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[OU RMT] The Gathering

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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I haven't played this team since last week, but in a set of 24 games I won 20, making small changes and notes along the way. Since I've not been doing much with Pokémon lately, I'll make this a full-fledged RMT setup.

This is one of the few teams I've built starting with a non-lead and working my way up from there, rather than starting from the top down. It's designed to be able to handle threats by switching in a resist to an attack and then immediately threaten back. The nicknames are those of various legendary creatures from the card game Magic: the Gathering, hence the team name.

The team at a glance


In-Depth Look

Iona (Mesprit) @ Leftovers

Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Final Stats: 364 HP / 193 Atk / 320 Def / 196 Spd / 246 SAtk / 265 SDef

-
Psychic - 90 Power (+45 STAB = 135 Power)
Pretty much the standard STAB move for Mesprit. Even without any investment, Mesprit's base 105 SAtk lets her hit decently hard with a STAB special attack. It also covers the Fighting type that's recently been rising in popularity.

-
Ice Beam - 95 Power
The first half of the well-known BoltBeam, Ice Beam covers all the usual threats, like Dragonite and Gliscor.

-
Thunderbolt - 95 Power
The second half of the BoltBeam combination, Thunderbolt is handy against water-based offensive threats such as Starmie and Gyarados.

-
Stealth Rock
Finally, the staple entry hazard of many offensive-based teams, Stealth Rock. Mesprit's relatively high bulk allows her to safely set up SR against a wide range of leads. Depending on how things go in the future, I might want to switch this out for U-turn, to give me a better solution to lead Azelf. However, right now I like Stealth Rock's residual damage all too much on this team to just pass it up.

Mesprit's a somewhat experimental lead I've been running, and she's enjoyed decent success. With the BoltBeam combination to give great neutral coverage as well as access to Stealth Rock, Mesprit can function effectively as both a bulky lead and, in a few situations, an anti-lead. Mesprit's greatest strength is being able to come back in later and shut down one of many common offensive threats.

Iona, Shield of Emeria, is a powerful Angel capable of negating an entire section of the opponent's deck in Magic.

Lead Threats List
Azelf - Unfortunately, the number one lead in OU is very likely my worst matchup by far. Mesprit can't set up Rocks due to Taunt, and can't 2HKO with her attacks since Azelf resists the STAB Psychic. My best bet is to just Thunderbolt three times, hoping for paralysis on the first or second hit, and otherwise hoping for the best in not getting KO'd by Explosion (which I have a slightly under 50% chance of living through).

Machamp - Easy matchup. Psychic is a clean 2HKO, while Payback deals only 57.7% damage to Mesprit at most, allowing her to keep over half her life after Leftovers recovery while outspeeding and killing Machamp. Only a STAB'd or Banded Crunch, or a specially-based SE attack, can properly bring Mesprit down afterward, giving the opportunity to set up Stealth Rock or just escape for later.

Aerodactyl - Thunderbolt twice. If the Taunt runs out after that, all the better, but Aerodactyl shouldn't be able to accomplish anything more than setting up Rocks. If the opponent elects to set up SR on the first turn instead of Taunting, I usually take the opportunity to put up my own Rocks second turn if he believes you don't have it.

Metagross - To Mesprit's credit, Meteor Mash won't even 2HKO, giving me an easy opportunity to get Stealth Rock up. Afterward, I'd likely switch in Scizor to resist the Meteor Mash (I'd rather keep Heatran's Leftovers a secret), who can live through a followup Earthquake (though not an Explosion), then U-turn out for enough damage to let Flygon to threaten the KO. Though a U-turn would likely be smarter, Metagross is big enough of a threat that I'd be willing to risk the switch against the Earthquake.

Swampert - Set up Stealth Rock, switch to Scizor to take the Ice Beam, U-turn out and resist the Earthquake with Celebi. Celebi's Grass Knot will typically scare Swampert out.

Jirachi - Switch immediately to Scizor, who can resist both physical hits and will force Jirachi out in the case of Trick or Stealth Rock, allowing a guaranteed scout on the U-turn. If Jirachi for some reason stays in, U-turn into Flygon.

