Overwhelming Heat:A Pressure Problem

[Blazing Seraph]

So I have been playing roy for some time now, and I have only had one problem. How can I apply shield pressure safely and consistently? Do I throw out quick shffl fairs? Do you DED into the downward multi hit poke? Do I ignore shield pressure and go straight for a grab? These questions plague me to no end. Also wondering how I can mix up my approaches.
Help me out with our boy!

 

[Bag'O'Nuts]

Lately I've seen Sethlon and Lunchables use DED to apply pressure and reverse the last hit to space in order to avoid a shield grab or counter attack or some kind. It seems to work very well.

 

[Binary Clone]

Roy doesn't really have any real shield pressure like some characters do. None of his moves are particularly safe on shield. SHFFL aerials you can space so they're safe, but you can't really follow up with anything from there guaranteed.

The only thing really resembling shield pressure for him would be DED, but even that is hard to count, as you can shield grab between the hits. However, 3rd and 4th hit down can be fairly effective against shields if you get them out.

 

[Blazing Seraph]

With my recent play I have been doing shffld fairs, it tends to give the opponent mental pressure well, due to how quickly it comes out/ends and how hard it is to punish when spaced correctly. Would something like that be good at forcing a roll/nervous shield grab?

 

[Deleted member]

Roy is great vs shields if you know what you're doing

the 4th reverse hit of DED can bait out shield grabs and it has incredibly low end lag so you don't get punished

If you correctly space D tilt on shield, it's very safe.

Fair is kind of safe on shield if you do it VERY late, if you do a late fair on shield you'll want to immediately dash away or behind them though depending on their OOS options. (BTW, inner hit of fair does more % making it safer on shield)

U air is also -2 on shield, once again you have to do it late though.

Fsmash is also *kind of* safe, since some characters lack the proper OOS options to punish it. Whenever sethlon wavedashes from the ledge into an fsmash, its usually pretty safe because they either get hit or the shield push back makes it very hard to punish. It seems bad, but its actually pretty good lol

 

[Binary Clone]

Roy is great vs shields if you know what you're doing

the 4th reverse hit of DED can bait out shield grabs and it has incredibly low end lag so you don't get punished

If you correctly space D tilt on shield, it's very safe.

Fair is kind of safe on shield if you do it VERY late, if you do a late fair on shield you'll want to immediately dash away or behind them though depending on their OOS options. (BTW, inner hit of fair does more % making it safer on shield)

U air is also -2 on shield, once again you have to do it late though.

Fsmash is also *kind of* safe, since some characters lack the proper OOS options to punish it. Whenever sethlon wavedashes from the ledge into an fsmash, its usually pretty safe because they either get hit or the shield push back makes it very hard to punish. It seems bad, but its actually pretty good lol

Isn't uair 0 on shield in 3.5? I recall it was -2 in 3.02, but they increased L-cancel lag by 2 frames in 3.5.

 

[Smolder]

Isn't uair 0 on shield in 3.5? I recall it was -2 in 3.02, but they increased L-cancel lag by 2 frames in 3.5.

You got it backwards, man. It was 0 on shields in 3.02 and got changed to -2 in 3.5. The PMBR believed the last uair to be too free on shields seeing as you could uair --> grab on shield and not be punished if done correctly.

 

[Sethlon]

^^^
Though it was also in general tweaked to be closer to Roy's general landing lag. 3.02 is was 7 frames (matching Marth's), whereas all his other aerials have 2ish more frames of landlag than Marth.

 

[Sethlon]

But, to actually respond to the topic, yeah...Roy doesn't have spacie style pressure where he can just dive onto shields and not give a **** about his opponent's OoS options. You can do stuff like some late falling aerials into jab to beat shield grabs, but for the most part, Roy's "shield pressure" is going to revolve around attacking shields from a safe distance and poking his opponents out of stuff that they try to do afterwards.

 

[Deleted member]

you don't really abuse frame advantage with roy, instead you abuse disjoints. You can outspace OOS options heavily with welly spaced d tilts, side b's, etc.

 

[Blazing Seraph]

Thanks for the input on shield pressure, but what about some mental pressure? Should I dash dance back and forth to try and look for an opening?

 

[Smolder]

Thanks for the input on shield pressure, but what about some mental pressure? Should I dash dance back and forth to try and look for an opening?

You can do that, but sometimes you can sit right outside of their shield and wait for a reaction. People tend to panic when they see someone sitting patiently outside of their shield. The general reaction is to roll away, or if they're on the edge, roll inwards. Put them in that situation, see how they react, and punish them for doing the same reaction later on in a similar situation. Usually, when someone is put in a particular situation, they tend to have a somewhat cookie-cutter response to that situation, even with their timing of coming OoS. If they do something, and it works, then they will probably do it again. Just remember how they reacted, and think about how to counter that reaction for later instances of the same situation. This isn't to say that they won't adapt, of course. If they change up their reaction, just keep that reaction in mind and figure out a way to punish it as well.
EDIT: My bad. Thought we were talking about shield pressure mind games. DDing will probably be your go-to tech for when you want to play reactionary. It is very effective at baiting out attacks while allowing you to threaten space, and possibly get a quick anti-air DACUS to catch your opponent in their jumps.

 

[Azureflames]

Thanks for the input on shield pressure, but what about some mental pressure? Should I dash dance back and forth to try and look for an opening?

In my experience it can really depend on the player you're going against. I think no matter what dash dancing and staying mobile is key as a roy player and for smash in general. I think one of the hardest things to really get a grip on is staying within the "threat" zone and pressuring your opponent to make them feel under pressure and on top of that react accordingly to box them out and limit their options. I think the best thing to do as roy offensively and defensively is to really get comfortable with Dtilt maneuverability and pressure.

I find that in a lot of situations crouch can be the safest default position for roy to be in. From crouch you can Dtilt, wavedash SH fair, SH Nair, DED,Fsmash, Grab, etc. If you're in crouch you can safely deter run up grabs with a dtilt, you can punish poor spacing with Ftilt. If they try to go for SH approaches you can throw out an Fsmash, Fair, Ftilt or Nair depending on the character and situation. I guess the difficult part is dealing with people that can pressure you right back with mobility, projectiles, or strong CC'ers to negate your dtilt pressure/spacing.

I think a mix of staying mobile with dash dancing/wavedashing, well spaced out Dtilts/DED/Fair SHFFLs, and finally grabbing to set up combos if they get caught in shield is what the mindset should be.

Ive recently been trying to incorporate always trying to get myself into this position will still being able to deal with aerial pressure from above and wavedashing out of crouch/dtilt or OOS. I mean, when you think about mental pressure you're trying to be threatening to the opponent. Roy's most threatening position is his CC dtilt imo. Hence why you see Sethlon doing a lot of approaching Dtilt and wavedash out of crouch(or shield) into Dtilt shenanigans.

 

[Brim]

Like others said it's more about using some disjointed hitboxes. In my experience I actually go for the grab a fair amount, but like Lunchables said DED works decently. I personally think it requires some luck though.
And there's the fact: Roy is a combo character. Generally combo characters have unsafe moves that are intended to come after another hit, but the attacks themselves are generally not safe.