getting combos.

I always use that power haphazardly. I have an OHKO Melee Dash attack Upperdash Arm and I run around with light weight and Aries Armor lol. Fun stuff killing people online like that haha.

That was good xD. Kid Icarus Uprising is the best game by Nintendo. ^^

I'm very curious how strong is her final smash. It looks very impressive. Samus' finalsmash VS Palutenas