Infernape - Leftovers can effective negate Fake Out. Just hit Psychic and then bring up Rocks on the switch-out and Infernape's accomplished less than Azelf.

Roserade - Annoying lead. Since Celebi has Heal Bell, I risk a Psychic for now. If Sleep Powder misses, I go for the 2HKO. If Sleep Powder connects on either of the two turns, I switch to Heatran and set up Substitute for free. Only Celebi and Kingdra are affected by Toxic Spikes, and neither is particularly interested in staying in for long, so Roserade shouldn't be too much trouble unless it's a Spikes lead.

Heatran - Set up Rocks, then swap to Kingdra to soak up the Fire Blast and threaten to OHKO with Hydro Pump. Like Metagross, since Heatran's a threat and has Explosion, I'll probably want to use Hydro Pump even risking a switch into a resist.

Ninjask - Unfortunately, Mesprit has zero solutions to Ninjask. The rare Choice Band variant will also hit her for 68.1 - 80.8% damage. Fortunately, Scizor's still on this team, so I immediately switch to her and start Bullet Punching. I'll probably lose immediately to the Focus Sash variant... However, if the Ninjask is simply part of a chain, Celebi can come in later to shut it down.



Sisay (Scizor) (F) @ Choice Band

Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
Final Stats: 343 HP / 591 Atk / 236 Def / 168 Spd / 131 SAtk / 196 SDef

-
U-turn - 70 Power (+35 STAB = 105 Power)
-
Bullet Punch - 40 Power (+20 Technician = 60 Power + 30 STAB = 90 Power)
-
Superpower - 120 Power
-
Pursuit - 40 Power (+20 Technician = 60 Power) // 80 Power

There is absolutely nothing non-standard about this Choice Band Scizor's moveset, so I won't bother explaining any of it. I chose Pursuit over Quick Attack because I have enough solutions to water Pokémon on this team already.

Scizor is the primary physical attacker of this team, and she does her job rather well. There's not much more to get into there. Her 4x weakness, fire, gives an easy bait setup for my Heatran and Kingdra.

Sisay was the legendary captain of the Weatherlight, who had the leadership to bring together an amazing crew. Her card gave her the ability to search up any Legends from your deck.


Kamahl (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
Final Stats: 323 HP / 216 Atk / 248 Def / 278 Spd / 359 SAtk / 224 SDef

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Substitute
THE BEST MOVE IN THE GAME. Okay, probably not, but still absurdly good on a Pokémon like Heatran. Though the Leftovers forces me to bring him in on a revenge unless there are no Spikes or Stealth Rock up to hide this set, giving Heatran a free turn is never a good thing, shutting down opposing Heatran switch-ins and giving a free Explosion opportunity on bulky water switch-ins that I would normally have trouble with, like Suicune.

-
Lava Plume - 80 Power (+40 STAB = 120 Power)
I've been toying around with Lava Plume and though having 22.5 less Power than Flamethrower, the extra burn chance gives me a good option to hit Fighting types and Flygons with.

-
Earth Power - 80 Power
Obvious attack. Hits opposing Heatrans and Tyranitars for super effective damage.

-
Explosion - 250 Power (x0.5 Defense = 500 Power)
Boom. While a Scarfed Heatran typically needs some prediction to hit its target with Explosion, one behind a Substitute can easily choose who it wants to blow up on. For a while I ran Toxic in this slot, but ended up getting beaten down by things like CroCune that I didn't want to stay in for very long against me.

Giving Heatran Substitute lets him work well as a transition between my team members. Being a valid switch-in from both Celebi and Scizor, even when the surprise factor is gone he can still gain plenty of chances to set up another Substitute, and if the opponent tries to force him out with a special wall like Blissey or bulky water like Suicune, Explosion's always an option to break down the opposing team. Even when gone, Kingdra can take up the switch targets from Celebi and Scizor. Speaking of, Heatran makes up the second part of Kingdra's 4x resist bait, water.

Though Kamahl had a beastly 6 power, with only 1 toughness to hold it up, attacking was often a kamikaze affair. However, he also had the ability to strike from a distance, dealing 3 damage to any target of the player's choosing without having to attack.


