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Orca's Dojo - Toon Link's Moveset & Gameplay Thread

FalKoopa

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Welcome to Toon Link's Moveset and Gameplay Thread. Discuss all about his moveset, his custom moves, and all aspects of his gameplay here!

Toon Link's Complete Moveset - A Big Thanks to JoeInky
We're looking at Toon Link this time, who was probably my first real main in Brawl, I loved carrying my friends across the stage with Fairs and Bairs and completely outzoning them with arrows and boomerangs and throwing them into bombs I'd thrown earlier whenever I got the chance.

I haven't had much chance to play him properly in this game other than to earn customs, just because there's so many other characters I want to put time into first, but his customs are pretty cool after the disappointment of ROB and Olimar so this post should be a bit more interesting, he also has one of Young Links specials from Melee, stay tuned to find out which one! (it's the fire arrows).

Neutral Special 1 (Hero's Bow)



Toon Link draws back his bow and lets loose an arrow when you release the button, you can hold it indefinitely and the arrow damage and range increases with charge time, up to a certain point.

One change from Brawl is that an arrow will no longer exist until it hits the ground or goes offstage if I remember rightly, instead disappearing when it goes just under the vertical level at which it was fired.

Will travel the entirety of Battlefield and more when fully charged, but only goes about halfway at minimum charge.

The damage at minimum charge is 4% and at max charge it goes up to 12%, the endlag on the move is about the same as Brawl but you're no longer able to cancel it, it always plays the full animation.

Neutral Special 2 (Fire Arrows)



This variation is very similar to what I remember Young Link's neutral special working like in Melee, they fall drastically quicker, only travelling 1/3rd of Battlefield at full charge, but they stay in the ground for 2 seconds, damaging anyone who touches them.

The arrows do less damage whilst flying though, doing only 2% at minimum charge and 7% at maximum charge. They do 6% damage to anyone who touches them whilst they're on the ground, which isn't affected by charge time.

There's also a smoke effect on the arrow this time around that's similar to Toon Link's bombs, but the arrows don't actually have an explosive effect, it's purely visual.

Neutral Special 3 (Piercing Arrows)



This time the arrows fly completely straight and go through enemies and projectiles, they don't fly as far, only going the length of Battlefield at full charge, and they don't do as much damage (1% at minimum charge and 6% at max charge).

The move doesn't seem to be any faster than the default, though the arrows themselves are quicker, so I don't see much use for this move in 1v1s, the fact that it goes through projectiles might be of use to some people, but I'd stick with the first two honestly.

Side Special 1 (Boomerang)

http://i.imgur.com/51d4KDm.jpg

Toon Link's Boomerang does what you'd expect it to if you have any idea what a Boomerang is: you throw it, it comes back to you.

You can adjust the angle you throw it at by pressing up or down during the startup and it will bounce off of any floors on the way out, the Boomerang will come back to you whenever it reaches it's max range (which is 2/3rds Battlefield if you smash the stick, 1/2 if you don't) or if it hits someone.

On the way out, it will do 8% damage up close and 5% at it's max range and on the way in it will do 3% damage, the knockback is greater on the way out but it's still minor and will only kill at very high percents.

If it comes back to you and you're not in an attack animation, a grab animation will play that stops you from doing anything for half a second, so always try to use a quick aerial or a jab/tilt to skip this animation.

Also if the Boomerang doesn't come back to you, you won't be able to use the move again until it's left the stage, so watch out for that.

Side Special 2 (Slow Boomerang)



Link throws a slower moving Boomerang that will always do 4% damage, no matter when or where it hits. The knockback is similar to the default, though it might be slightly less.

The fact that it's slower moving means that it's easier to catch and that you can guide it around the stage somewhat, causing it to make large curves until it's been out for a certain amount of time and it will stop tracking and just continue on in it's current direction.

Another property this version has is that the boomerang will disappear if it hits someone on the way back, meaning you can instantly use the move again, so you can actually combo the move into itself in certain circumstances, though it's not exactly a useful or substantial aspect of the move.

Side Special 3 (Fast Boomerang)



Link throws a faster moving Boomerang that does 3% damage on the way out and 1% on the way in, instead of returning to you, it returns to the point at which it was thrown, meaning you can only catch it if you stay where you are or are on the exact same trajectory line as the boomerang. Knockback is similar to the default again.

