Pac-Man Confirmed for D-Tier - How does this affect us?

[NimbusSpark]

Well, according to the SWF Community Tier List, the D Tier is has now been finished in terms of voting, and it's been confirmed - Pac-Man is now at the bottom of the D Tier, whilst making him lean towards the lower-middle part of the tier list.

How would this affect us Pac-Mains? Do you like where Pac-Man is? If not, where would he be? That are the questions I'm here to ask you all in this thread.

In personal opinion, I don't mind the fact that Pac is now in the lower-middle part of the tier list. In fact, it's a bit beneficial for him. Pac-Man being one of the more underrated characters in Smash Bros can make other players drop their guard against him - and when they find out about the fact that Pac is actually good, boom, all aboard the Pac-Man bandwagon. He'll then most likely rise in the tier list around as sharply as Sonic or Wolf did in Brawl.

Also, note that this is just the first Community Tier list. Smash Bros 4 is still in its early stages, so the tier list can and will develop over time. Please don't let this become a massive thread for hate comments about the tier list. This is meant for discussion about Pac-Man's position, not for outrageous hate comments.

 

[Spirst]

I wouldn't put much stock, if any at all, in that tier list seeing as how it's a community voted tier list in a game less than 6 months old and most people just upvoted their mains/downvoted characters they don't know much about (and Pac-Man is a character few people know much about). I personally don't agree with the placement at all and find it quite laughable but I'm not expecting much from it. Official tier lists tend to be formed by a smash backroom of sorts for a reason since the players in it are involved in the tournament setting which is where tier lists truly matter. Not to be condescending towards those who take part in the community tier list voting, but it's safe to assume a number of the opinions there simply aren't well-educated enough for the list to be considered legitimate.

Basically, just take it with a grain of salt. Pac-Man is still a good character despite what that list says.

 

[SPoitter]

Doesn't really affect us much, but in regards to his placement that's how I think it should be. Pac Man does not have many options, he can be destroyed by certain characters, & his whole strategy is maneuvering through the opposition's offense while creating your own traps & defense. Pac Man's options are -
Camp The Ledge
Put down a Hydrant
Mix up with Trampoline
The main problem with the whole agenda is how this can be exploited, Pac Man has a very polarizing air game as none of his aerials are suited for anything but utility & combos which isn't bad but his whole move set is just missing kill options & regular option selects. Pac Man is mostly just technical, he doesn't have many tricks to save him other than Bonus Fruit & Hydrant setups but he's just a mixed bag. His customs are also very inadequate.

 

[LanceStern]

Pac Man doesn't have many options? What do you mean?

I think that's too low for Pac Man, but it's just the start of tiers so our results will just have to prove otherwise

 

[Jay-kun]

Dude, who even cares..?

 

[dragontamer]

First iteration tier list == lulz every time.

If PacMan really is low tier, then low-tier is quite playable in this game.

 

[Jay-kun]

Once again, the only way this could affects us is mentally and even so not so much. Maybe less Pacman's on For Glory? We all know most tier lists are not based on real evidence... really the only thing we can look to are tier lists on tournament sets and Conquest. So why do we care..?

 

[Gam3rALO]

We might see less Pac Mans in general because of an irrelevant tier list. I guess us pac mains have to show the community who the real character is that eats the competition up.

 

[Jay-kun]

We might see less Pac Mans in general because of an irrelevant tier list. I guess us pac mains have to show the community who the real character is that eats the competition up.

But.. isn't that a good thing... :/

 

[Lag Chan]

Not going to lie, that tier list is garbage. Ike is higher than Marth, DK is higher than Dedede, and there's a lot of other kneejerk reactions in that list. Really, you shouldn't care about some early tier list that is going to be invalid in a couple of months time anyway. Trust me, Pac Man is not as bad as that tier list says he is, though this is just going by what Pac players I've been up against rather than my own personal experience.

 

[Gam3rALO]

But.. isn't that a good thing... :/

Yup!