Linessa (Celebi) @ Leftovers

Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Final Stats: 404 HP / 212 Atk / 320 Def / 245 Spd / 236 SAtk / 236 SDef

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Perish Song
Perish Song is an incredibly effective and underused pHazing attack, breaking up Baton Pass chains even through the normally safe Ingrain, and scaring off Calm Mind/Curse setup users until I have a better answer to them.

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Grass Knot - 20-120 Power (+10-60 STAB = 30-180 Power)
Simple STAB option here. Grass Knot is used over Psychic to hit both Gyarados and Tyranitar, who are otherwise big threats I can't always switch into something on, for heavy damage.

-
Recover
Another obvious option. Recover gives Celebi the chance to stick around and wait out Perish Song turns, to force a double blind switch.

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Heal Bell
Though U-turn works more synergistically with Perish Song, I really want my team to stay in best health. Having my Scizor burned, or any of my Pokémon asleep, severely reduces my switch and threaten options, moreso than many other teams, so the cleric option on Celebi is a godsend.

Perish Song Celebi is another good intermediate step in my team, to come in when I don't have any obvious counter-switches and force a re-roll, as well as giving a much-needed pHazing option in general. Heal Bell also makes him incredibly useful to recover from the effects of a lead Roserade or Smeargle, or that Will-o'-Wisp on my Scizor, or the poorly-switched-in Heatran on a Celebi's Thunder Wave.

Linessa was a Zephyr magician with the ability of returning to hand any single creature on either side, given enough mana.


Numot (Kingdra) (M) @ Choice Specs

Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 32 HP / 224 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
Final Stats: 299 HP / 203 Atk / 226 Def / 288 Spd / 433 SAtk / 226 SDef

-
Draco Meteor - 140 Power (+70 STAB = 210 Power)
Nothing likes eating a STAB Specs Draco Meteor. Even the heavily HP-EV'd Choice Band Metagross, who resists the attack, will suffer 41.2 - 48.6% damage, and weaker Steels like Lucario won't even get a good opportunity to do anything significant, especially with Kingdra resisting the STAB.

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Hydro Pump - 120 Power (+60 STAB = 180 Power)
On the other side, Kingdra can also fire off an extremely powerful STAB Specs Hydro Pump. With this combination of STABs, the only thing capable of resisting him completely is Empoleon, who's got plenty of other troubles with Celebi, Mesprit, and Flygon all on the team. Unless the threat is significant and not Choice-locked into something, the usual plan with Kingdra is to select the STAB that's resisted, as anything, besides Empoleon, that resists one typing will take neutral damage from the other, and Pokémon locked into one of Kingdra's resists will almost certainly switch out, letting you punch a hole into the opponent's team each time Kingdra gets a chance of coming in.

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Surf - 95 Power (+47.5 STAB = 142 Power)
In the late game, when accuracy and consistency matter over power, Kingdra can clean up with the weaker forms of his two STABs, as the Choice Specs still manages to make them hurt.

-
Dragon Pulse - 90 Power (+45 STAB = 135 Power)
See Surf.

Kingdra was the beginning of this team, and he is what keeps together the core of Heatran, Celebi, and Scizor. He provides a good alternative switch for their common type weaknesses, and will deal incredibly heavy damage each time he's given the chance. By putting these holes into the opposing team, it cuts down the number of threats I have to watch for down to a much more manageable number.

Numot, the Devastator, was a legendary Dragon capable of breaking down an opposing player's game plan by destroying lands each time it hit.


Intet (Flygon) (M) @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
Final Stats: 301 HP / 299 Atk / 196 Def / 492 Spd / 176 SAtk / 197 SDef
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Earthquake - 100 Power (+50 STAB = 150 Power)
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Outrage - 120 Power (+60 STAB = 180 Power)
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U-turn - 70 Power
-
Stone Edge - 100 Power

Another standard set, so I won't be explaining the attacks. While some people would recommend ThunderPunch to hit Gyarados more accurately, I think Mesprit and Celebi are good enough to keep him at bay that I'd rather have a harder-hitting option against the Flying types, 80% accuracy and all. Flygon's scouting ability is well-known, and his STAB Earthquake is still quite useful for the field. In addition, U-turning back and forth between Scizor and Flygon is an amusing option to provoke a more exploitable switch-in from the opponent's side. Also, with Steel-types somewhat losing their commonness due to yet another Dragon being banned from OU, Outrage has become a much safer option to lock into mid-game.

