Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
The sonic mu discussion is over. I already stated that as the meta grows and evolves we will touchback on previous matchups. I don't undestand why you would post about sonic when the title and discussion topic is right above you. It's good for you to voice your thoughts but when it's off-topic you can make thoughts unorganized and disorient users.I've been putting more time into MK and while I do understand your frustration with Sonic, I doubt that MK has any 3:7 MUs. The reason that the match-up is bad is because the Sonic can time you out once they get the lead and MK can't really approach Sonic very well. What MK can do, though, is turtle Sonic better than almost every member of the cast. Dash grab/dash attack allow MK to punish Sonic's tilts and those in combination with Dtilt and Dair allow him to keep out dash-ins.
The main problem comes with spin dash: I don't believe that MK really has a direct answer to it, as it out-trades or clashes with MK's grounded move set. Technically, his aerials should beat it cleanly, but the risk/reward for landing anything but the first hits of Bair is discouraging. On the other hand, MK also has some of the most vertical range in the game in Up-B, which is bolstered by his fast ground speed and dash attack -- a very safe punish option should they continue spin dash on the ground. On top of these, Down B can cover both of these options and is useful to close out the stock (most of Sonic's easy MUs can't kill him because they must punish his spin dash with non-kill moves).
Generally you want Sonic to be in the air on-stage, as MK can juggle Sonic just as well as most of the cast, if not edge guard him. If Sonic tries to recover high then be there so that you can prevent him homing by air dodging and hitting his spin dash. If he grabs the ledge then you have a ledge trump and tornado/cape 50/50 that either does 7+damage and resets the situation or 15+damage and a possible kill. This is also a spot to use Fsmash, as you can space and time it so that you'll beat spin dash onto the stage instead of clashing and either out-trade or hit everything but ledge roll. If Sonic recovers low then keep an eye out for him being sloppy and try to time a Dair to catch his ledge grab frame (it recovers fast enough to still use the 50/50 that I mentioned above).
As a side note, I believe that MK beats Falcon if you use your combos to put Falcon off-stage instead of juggle/damage rack and then take his stock.
Don't forget U-throw as a kill move on stubborn opponents. Especially with rage (again).Once again, I don't have much to add that Warionumbah2 didn't already cover.
The MU summed-up is: Sheik has better point-blank (Jab, Tilts, SH F-Air, & Grab) and long-range options (needles) but MK has a much more dangerous mid-range game (dash grab, DA, D-Air, F-Smash) with a wide array of KO options. Both characters combo very well at low- to mid-percents. Neither character has the options to box-out the other and both characters have hard to gimp recoveries, so games usually come down to who can play footies best. However, MK has the important advantage of having far more KO options and can end Sheik's stock if she makes any mistake with Shuttle Loop OoS, Up-Smash, F-Smash, Rage D-Smash, Rage N-Air, and even combos off of grab, Up-Air, or Dash Attack. So long as MK's aware of ledge-trumping, Sheik doesn't get B-Airs on MK off-stage due to his recovery tools which is a huge part of Sheik's KO game in other MUs.
I believe the MU isa solid55-45in 's favor. This would be 50-50 if Sheik didn't have a harder time KOing MK than MK does Sheik. While it's still not our most favorable MU, this is my favorite MK MU as it is very fast-paced and character control is the biggest deciding factor for victory.
This is a set of For Glory games in which I noticed the Sheik was starting to adapt to my MK so started to record it thinking it would help discussion:
You'll notice that he keeps getting closer and closer by subtly changing how he approaches then eventually beats me before I quickly adapt to his F-Air & N-Air game by throwing out F-Airs to catch him and shut down those options. It's a neat back & forth.
Edit: A slight change of opinion. I think it actually is closer than 55-45. 53-47 seems better to me. Sheik players Judo and Ralph Cecil showed me yesterday that it's not quite as easy for MK to get that KO but Sheik still struggle a bit more to get it too. I lived until 208% one match.
Sheik should pretty much just go for free and safe Bair/Up-B kills. If she Fthrows you at ~120% then it's a 50/50 on your stock. Sheik's dash attack actually does quite a bit of disruption in MK's neutral stance; Meta Knight is supposed to be dashing often and dash attack covers an immense amount of space that disrupts MK's mid-range neutral stance.Once again, I don't have much to add that Warionumbah2 didn't already cover.
The MU summed-up is: Sheik has better point-blank (Jab, Tilts, SH F-Air, & Grab) and long-range options (needles) but MK has a much more dangerous mid-range game (dash grab, DA, D-Air, F-Smash) with a wide array of KO options. Both characters combo very well at low- to mid-percents. Neither character has the options to box-out the other and both characters have hard to gimp recoveries, so games usually come down to who can play footies best. However, MK has the important advantage of having far more KO options and can end Sheik's stock if she makes any mistake with Shuttle Loop OoS, Up-Smash, F-Smash, Rage D-Smash, Rage N-Air, and even combos off of grab, Up-Air, or Dash Attack. So long as MK's aware of ledge-trumping, Sheik doesn't get B-Airs on MK off-stage due to his recovery tools which is a huge part of Sheik's KO game in other MUs.
I believe the MU isa solid55-45in 's favor. This would be 50-50 if Sheik didn't have a harder time KOing MK than MK does Sheik. While it's still not our most favorable MU, this is my favorite MK MU as it is very fast-paced and character control is the biggest deciding factor for victory.
This is a set of For Glory games in which I noticed the Sheik was starting to adapt to my MK so started to record it thinking it would help discussion:
You'll notice that he keeps getting closer and closer by subtly changing how he approaches then eventually beats me before I quickly adapt to his F-Air & N-Air game by throwing out F-Airs to catch him and shut down those options. It's a neat back & forth.
Edit: A slight change of opinion. I think it actually is closer than 55-45. 53-47 seems better to me. Sheik players Judo and Ralph Cecil showed me yesterday that it's not quite as easy for MK to get that KO but Sheik still struggle a bit more to get it too. I lived until 208% one match.