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Over-Representation VS Under-Representation

Fire_Voyager

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I Don't mind "100% original movesets" for the F-Zero characters, The Cap. Falcon's works so well that even the King of Evil wanted to fight like him (:troll:). Aside for that joke, I would like to see at least Goroh, or one of the ideas exposed by
@Thatkidwiththeafro . but having moves that resemble the ships will be always good... like :4fox:

I think they would work better as ATs. Yes I know that counts as shots fired, but still.
You mean the F-Zero characters?
 

EvanBuck

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IMHO Fire Emblem is overrepresented. Kirby and DK are definitely underrepresented, however. Most other franchises seem to be given the right amount of representation. I would like to see some new IPs in the upcoming DLC.
 

Brickbuild101

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Uh, Animal Crossing and maybe the "Wii series" could use second reps, though the latter's would most likely be considered part of a separate universe.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Of all the possible Wii reps left, there's Party Phil from Wii Party (But I'd rather not little to that Muppet ***hole's annoying voice again). There is also the Vitality Sensor (The living Balance Board from Wii Fit), but there aren't many options of moves left for it to pull from (unless they are the many balance games that Sakurai ignored).

Though I honestly expect more Streetpass representation in the next game since there were much more that could have been referenced other than Find Mii. Some can easily work as stages (Ultimate Angler would go so well for another island themes stage) while few can probably be item/Assist Trophy worthy like Monster Manor and Battleground Z. While I've originally wanted the Miis to have some moves from the games, I think they are fine just the way they are.
 
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TriforceOfAura

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I Don't mind "100% original movesets" for the F-Zero characters, The Cap. Falcon's works so well that even the King of Evil wanted to fight like him (:troll:). Aside for that joke, I would like to see at least Goroh, or one of the ideas exposed by
@Thatkidwiththeafro . but having moves that resemble the ships will be always good... like :4fox:



You mean the F-Zero characters?
No, the other Donkey Kong characters.
 

Fire_Voyager

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No, the other Donkey Kong characters.
Oh, Maybe some of the DK64 could be really good Assist, like Chunky Kong, hitting really hard, or Lanky, doing bizarre things, like inflating... or Tiny, shrinking in size and sticking in the opponent like a pikmin =P

Uh, Animal Crossing and maybe the "Wii series" could use second reps, though the latter's would most likely be considered part of a separate universe.
From Animal Crossing I would love to see what they can do with Isabelle or KK
Wich other "Wii Series?"
I want to see maybe another Mii with moves from Wii Sports

There is also the Vitality Sensor (The living Balance Board from Wii Fit), but there aren't many options of moves left for it to pull from (unless they are the many balance games that Sakurai ignored).
That would be really interesting =P
 

TriforceOfAura

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Oh, Maybe some of the DK64 could be really good Assist, like Chunky Kong, hitting really hard, or Lanky, doing bizarre things, like inflating... or Tiny, shrinking in size and sticking in the opponent like a pikmin =P



From Animal Crossing I would love to see what they can do with Isabelle or KK
Wich other "Wii Series?"
I want to see maybe another Mii with moves from Wii Sports



That would be really interesting =P
Haha, yes... Interesting is the word. We need Reckless safety notice man.
 

Fire_Voyager

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I imagine that the Balance board might hit with an hologram of the Reckless safety notice man (RSNM)... and this hologram could have the wii Zapper, or the wii Wheel... a character made of peripherals
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Inb4 Sakurai picks the Mahjong piece over both RSNM and the Balance Board.



And yes, Yakuman was on the Wii and Gameboy other than just the Famicom and DS. :troll:
 

CadePirate

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Apr 27, 2014
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I'd say Metroid and DK are severely underrepresented. We've not gotten much in the way of either series since SSB64, always a jungle level/lava level, always the same sounding remixes, no new characters until Brawl, and none since, and the conspicuous absence of a major villain.

Star Fox also could use a bit more creativity, particularly in the Final Smash department.

I'd also argue that Zelda is slightly underrepresented. In terms of characters, they're perfect (but I'd love to have Ghirahim and Midna to round out the 'Minor villain' and 'Exposition fairy' types). However, they're still hopelessly cloned from each other. This is the first game where Toon Link doesn't even get a unique crowd cheer! I think they need some love in decloning, particularly after Hyrule Warriors showed us what we should have by now.

Overrepped: Fire Emblem a bit, but I have no problem with overuse of swordsmen. I don't like overuse of the same swordsman.

Also, Kid Icarus, but that's obvious. All the KI content is from the same game, which was the series' first in over 20 years. They make up most of the enemies in Smash run, have multiple Assist characters (DK is still waiting for its first), the Classic Mode was thrown out to make way for the new "Classic mode: Uprising, " and of course, that's the major stage with the codec. KI is a tiny 3-game series, but makes up the majority of content rivaling Pokémon and Mario.

I think Mario and Pokémon are repped fine. They are both Nintendo's massive flagships, and should be repped accordingly. Also, it's ok to have Gen 1 repped more than the others, since that's the first one, and most Smashers who are 25+ know the older ones better than the newer ones.