Intet, the Dreamer, was another legendary Dragon, giving the player the ability to play a card from the deck for free each time he hit the opponent.

And that's the team.

Building Process
I started with the Specs Kingdra, since I was intrigued by the set once 9k+1 mentioned it in the Team Breakers thread.

Built to throw out an absurdly powerful STAB and hopefully KO something, then immediately retreat, Kingdra wants to come in on its two 4x resistances, fire and water, as often as it can, to maximize its switch-in potential. The two obvious selections for being weak to and thus baiting in these two typings were Scizor and Heatran.

While Scizor was perfect for the fire bait, and Heatran provided an alternative switch for the fire attack, Heatran himself had trouble with two other types - ground and fighting. While neither Scizor nor Kingdra were weak to those attacks, they didn't exactly enjoy coming in on them either, so I searched around for something that could stop and threaten both while being defensively oriented to safely come in on the attack and found Mesprit. Having access to Stealth Rock was a bonus, pushing her to a lead position.

In case anything of mine died, I wanted a good option for coming in on the revenge. Though not powerful, the U-turn proved to be immensely helpful, and Flygon's base 100 speed lets him work well with Choice Scarf.

Not sure of what else I wanted, I put in a cleric Blissey as a catch-all and decided to go test the team.

This quickly brought up three big problems - a big weakness to fighting, a lack of things (besides the lead Mesprit) to soak physical hits, and no pHazing against things that I really couldn't deal with at the moment. Since I've always liked Perish Song for its power through Suction Cups and Ingrain, and Celebi teamed well with Heatran anyway, he came into the team, replacing Blissey.



Abridged Threats List (non-lead)
Heatran - With my own Heatran, as well as a Kingdra and a Flygon, Heatrans are rarely a problem for the team. Since they typically switch in against my Heatran expecting a fire attack, only to be met with a Substitute, I don't usually have problems with any opposing Heatran. They're also rather predictable when coming in against Scizor or Celebi.

Scizor - Heatran is the standard answer to any Scizor, except for the Choice Scarf variant since my Heatran isn't Scarfed, himself. If Scizor predicts and hits with Superpower, I get a free switch to Mesprit. If all else fails, Kingdra resists the usual STAB Bullet Punch and deals heavy damage with Hydro Pump, while my own Scizor can try to clean up with Superpower, though that's a more risky option.

Gyarados - Mesprit takes 37.1 - 43.7% damage from an unboosted Waterfall, and 55.2 - 65.1% from a +1 Waterfall. Meanwhile, she OHKO's back any variant with Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock damage, except for a very low roll against bulky Gyarados due to Leftovers recovery. If Mesprit isn't there to finish the job, Celebi resists Gyarados' usual STAB water attack and can 3HKO all variants with STAB Grass Knot, and SpecsDra also resists the water STAB and deals heavy damage with Draco Meteor, dealing similar damage as Mesprit's Thunderbolt. Though I've very likely already lost the game if all three of those answers are gone, Flygon can come in and Outrage for over 50% damage, while his Scarf enables him to outspeed a single DD'd Gyarados.

Tyranitar - Scizor's Bullet Punch, Heatran's Earth Power, Kingdra's Hydro Pump, and Flygon's Earthquake say hi. Choice Scarf variants are incredibly simple to play around with this team, and DD versions will not get to kill more than one of my team most of the time.

Rotom-A - Rotom-A is rather scary because it hits so much of my team and nothing immediately kills it. One plan would be to scout the attack with Flygon, then U-turn or whatever appropriately (Heatran will enjoy a WoW, while Scarf versions mean I can plan my response accordingly). If either my Flygon or Scizor end up being burned by this, Celebi can heal it off later.

Starmie - Celebi resists both of Starmie's STABs as well as Thunderbolt, while Kingdra 4x resists the more common STAB and takes neutral from everything else. Starmie would be very unlikely to stay in against either, unless I made a poor switch.