 

[SPoitter]

Not going to lie, that tier list is garbage. Ike is higher than Marth, DK is higher than Dedede, and there's a lot of other kneejerk reactions in that list. Really, you shouldn't care about some early tier list that is going to be invalid in a couple of months time anyway. Trust me, Pac Man is not as bad as that tier list says he is, though this is just going by what Pac players I've been up against rather than my own personal experience.

not to mention G&W should be mid tier ;~;

 

[Jay-kun]

not to mention G&W should be mid tier ;~;

haha ur funny it all depends on who is playing him

 

[NimbusSpark]

not to mention G&W should be mid tier ;~;

That's honestly a bit biased.
Almost all the characters in Smash 4 these days are in fact viable in some way, but you providing a message saying that Mr. Game & Watch should be mid-tier without any evidence basically means you're just stating your opinion without having any facts to support or prove it, thus feeling more like a waste of a post than a way to influence us that he should in fact be raised to the middle tiers.
Whilst I must agree that Mr. Game & Watch is a pretty decent, fun and quirky character (if only I can actually land a 9 with Judge on someone ), you can't just go around saying he should be in 'insert tier here' without solid proof or facts. Next time, do your research before making a post like that.

 

[Jay-kun]

That's honestly a bit biased.
Almost all the characters in Smash 4 these days are in fact viable in some way, but you providing a message saying that Mr. Game & Watch should be mid-tier without any evidence basically means you're just stating your opinion without having any facts to support or prove it, thus feeling more like a waste of a post than a way to influence us that he should in fact be raised to the middle tiers.
Whilst I must agree that Mr. Game & Watch is a pretty decent, fun and quirky character (if only I can actually land a 9 with Judge on someone ), you can't just go around saying he should be in 'insert tier here' without solid proof or facts. Next time, do your research before making a post like that.

only a little. but then again my post applies to all characters while if i focused on GnW, you would only know the reasoning for his position.... so ur welcome i gave everyone the secret of tier lists!:3

oh yeah, when i stated that it depended on the one playing him, since most "real" tier lists will be based on tourney results.. perhaps there will be people who cannot go to tournies, so then they are cast out of the desiscion of their chracter's position.
btw is tourney short for tournament herp derp

 

[Lag Chan]

not to mention G&W should be mid tier ;~;

Personally G&W is right where he should be for the moment. I'm probably biased since I don't like the changes they made to him in this game (In Melee and Brawl he was a glass cannon, in this game he's just another speedster character), but given what I've seen and used with him right now, he feels about right in the low tier area.

 

[Nu~]

G&W mid tier, but Pac-Man in low tier?
I didn't know we had comedians in this thread.

 

[Reaper Talk]

It doesn't affect us at all, if you like Pac Man, keep playing him
People who listen to tiers before a year has passed after the game is released are fools
With customs on, we will separate the Pac-Boys from the Pac Men

 

[Timbers]

don't trust community tier lists because the community is full of scrubbitydubs. wait for our backroom overlords to come together and spit one out.

also the comments in this thread are just a general cluster**** oh my god lol

 

[Jay-kun]

G&W mid tier, but Pac-Man in low tier?
I didn't know we had comedians in this thread.

but- Mr.Watch beats Pacman.

It doesn't affect us at all, if you like Pac Man, keep playing him
People who listen to tiers before a year has passed after the game is released are fools
With customs on, we will separate the Pac-Boys from the Pac Men

oh ho ho ho. ho ho. hooo..

One thing. I actually agree that Pacman is D-tier. He is the best/ one of the best mid-range fighters/ mid-ranger neutral game fighter. Haha, the problem with that is that mid-range is not really an option as either your opponent rushes or camps.
But the most important thing to note is his recovery. His side-b and up-b can be gimped too easily. Opponents in FG are even starting to catch on.

 

[Nu~]

One thing. I actually agree that Pacman is D-tier. He is the best/ one of the best mid-range fighters/ mid-ranger neutral game fighter. Haha, the problem with that is that mid-range is not really an option as either your opponent rushes or camps.
But the most important thing to note is his recovery. His side-b and up-b can be gimped too easily. Opponents in FG are even starting to catch on.

Yeah sure...
No one can reliably camp from the long range in this game so I don't really understand your point there. Also, our close range game is actually exceptional with galaxian combos, quick attacks, and a combo breaking nair.

About recovery...
Stop being predictable. Mix up your recovery. Turn your side b in different ways or use only a short side B.
And learn to use up B wisely, don't recover low with it unless you immediately grip the ledge.

 

[Jay-kun]

Yeah sure...
No one can reliably camp from the long range in this game so I don't really understand your point there. Also, our close range game is actually exceptional with galaxian combos, quick attacks, and a combo breaking nair.

