Overcoming the end lag of moves (w/ replay)

[FartyParty]

I keep facing opponents who seem to throw out move after move with zero delay in between at all as if they're able to completely circumvent any ending lag on their attacks. They'll whiff on an attack and go straight into another attack or get their shield up immediately with no gap in between at all where I could punish the whiff. It's ridiculous. I really don't understand what the heck they're doing with the controls to go from one action into another so quickly. And I'm not just talking about jabs or tilts where the ending lag is minimal. I experience this a lot with Ike players, for example, who will whiff on a smash or side special, moves that should have considerable end lag, but then get their shield up instantaneously or throw out a jab that gets me as I'm going to punish.

Here is a replay of me getting my ass kicked by a Dedede player that demonstrates this, and there's a specific moment early in the match that's perfect in this regard. About 30 seconds in (6:30 on the match timer), he whiffs on a forward smash and gets his shield up right away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFguTw6EmjU&feature=youtu.be

Am I perceiving what's going on correctly? Or is this a case of some people having such better reflexes that it seems like they're overcoming end lag but really aren't?

 

[yknowlikenia]

oh that's not reflexes at all! that's just buffering shield.
to buffer an input, after one input (like a smash attack) hold the next input you want to do. in this case, he's holding shield after inputting the smash attack, making it come up on the very first frame that it can.

 

[EGsmash]

You're playing against Dedede. He's always had ridiculously low endlag on most of his moves and he's just as nasty about it in Ultimate. You've got to be super careful about him being up in the air because he can land with Nair and act almost immediately. Dedede thrives on people thinking that they have room to punish him and rushing in only to get swatted down.

You ended up dashing straight into the Gordo a couple times too. As soon as he starts to toss that out you should be watching it and thinking about how you're going to get around it. You also got caught more than a few times trying to short hop. He knows Lucina's aerials are really good and that you're probably going to rely on them. Unfortunately DDD's aerials are better as they outrange yours. The short hop aerials against a grounded DDD where you fade back also don't work because if you attack shield or at low %, DDD's hammer jab will catch you as you fade back to land, and I don't know if you can double jump up and away in time to not get caught. If you find that he's shielding your aerials to punish, try running in and grabbing.

What Lucina has to her advantage is ground and aerial speed. I see you trying to play the mixup game, but honestly DDD will win that against Lucina way more often than not. What might work better is running out and in to try and bait out a move that you know is something you can punish, like a dash attack or Up B, and then just learn to deal with the Gordos as they get hucked at you.

DDD players like to get in your head to bait out aggressive play because they know that they can punish it. If you refuse to take the bait and instead play evasively, I find that tends to get DDD players tilted.

Best of luck!

 

[FartyParty]

You're playing against Dedede. He's always had ridiculously low endlag on most of his moves and he's just as nasty about it in Ultimate. You've got to be super careful about him being up in the air because he can land with Nair and act almost immediately. Dedede thrives on people thinking that they have room to punish him and rushing in only to get swatted down.

You ended up dashing straight into the Gordo a couple times too. As soon as he starts to toss that out you should be watching it and thinking about how you're going to get around it. You also got caught more than a few times trying to short hop. He knows Lucina's aerials are really good and that you're probably going to rely on them. Unfortunately DDD's aerials are better as they outrange yours. The short hop aerials against a grounded DDD where you fade back also don't work because if you attack shield or at low %, DDD's hammer jab will catch you as you fade back to land, and I don't know if you can double jump up and away in time to not get caught. If you find that he's shielding your aerials to punish, try running in and grabbing.

What Lucina has to her advantage is ground and aerial speed. I see you trying to play the mixup game, but honestly DDD will win that against Lucina way more often than not. What might work better is running out and in to try and bait out a move that you know is something you can punish, like a dash attack or Up B, and then just learn to deal with the Gordos as they get hucked at you.

DDD players like to get in your head to bait out aggressive play because they know that they can punish it. If you refuse to take the bait and instead play evasively, I find that tends to get DDD players tilted.

Best of luck!

I didn't mean to imply that this was specific to Dedede. I just happened to have that replay from tonight, but thank you for the advice against him. I generally don't struggle with heavies when the skill level is even, but this guy was wayyyy better than me.

 

[FartyParty]

oh that's not reflexes at all! that's just buffering shield.
to buffer an input, after one input (like a smash attack) hold the next input you want to do. in this case, he's holding shield after inputting the smash attack, making it come up on the very first frame that it can.

Ohhhhh you have to hold the button to buffer. I always wondered why I couldn't get it to work, and I pretty much always forget that's a thing. This probably explains every case I've encountered where I didn't understand how they were getting moves off so quickly. Thanks!

 

[EGsmash]

I didn't mean to imply that this was specific to Dedede. I just happened to have that replay from tonight, but thank you for the advice against him. I generally don't struggle with heavies when the skill level is even, but this guy was wayyyy better than me.

I gotcha. It's tough because when you aren't familiar with a certain matchup then feels like the other player is much better than they really are. From what I saw that DDD did a few things that you could have easily punished, but he also appeared to be quite competent in general.

 

[FartyParty]

I gotcha. It's tough because when you aren't familiar with a certain matchup then feels like the other player is much better than they really are. From what I saw that DDD did a few things that you could have easily punished, but he also appeared to be quite competent in general.

He was certainly superior to any other Dedede I've encountered in Quickplay.

 

[RepStar]

What was that dedede players name?

 

[FartyParty]

What was that dedede players name?

His name was Yan according to my past opponents list.