Gengar - One of the things my team is weak to, due to having both Celebi and Mesprit on the team. Mesprit can usually survive a Life Orb Shadow Ball and OHKO back with Psychic, but the Substitute versions will make hell for my team. The plan either way is to get Mesprit in and either break the sub or break the Gengar, then run revenge with Scizor or Heatran (if Heatran was previously unrevealed).

Jirachi - Kingdra or Heatran can come in on most attacking versions and hit back hard with Hydro Pump or Lava Plume, respectively. If it's the Calm Mind version, Celebi resists the common combination of Psychic and Thunderbolt and will force it out with Perish Song until I can properly deal with it (Flygon/Heatran).

Infernape - Tricky. If it came in on an unsubbed Heatran, Mesprit can come in and survive a Close Combat followed by a Fire Blast, then OHKO back with Psychic. Kingdra can survive exactly one Close Combat and just Surf for the accurate OHKO. Flygon can revenge with Earthquake, if necessary.

Metagross - Flygon and Heatran usually keep Metagross out, but if not then Kingdra can severely cut down its life with Hydro Pump while resisting its STAB Meteor Mash.

Swampert - Celebi scares the **** out of this guy.

Dragonite - Mesprit handles Dragonite about as effectively as she handles Gyarados. Flygon can also revenge.

Blissey - Superpower with Scizor. Blissey is one of those things you can't really afford to scout. If it came in on Heatran, you're likely to be behind a Substitute. Scout its set with Lava Plume. Protect-less variants are Explosion bait, while the ones that do run Protect are a simple matter of Exploding the turn after.

Machamp - Really scary when it comes in as not a lead. Sacrifice something and revenge with Mesprit, Scizor, or Kingdra. If Heatran is behind a Substitute, it can try for a burn with Lava Plume, and Explode if that fails.

Lucario - Also tricky, like Infernape, but easier to prevent from coming in. Unfortunately, the usual counter, Scarf Heatran, isn't here, though I can try to scare it away on the revenge turn if he's unrevealed. Kingdra and Flygon both outspeed and OHKO Adamant Lucario, but a +2 Extremespeed has a good chance of KOing them both. If it came in on an unsubbed Heatran, you can try switching around on him until the combined Life Orb damage and loss of defense will make him die to a Scizor Bullet Punch.

Flygon - Scizor can Bullet Punch and Mesprit can Ice Beam. Flygon will also rarely come in on an opposing Flygon or Kingdra. While it will usually U-turn, which supers Mesprit, the combination of Mesprit's defenses, the rather weak attacking power of Flygon, and a non-STAB'd U-turn causes it to only deal 25.8 - 30.8% damage, which doesn't give the switch-in much to work with. Scizor takes even less, and is of course prime fire bait for Heatran and Kingdra.

Azelf - Lose a Pokémon and kill it with Bullet Punch on the revenge. Flygon can take a Psychic, outspeed and U-turn for over half its life, and switch into Mesprit, who will need two attacks to KO from either side.

Breloom - Perish Song Celebi until it's forced to come in on Heatran or Scizor, at which point it dies. Mesprit can absorb the sleep and then get healed by Celebi. If there's Toxic Spikes on your side, Kingdra can negate Spore altogether and threaten with Draco Meteor, though I'm in trouble if it decides to use Substitute first.



So, yeah. Have fun with critiques and stuff. This team's a lot less fragile than it looks, I promise.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
11,870
Your lead desperately wants U-Turn. U-Turn hits Azelf pretty hard, can be used to finish off 1 HP Aerodactyl and shrug off the Taunt, adapt to Swampert switches, etc. Ice Beam really only hits Dragonite and Gliscor.
 

Gates

Banned via Warnings
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Why don't you name them after good cards? You have Iona, but without another pokemon named Oath of Druids she'll just sit in your hand, sucking.
 

mood4food77

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Oct 6, 2005
Messages
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half of your team has a choice item, which means you'll be switching a lot

now we know flygon is pretty much designed to abuse the living hell out of choice scarf so that stays

you have scizor and kingdra to play around with, i actually don't have a clue who would be better but i think kingdra would be better to run this set:

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Mild / Swift Swim
80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Surf / Hydro Pump
Outrage
Draco Meteor
Waterfall

With this, you're able to use kingdra to hit both at both ends of the spectrum. Only Empoleon resists both Water and Dragon attacks and it still takes some damage from Draco Meteor (29% - 34.1% against the Bulky Penguin set). Also, using this set makes Blissey more worrisome of switching in, as a single Outrage deals half her life (against a 252/252 Bold Blissey).