About recovery...
Stop being predictable. Mix up your recovery. Turn your side b in different ways or use only a short side B.
And learn to use up B wisely, don't recover low with it unless you immediately grip the ledge.

haha haha (duck hunt) hahhahHAHHAHA (link) AHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

yes mixups work, but they are by using aerials or throwing fruit. a good opponent will just wait until you have gone through those options and punish :/ besides, the startup on side-b is solo noticeable, and up-b is obviously going to be used near/under the ledge, so that is ruled out. characters with meteor smashes just wreck. about immediately gripping the ledge, that is are only safe option.. we have to keep our double jump, but since Pacman has great aerial game, that is a loss.

 

[Nu~]

haha haha (duck hunt) hahhahHAHHAHA (link) AHHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

yes mixups work, but they are by using aerials or throwing fruit. a good opponent will just wait until you have gone through those options and punish :/ besides, the startup on side-b is solo noticeable, and up-b is obviously going to be used near/under the ledge, so that is ruled out. characters with meteor smashes just wreck. about immediately gripping the ledge, that is are only safe option.. we have to keep our double jump, but since Pacman has great aerial game, that is a loss.

Lol if you are getting camped out from the other side of the stage by duck hunt and link's slow ass projectiles, that is your problem. (Here's a tip "POWER shield"!)

Yeah, because your opponent has all the time to wait through your attacks. You act like we are using mario or someone with literally one recivery option.
Opponents can't meteor smash through trampoline, and you can actually up B on reaction to break out of it and get back to the stage.

But seriously, if you think that out recovery is what will blow us all the way to D tier...that's pretty sad.
Let's say goodbye to diddy, mario, and captain falcon. You all suck now because of one problem.

 

[Jay-kun]

Lol if you are getting camped out from the other side of the stage by duck hunt and link's slow *** projectiles, that is your problem. (Here's a tip "POWER shield"!)

Yeah, because your opponent has all the time to wait through your attacks. You act like we are using mario or someone with literally one recivery option.
Opponents can't meteor smash through trampoline, and you can actually up B on reaction to break out of it and get back to the stage.

But seriously, if you think that out recovery is what will blow us all the way to D tier...that's pretty sad.
Let's say goodbye to diddy, mario, and captain falcon. You all suck now because of one problem.

Little Mac. just stop

 

[Nu~]

Little Mac. just stop

Yeah, because Mac has an amazing air game doesn't he?

 

[Jay-kun]

Yeah, because Mac has an amazing air game doesn't he?

but that wasn't even the point... and it doesn't matter anyway... good aerial game doesn't mean we get knocked offstage less.

 

[crashbfan]

Not going to lie, that tier list is garbage. Ike is higher than Marth, DK is higher than Dedede, and there's a lot of other kneejerk reactions in that list. Really, you shouldn't care about some early tier list that is going to be invalid in a couple of months time anyway. Trust me, Pac Man is not as bad as that tier list says he is, though this is just going by what Pac players I've been up against rather than my own personal experience.

Ike is better than Marth. DK is better than Dedede. You really shot yourself in the foot there. that tier list is really trash though.

 

[Nu~]

but that wasn't even the point... and it doesn't matter anyway... good aerial game doesn't mean we get knocked offstage less.

Mac is bad (debatably) because he has a polarizing game. He is great on the ground, but his disadvantage is one of the worst in the game. Having 1/2 of your stage game sucks hard. Now that that is explained...

Unless we are getting knocked off the stage 24/7 our gimp able recovery won't mean much in the long run. You are over exaggerating our problems and using cop out replies.
Must I give that captain falcon example again? Or better yet, ness?
Because Ness's up B is kinda similar to our side B (only more punishable)

 

[BSP]

Pac-Man won't ever break top 15 IMO. When the first decent list comes out, he'll probably be 16-25 or so, and then probably sit there for a while.

 

[Jay-kun]

Mac is bad (debatably) because he has a polarizing game. He is great on the ground, but his disadvantage is one of the worst in the game. Having 1/2 of your stage game sucks hard. Now that that is explained...

Unless we are getting knocked off the stage 24/7 our gimp able recovery won't mean much in the long run. You are over exaggerating our problems and using cop out replies.
Must I give that captain falcon example again? Or better yet, ness?
Because Ness's up B is kinda similar to our side B (only more punishable)

1. ur first point is irrelevant
2. we are knocked off at high %'s not 24/7

Pac-Man won't ever break top 15 IMO. When the first decent list comes out, he'll probably be 16-25 or so, and then probably sit there for a while.

dude we should be offended. u don't think any of us Pac mains can make tournament finalist/ or Grand Winner??

