Out of Shield options

[Garde Noir]

With shield being so prominent in the metagame, character like Mario are starting to flourish because of their quick Out of Shield options. However, I haven't found a place for Rosalina mains to have a quick Out-of-Shield discussion.

Shielding is a massive part of the elaborate rock-paper-scissors of Smash, Shield beats attack, but grab beats shield, and attack beats grab. However, it's far more complicated than that, as quickly attacking out of shield is WHY shield beats attack. Otherwise Shield Pressure from the opponent causes us to be in unpleasant situations.

What's moves work right out of the Shield, with minimal lag, and maximized potential?

 

[Zonderion]

This may be my naivety, but I believe a Nair is quick enough. I tend place my thumb between the jump and A button and roll my thumb to get the quickest Nair. I don't remember what frame Luma's first attack comes out on, but I believe it's pretty quick.

 

[HeroMystic]

Grab. That's about it.

N-air doesn't come out fast enough and leaves you completely vulnerable if you're not facing behind your opponent.

 

[Zonderion]

Grab. That's about it.

N-air doesn't come out fast enough and leaves you completely vulnerable if you're not facing behind your opponent.

Really? I just looked up Luma's frame data for Nair, and it comes out frame 2. If the opponent is in front, they either get hit by Luma, or shield or dodge, which let's you retreat and Rosalina's ending hitboxes come around. No?


Also, what do you mean facing " behind" your opponent?

 

[HeroMystic]

Really? I just looked up Luma's frame data for Nair, and it comes out frame 2. If the opponent is in front, they either get hit by Luma, or shield or dodge, which let's you retreat and Rosalina's ending hitboxes come around. No?


Also, what do you mean facing " behind" your opponent?

The frame data is fairly deceiving. Luma acts one frame after Rosalina's hitbox appears. Meaning, since Rosalina's N-air comes out on Frame 9, Luma comes out on Frame 11 (f9 is Rosalina's Hitbox. f10 is Luma acting, f11 is Luma's N-air hitbox).

This is why Luma jabs after Rosalina's jab, even though Luma has a much faster jab.

Bad wording on my part. I meant if your back if not towards your opponent, then Rosie's N-air is a poor OOS option.

 

[Zonderion]

The frame data is fairly deceiving. Luma acts one frame after Rosalina's hitbox appears. Meaning, since Rosalina's N-air comes out on Frame 9, Luma comes out on Frame 11 (f9 is Rosalina's Hitbox. f10 is Luma acting, f11 is Luma's N-air hitbox).

This is why Luma jabs after Rosalina's jab, even though Luma has a much faster jab.

Bad wording on my part. I meant if your back if not towards your opponent, then Rosie's N-air is a poor OOS option.

I always thought there was just a 1 frame delay for Luma. So after hitting an attack button, there is a 1 frame delay before Luma starts his attack, but it's after the hit box comes out, not the start of the animation?

 

[Jams.]

Pretty sure luma's nair is frame 3. @ HeroMystic , I feel like your explanation is incorrect because in that case Rosalina could never lunar land (Luma land? IDK). Luma's aerial still comes out even though Rosalina's aerial is autocancelled before its hitbox comes out.
However, when you jump OoS, you have to account for the character's jump squat frames (usually 4-5 frames), and it feels like Rosalina has a fairly slow jump to me. This means that nair OoS is slightly slower than grab.
Usmash OoS is not awful and is a solid punish, but it's pretty high commitment. I do get a decent number of kills with it though.

 

[HeroMystic]

Pretty sure luma's nair is frame 3. @ HeroMystic , I feel like your explanation is incorrect because in that case Rosalina could never lunar land (Luma land? IDK). Luma's aerial still comes out even though Rosalina's aerial is autocancelled before its hitbox comes out.
However, when you jump OoS, you have to account for the character's jump squat frames (usually 4-5 frames), and it feels like Rosalina has a fairly slow jump to me. This means that nair OoS is slightly slower than grab.
Usmash OoS is not awful and is a solid punish, but it's pretty high commitment. I do get a decent number of kills with it though.

I actually mis-remembered the explanation given to me. It's actually what @ Zonderion said with Luma having a 1-frame delay on input (so Luma's animation would regularly start on frame 2 of Rosalina's animation), and as long as Rosalina is not in hitstun then Luma acts independently. My mistake there.

Instead what I'll say is if Rosalina is being pressured on her shield, that usually means Luma is not in a position to do an OOS option, so it's better to look at what Rosalina herself can do rather than looking to Luma, in that case we're looking at pretty much Grab. U-Smash if your opponent is reeeeeally leaving themselves open with an aerial approach.

 

[DanGR]

Yeah if they don't hit Luma, then n-air is a great OoS option. (Frame 3) However often times you don't have enough to time to tell whether or not they hit Luma with their aerial before you need to make a decision. In those situations grabbing or rolling is the safer option. Luma-less n-air will get you punished.

 

[DisidisiD]

U-tilt is another good choice if you have luma with you. I'm not sure what the exact data is, but I believe luma u-tilt comes out at frame 3 or 4. Good for getting those U-air strings in.

 

[SN_Hacky]

Just putting in my input that I agree that NAir is a good option. I play Mario as my alt, which like you mentioned, has great OoS options, so Im finding myself trapped in shield a lot as RosaLuma, but like others have said, grab and nair are our best options. I choose to go for grabs more often than not because if Luma does manage to get hit away, you can pummel until she's back. You can get way more milage out of a grab, anyways. If it means anything, I've only gotten one, single tournament kill with OoS NAir. I'd safely say its the #2 offensive option out of shield, though.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

No love for Launch Star Attack OOS?

Kidding, I know that move is booty. Like, even trying to use it on purpose against the AI I couldn't make it useful.

 

[Jams.]

I actually mis-remembered the explanation given to me. It's actually what @ Zonderion said with Luma having a 1-frame delay on input (so Luma's animation would regularly start on frame 2 of Rosalina's animation), and as long as Rosalina is not in hitstun then Luma acts independently. My mistake there.

Instead what I'll say is if Rosalina is being pressured on her shield, that usually means Luma is not in a position to do an OOS option, so it's better to look at what Rosalina herself can do rather than looking to Luma, in that case we're looking at pretty much Grab. U-Smash if your opponent is reeeeeally leaving themselves open with an aerial approach.

IIRC, usmash OoS negates the shield dropping frames because you can instantaneously enter jump squat while shielding. This means that an ideal usmash OoS is frame 8, which is only 2 frames slower than standing grab and is about the same as a nair OoS. The hitbox is pretty non-ideal though and it'll whiff on a lot of shorter characters. =/

 

[icraq]

dair out of shield is another option because it autocancels and can kill near the ledge, as long as luma isn't hit.

maybe not as good as usmash or nair but i think it's notably decent.