This is simply just a suggestion as running 3 Choice users really does limit your team and looking at your 3 choice users, Kingdra seems to be the best replaced with another set. If this doesn't work, you can always switch back and try SD Scizor or call me an idiot for even giving you this idea
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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Your lead desperately wants U-Turn. U-Turn hits Azelf pretty hard, can be used to finish off 1 HP Aerodactyl and shrug off the Taunt, adapt to Swampert switches, etc. Ice Beam really only hits Dragonite and Gliscor.
Are Dragonite and Gliscor not large threats in today's metagame? I was under the impression that they were. i do agree that U-turn would greatly improve my matchup against the suicide leads, though. i'll play around with it the next time I end up playing this game and see if I hurt from lack of Ice Beam.

Why don't you name them after good cards? You have Iona, but without another pokemon named Oath of Druids she'll just sit in your hand, sucking.
Well, the idea was to pick legendary creatures with abilities that somewhat matched what my Pokémon was there to do, not to pick good cards.

half of your team has a choice item, which means you'll be switching a lot

now we know flygon is pretty much designed to abuse the living hell out of choice scarf so that stays

you have scizor and kingdra to play around with, i actually don't have a clue who would be better but i think kingdra would be better to run this set:

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Mild / Swift Swim
80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Surf / Hydro Pump
Outrage
Draco Meteor
Waterfall

With this, you're able to use kingdra to hit both at both ends of the spectrum. Only Empoleon resists both Water and Dragon attacks and it still takes some damage from Draco Meteor (29% - 34.1% against the Bulky Penguin set). Also, using this set makes Blissey more worrisome of switching in, as a single Outrage deals half her life (against a 252/252 Bold Blissey).

This is simply just a suggestion as running 3 Choice users really does limit your team and looking at your 3 choice users, Kingdra seems to be the best replaced with another set. If this doesn't work, you can always switch back and try SD Scizor or call me an idiot for even giving you this idea
Well, yes, switching a lot is... kind of the idea. SpecsDra runs heavy damage on anything short of a Blissey or an Empoleon every time it comes in, so I want as many opportunities for it to come in as it can. To that end, I have a Scizor and a Heatran, whose weaknesses to fire and water are 4x resisted by Kingdra. While the mixed set is interesting in its own right, I didn't really plan on staying in for long in the first place, and Life Orb only cuts Kingdra's life expectancy. You do bring up a valid point that half my team is choice users, which is why I have a Perish Song Celebi to force switches from the other side as well, along with keeping most of my team able to take a hit, except for Flygon. I might want to take out the Flygon.
 

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties
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Mesprit
- Cut tbolt for U-turn. You have enough answers to bulky waters with Celebi, Kingdra, and even Heatran's explosion. Ice Beam is super effective vs. Aerodactyl. You won't need tbolt to deal with any leads I'm aware of.
Kingdra
- Needs 8 more speed EVs to hit the next speed tier threshold, outrunning neutral natured base 95s.
- I don't think Hydro Pump is necessary. The extra damage you deal is almost never worth the chance of missing. Why do you think Stone Edge is called Stone Miss? If more pokemon learned Hydro Pump, I'm sure people would start calling it Hydro Miss too. A Hidden Power of your choice is the best replacement.
Celebi
- I do not think Heal Bell is necessary as you have Heatran to absorb burns, Flygon to absorb paralysis, and Celebi has natural cure to absorb sleep or whatever. If you have status problems, you're either messing up or facing a lotta hax.
- I think Perish Song is utterly terrible. Beating Baton Pass chains is just not worth this moveslot. Personally, I think Baton Pass teams are the most boring things to play and play against. If you really want a way to beat them, have a Trick user somewhere. Trick is so much more versatile than Perish Song. Replace it with T-Wave. Paralysis supports your team much more effectively since only have 1 fast Pokemon, Flygon.
 