Just because the clone took less dev time doesn't mean it took none. It still had to be made, and people who are not good with the parent now have to play the same character essentially twice for certain challenges. Let's also point out that BOTH of the Marth challenges are on the top row, and one can't be hammered. Good luck to people who are not good with Marth but want to collect everything.

And I'd wonder what would happen if instead of DP and Lucina, we'd gotten K.Rool (Bowser) and Ridley (Charizard) clones...those series would get the representation they need, the KI/FE series woudn't get the overrepresentation that's killing support for further KI/FE characters, and then the people who like large reptilian bosses would finally get something... I don't think we'd be having these arguments.
Of course then in SSB5, we'd be arguing the same as we are with Ganondorf now, that he needs to be decloned...
Even if you removed the clone characters and the development time used to make them, that time would not be near enough to make a new character. These clones we have are desert. People are complaining because developers gave us extras in a game already populated with new mechanics and new content. On the other hand, I agree with your statement of tedious challenges.(I just beat that Marth 9.0 one.)
 

CaptainAmerica

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Even if you removed the clone characters and the development time used to make them, that time would not be near enough to make a new character. These clones we have are desert. People are complaining because developers gave us extras in a game already populated with new mechanics and new content. On the other hand, I agree with your statement of tedious challenges.(I just beat that Marth 9.0 one.)
My argument was never to replace the clones with a full character. I suggested to make Toon Link a new crowd chant with the time used to give one to Lucina. To give Ganondorf a new victory theme instead of giving one to Dark Pit. To fix Link's animation issues rather than program three victory poses for Doc. I get that you can not make a new character, but I fail to see how making a crowd chant for e.g. Dark Pit takes infinitely less than making a crowd chant for Toon Link - it's literally the same thing.

My argument focused on things that could be done to optimize the current characters, even in miniscule ways, instead of doing precisely the same things for the clones.
 

TriforceOfAura

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Even if you removed the clone characters and the development time used to make them, that time would not be near enough to make a new character. These clones we have are desert. People are complaining because developers gave us extras in a game already populated with new mechanics and new content. On the other hand, I agree with your statement of tedious challenges.(I just beat that Marth 9.0 one.)
I miss the Event Matches from Melee. Sure, they're hard as hell (MELEE HELL!) But they're also fun.
 

DrSurgeonGuy

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Wasn't the Dedede in Melee situation that, the time that could've been used to make one unique character was enough time to create 7 clones(and almost Wario/Mario clone) instead? I believe I remember hearing about Sakurai not wanting to over-rep his own franchise(although this could've been about Brawl), but now that we have Smash 4, even though I feel Kirby could use some more content, that Sakurai ended up over-repping his own franchises anyways.

While F-Zero is unfortunately unrepresented it feels, I don't think it's in the Smash spirit to just take a character, shove Ganondorf moveset on it and free him up for a more original moveset. The most Nintendo thing I feel they'd do is just shove his moveset on an entirely different character, if they ever do decide to use a more game-canon moveset.

I do agree that there could be tons of minor things to give each and every character more unique representation, like victory tune changes. It's a bit disappointing...

Also, as an aside, I always thought the following was an interesting thing to think about, but not enough to make a topic. What if one of the Melee clones was DK Jr.? Just a thought.
 

TriforceOfAura

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Wasn't the Dedede in Melee situation that, the time that could've been used to make one unique character was enough time to create 7 clones(and almost Wario/Mario clone) instead? I believe I remember hearing about Sakurai not wanting to over-rep his own franchise(although this could've been about Brawl), but now that we have Smash 4, even though I feel Kirby could use some more content, that Sakurai ended up over-repping his own franchises anyways.

While F-Zero is unfortunately unrepresented it feels, I don't think it's in the Smash spirit to just take a character, shove Ganondorf moveset on it and free him up for a more original moveset. The most Nintendo thing I feel they'd do is just shove his moveset on an entirely different character, if they ever do decide to use a more game-canon moveset.

I do agree that there could be tons of minor things to give each and every character more unique representation, like victory tune changes. It's a bit disappointing...

Also, as an aside, I always thought the following was an interesting thing to think about, but not enough to make a topic. What if one of the Melee clones was DK Jr.? Just a thought.
Dedede should have been in Melee. IMO, there should have been a new Kirby character for each game. Obviously Kirby in 64, Dedede in Melee, Meta Knight in Brawl, and Bandana Dee in 4.
 
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DrSurgeonGuy

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Sep 23, 2015
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But then we wouldn't have the ever adored Dr. Mario! :awesome:
But then again, Toon Link might've had an original move-set in Brawl.:glare:
While I would've been happy with a Kirby character per game, it doesn't change the fact Smash 4 didn't get anyone.
Sometimes I wonder about Nintendo's thought process...
 

TriforceOfAura

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But then we wouldn't have the ever adored Dr. Mario! :awesome:
But then again, Toon Link might've had an original move-set in Brawl.:glare:
While I would've been happy with a Kirby character per game, it doesn't change the fact Smash 4 didn't get anyone.
Sometimes I wonder about Nintendo's thought process...
Nintendo: WE NEED MORE MARTHS
 
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