 

[BSP]

dude we should be offended. u don't think any of us Pac mains can make tournament finalist/ or Grand Winner??

To me, the Tier List tells you which characters are most likely and able to consistently win or at least make top 8 or 16 at large tournaments like nationals. It doesn't say anything about what you can and can't do with a character. If you're better than everyone else, you can probably win with anyone.

I'm just saying that 5 years down the road, I don't see Pac-Man consistently placing top 8/16 in nationals, but that doesn't mean he's bad. He'd be OK in that sense.

 

[Nu~]

1. ur first point is irrelevant
2. we are knocked off at high %'s not 24/7

You tried to bring up a poor example of a low tier due to bad recovery, I refute it, my point is somehow irrelevant.
OK

2.) obviously. I'm just saying that it isn't a big enough issue to cry over

 

[Jay-kun]

To me, the Tier List tells you which characters are most likely and able to consistently win or at least make top 8 or 16 at large tournaments like nationals. It doesn't say anything about what you can and can't do with a character. If you're better than everyone else, you can probably win with anyone.

I'm just saying that 5 years down the road, I don't see Pac-Man consistently placing top 8/16 in nationals, but that doesn't mean he's bad. He'd be OK in that sense.

ok ok srry about that i misunderstood. but what can we do about that!!!!

 

[SPoitter]

G&W mid tier, but Pac-Man in low tier?
I didn't know we had comedians in this thread.

ye that's the joke

 

[Jay-kun]

You tried to bring up a poor example of a low tier due to bad recovery, I refute it, my point is somehow irrelevant.
OK

2.) obviously. I'm just saying that it isn't a big enough issue to cry over

1) but.. bad recovery can amount to a whole or up to 2 letter drops in a tier list....
2) i cry ;-;

 

[SPoitter]

@ Nu~ actually tbh i'd put Pacman & G&W both at Mid-Low, almost semi-viable

 

[Jay-kun]

ye that's the joke

says the guy with the Goku (?) profile pic

@ Nu~ actually tbh i'd put Pacman & G&W both at Mid-Low, almost semi-viable

G+W is special

 

[SPoitter]

That's honestly a bit biased.
Almost all the characters in Smash 4 these days are in fact viable in some way, but you providing a message saying that Mr. Game & Watch should be mid-tier without any evidence basically means you're just stating your opinion without having any facts to support or prove it, thus feeling more like a waste of a post than a way to influence us that he should in fact be raised to the middle tiers.
Whilst I must agree that Mr. Game & Watch is a pretty decent, fun and quirky character (if only I can actually land a 9 with Judge on someone ), you can't just go around saying he should be in 'insert tier here' without solid proof or facts. Next time, do your research before making a post like that.

here are my reasons for saying he was mid tier
For one, G&W is a a relatively fast character, chef is one of the most broken projectiles in some MUs like vs Peach because all her options are negated except for jumping over the sausages, jumping over G&W is a terrible idea.
G&W just has a lot of options & things to take care of, his only problem is the Wario & ROB matchup where it's pretty much 35-65

says the guy with the Goku (?) profile pic

hey man legacy of goku 2 was legit

 

[Jay-kun]

here are my reasons for saying he was mid tier
For one, G&W is a a relatively fast character, chef is one of the most broken projectiles in some MUs like vs Peach because all her options are negated except for jumping over the sausages, jumping over G&W is a terrible idea.
G&W just has a lot of options & things to take care of, his only problem is the Wario & ROB matchup where it's pretty much 35-65

even more , in Smash4 he can control where the sausages go

 

[BSP]

ok ok srry about that i misunderstood. but what can we do about that!!!!

We can try to be creative and address his weaknesses, but there's some things we can't do anything about:

All of his fruits can be caught, held, or used against us, and they are very easily clanked with. This will get worse with time once people realize how Pac-Man works.

Our hydrants minus Dire can be used against us. Yes, we can be smart and not place them stupidly, but the issue is still there. Launched Hydrants also aren't that difficult to clank with.

His grab is awful and he can't beat shield consistently without putting himself at higher risk (compared to other people just grabbing).

Outside of Bell, it's pretty hard to KO people before they can start abusing rage and turn the tables on him.

None of these flat out invalidate him, but it's going to be tough.