Gates

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Well, the idea was to pick legendary creatures with abilities that somewhat matched what my Pokémon was there to do, not to pick good cards.
Oh, so this is a casual team then?
 

Zankoku

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Mesprit
- U-turn for Thunderbolt or Ice Beam
Okay, I'll mess around between Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/U-turn. It would admittedly give me a much stronger matchup against leads I've got trouble with.

Kingdra
- +8 Spd, -8 HP
The only base 95 Pokémon worth looking out for rarely run zero speed EVs. The current speed allows Kingdra to outrun a max speed Jolly Gyarados, which is the last thing that's important, as far as I can tell. If anything, if I wanted to make any EV changes, I would take out 24 speed EVs for more HP, bringing me down to 280 speed, which is just enough to outrun an Adamant Lucario.
- Remove Hydro Pump.
Just so you know, a STAB Hydro Pump is 180 power. At 180 * 0.85, it's still hitting on average for 153 power. A 2x super effective Hidden Power hits for 140 power. There's no Hidden Power I can think of that 4x's a threat that isn't already 2x'd by one of my STAB options. Also, Hydro Pump has 5 more accuracy than Stone Edge.

Celebi
- Remove Heal Bell
I've always liked the cleric option to deal with those mistakes, but if I find it seeing less use than anything else then I'll consider throwing in a better support move, like Reflect or Thunder Wave.

- Remove Perish Song
I don't think this would be a good idea. Once CroCune's boosted once, Grass Knot becomes a 3HKO at best, and it only gets worse from there, especially combined with Rest and Sleep Talk. I also added in Celebi very specifically for the pHazing option, as my Blissey had run Thunder Wave previously for reasons very similar to what you're saying, and found that I didn't really ever get a good opportunity to spread it around effectively.

- Trick
I'm pretty sure this is one of those attacks that doesn't work against a Substitute.
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
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Hydro Pump Kingdra is legit because there's nothing else you could put in that moveslot.
 

Riddle

Smash Lord
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Lol check the types you put on Kingdra's moves.

More seriously though, the weak link on your team seems to be Flygon. To fix your fighting type weakness and help you against stall (which you have a bit of trouble beating) I would suggest you replace it with Stallbreaker Gliscor:

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Jolly | Sand Veil
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Roost
- Toxic / U-turn

This solves your Lucario and non lead Machamp (they usually dont run Ice Punch) fairly well and can also beat Infernape in a pinch. Furthermore it is a good switch in to Rotom since it can Taunt to prevent WoW and is immune to Rotom's STAB electric attacks. Gliscor does all of the jobs you used Flygon for as well, except for scarf U-turn scouting. As a bonus, gliscor provides you with another answer to Breloom.
 

Gates

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Do you generally find much use for bumping month-and-a-half old threads, especially when the OP isn't active in the pokecenter anymore?
 

#HBC | Mac

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yes because i should no that the OP is no longer active and I also should refrain from asking a question just because the topic is old no matter how relevant the question. I apologize, I should clearly be banned. Bumping is such a srs offense

i've used this team in a couple of battles and i have yet to see the value in having celebi around
 

Zankoku

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Celebi is useful for:
comboing with Heatran
pHazing
comboing with Kingdra
killing Gyarados
cleric
dying

As was noted a long time ago in the thread, the thing most likely to change would be the Flygon, probably to the Gliscor.
 

PKNintendo

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It looks like a decent team, but I dislike the excessive use of choice items.

Try out Chesto rest Kingdra:
name: Chesto Rest
move 1: Rest
move 2: Outrage
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Dragon Dance
item: Chesto Berry / Lum Berry
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Adamant
evs: 144 HP / 160 Atk / 40 SpD / 164 Spe

Sets up on Heatran + Bulky waters and can it be disastrous for unprepared teams.


Mesprit is decent but I'd honestly prefer Colbur Azelf, who beats out more leads. It isn't mandatory. Your team is also horrendously weak to subgengar, who literally gets a kill everytime he switch in safely. (IE on Choiced EQ from Flygon, Recover or Heal Bell Celebi etc)

I'd recommend running Specially bulky Heatran to deal with him.
 
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