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Pac-Man the most OP/Annoying CPU?

Derpiology

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I usually play vs. mode against CPUs when I'm bored (level 9 most of the time, level 7 because apparently it's the most humanlike). What I've noticed is that Pac-Man has been the hardest CPU for me to face.

This is referring to both levels 7 and 9. He usually uses his neutral-b or down-b all the time, and is VERY dodgy. For someone who uses fox and usually plays aggressively, this annoys me very much when my advances are stopped by a fruit or a dodge just to hit me with more fruit.

Does anyone else have a CPU that annoys the crap out of them?
 

Jay-kun

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No offense, but nobody (possibly just me) plays CPU's when they are "bored". Also, since CPU's are crap, they can't annoy you (in general) because they are crap. yeh ik i never answered ur question but it seems kind of nooby D:
 

Derpiology

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No offense, but nobody (possibly just me) plays CPU's when they are "bored". Also, since CPU's are crap, they can't annoy you (in general) because they are crap. yeh ik i never answered ur question but it seems kind of nooby D:
Yeah I just kinda play casually. I'm not good that good at the game. I'm at a level were I can destroy CPUs, but can still get completely rekt by people in For Glory.
 

COLINBG

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I do play CPUs when I'm bored too ;p

But I don't have trouble with them, I usually just use whatever character I feel like using, put a random lvl 8 CPU, and try to beat it the fastest I can while taking the least damage I can. Sonic is annoying due to the nature of the character but that's about it.
 

COLINBG

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@ Derpiology Derpiology

Concerning your Pacman problem, I've always thought he was really easy, but that might be because I know his moves and options so well.

However, Fox is probably one of the worst MUs for Pac. Just reflect his fruits/hydrants instead of shielding them, it's that simple and they shouldn't be too much of a problem. Play more agressively than you usually do (that doesn't mean unsafe, it's easy to confuse the two), don't give him time to breathe. That's basically how you want to play against a real Pacman player, and it's kind of what you want to do against CPUs, excepts CPUs are easier. Note that you can find a Fox/Pac MU discussion in this thread, and I haven't looked for it, but there's probably something similar in the Fox forum if you want more advice.

CPUs in general (it's much more apparent at lvl 9) tend to base their whole game on punishing. An interesting experiment is trying not to attack: choose any character on both sides, and simply shield/run away/jump over their attacks. You can go on like this several minutes without getting hit at all, because when you don't attack they don't know what to do. They can read inputs sometimes (or seems like it), so if you do unsafe things they will generally punish, and that's also why you can't bait the airdodges. If you don't input anything, they won't airdodge because there's no danger, and if you input something the CPU will perform near perfect air dodges if he can. Overall, they're great defensively, but suck in other areas.

There's ways to abuse these mechanics against Pac. The CPUS lack logic. Controlling the stage by setting Hydrants/Trampolines/using the right Fruits at the right moments is vital when you play Pacman, and the CPU cannot adapt and think of what is best in the long term, they simply react to immediate situations. This means his zoning/stage control game will be much worse than a real player.

I hope this helps, and you can apply this with every other character against any other CPU. If you still have trouble we can try to help you, but I don't think CPUs are that difficult when you learn their AI and master your own gameplay.
 
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Jay-kun

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Well maybe CF was a bad example.. but characters that are preferably all melee and have lots of inputs like maybe if you or your CPU opponent was Fox(??). So I think it is better to play CPU's depending on your character and your opponent.
 

COLINBG

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Not really. CPUs are great for learning basics when you first play the game and for passing time if you don't have access to a real player/don't want to lag/want to play casually, but not for training.

The advantage with CPU training is that since they punish a lot of things, you can learn what is safe and what is not. This way, you can really see what moves work in what situations, and if you keep getting punished by doing a certain move/action against a lvl 9 CPU, there's a good chance a real player will punish you too. Since they're programmed to respond to your actions and punish what they can, they'll likely punish you more than a real player will (but this is not necessarily true, a top player will punish you every time). Keep in mind that they might not choose the best punish option; they might for example do a smash attack when a grab would have been better, so it primarily teaches you what is safe instead of how to react after being punished.

The other good thing is it lets you practice combos on moving targets, so you can combo real players better because you learn to set up your combo starters.

That's about it for the advantages.

The primary problem is that they can't think. They don't learn to adapt to different situations. If you keep punishing one of their moves, they'll keep doing it. You're fighting a robot, literally. As I said, they don't think about the consequences of their actions on the long term, so they don't know how to properly control the stage. They don't know how to combo effectively. These are all things a real player can do, that you won't have a clue how to deal with if you haven't experienced facing it.

Since you have to actually be able to win against them, CPUs are programmed to do mistakes. Like not shielding when they need to, throwing out unsafe attacks, or rolling/approaching when they're not supposed to. Good players don't do it as much, so facing one will seem a lot harder.

Another bad thing about practicing against CPUs is that you get bad habits. For example, since they air dodge a lot of things, it's harder to practice following up with aerials, or baiting air dodges, and you might gain the habit of not doing it. Also, they get out of grabs super fast, so if you play too much against CPUs you might gain the habit of never doing pummels.

All this means you can't practice your technical skills effectively (because they do things a human cannot do, and it limits your gameplay), and you can't practice the psychological side of the game at all, which is probably the most important thing to get good at. If that makes any sense.

I'm sure there are more bad aspects of training with a CPU. Sure, it's not lost training, but you should always remember not to develop bad habits because of it, and keep in mind it's far from optimal training. If you want to simply have fun or practice for casual matches against friends, go for it, but if you're serious about smash and getting better, try not to play too much against them.
 
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