Doesn't seem to be much else to this move, very similar to the Piercing Arrows, looks to be designed for FFA and doesn't really have much application in 1v1.

Up Special 1 (Spin Attack)



Toon Link charges his blade and then spins around, sucking people in for lots of hits on the ground or doing only a few hits when used in the air.

When used in the air, it can't be charged and hits 5 times, doing 14% total damage and decent knockback on the final hit.

If you use it on the ground, the move can be charged and is multi-hit, doing 12% total damage and decent knockback at minimum charged and 19% total damage with slightly better knockback at maximum charge.

As far as recoveries go, it's not the best, it'll take you to the top platform of Battlefield from the base platform, but it's nothing to write home about.

Neutral Special 2 (Hurricane Spin)



Somewhat based on the Hurricane Spin, from The Wind Waker, which allowed Link to move across the ground whilst using the Spin Attack, this is basically a horizontal variant of the default spin attack.

It loses the multi-hit when you use it on the ground and it takes longer to charge to max strength, but it will do 16% damage and increased knockback at full charge (10% uncharged, knockback is slightly lower). You'll also move about 1/3rd of the distance of Battlefield in the direction you were facing, but there's no way to control the movement.

Used in the air, it's still multi-hit but it's a bit harder to get all of them to connect, doing a total of 9-10% damage. It takes you further when used in the air, going over half the distance of Battlefield, but the vertical distance will only just get you on top of the two side platforms.

Neutral Special 3 (Rising Slash)



This variation basically changes the final hit on the default Spin Attack to a shoryuken of sorts, giving you super armour on the final hit and a nice vertical jump.

The move takes a similar amount of time to charge and it keeps the multi-hit both grounded and airborne, the uncharged grounded and the aerial version both do 14% damage and less knockback than the default Spin Attack and the fully charged does 22% and similar knockback.

When used as a recovery, it travels about the same distance as the default does, vertically, but there's no horizontal control whatsoever.

Down Special 1 (Bombs)



Toon Link plucks a Bomb out of his pocket, which can be thrown and explodes on contact for 4% damage, if you catch someone in the blast radius instead, it will do 6-8% damage.

The bombs have a 5 second fuse and will hurt you for the same amount as they hurt others, they can be grabbed by others and used against you and you can still drop them on a platform without having them explode by pressing the grab button in midair just above a platform.

They won't explode on contact with yourself anymore though, so you can't throw one then spin attack it to refresh your recovery.

Down Special 2 (Sturdy Bombs)



These Bombs are much sturdier and heavier, they'll no longer explode on contact meaning you can easily use them for stage control and they fall much quicker meaning you can't throw them as far.

They do a lot less damage though, only around 1-2% and the blast radius is about half the size, but what they lack in power, they make up for in knockback, having what seems like almost double the knockback of the regular bombs, being able to kill at the low, low percent of 225! Though regular bombs can't even kill at 300%, so I guess it's something!

The fuse length on these bombs is only around 3 seconds though, so you can't keep them on stage for as long as you might have wanted.

Down Special 3 (Short-Fuse Bombs)



In this variation, the fuse on the Bomb is much shorter, it will explode after only 1.5 seconds, so you have to be quick and not spend too much time thinking what you're going to do with it.

To make up for the short fuse, these Bombs have a blast radius that's twice as large and does 10-13% damage, the knockback is also the best of the three, being able to kill at 160%, though the knockback is purely vertical so it doesn't set up for edgeguards, which are important in this game.

The fact that they explode so quickly means that you can't carry it for a while and make people scared of the threat of the bomb, and if you get interrupted during the throw animation by a projectile, you're probably not going to have time to throw it before it explodes so it can be a very risky option.

And yes, the fact that these bombs explode quickly means that you can use them in conjunction with your spin attack to basically recover from anywhere more easily than with default bombs, though the increased knockback might make you think twice about it (Also, if you mistime it with the Rising Slash, the bomb will explode during you're super armour and you'll go into special fall, so watch out for that).

Final Thoughts

Bit more interesting that the last two, I think the default arrows are a good option but I'd need to play around with the Fire Arrows more, maybe combined with the Sturdy Bombs they'd give Toon Link some pretty good stage control options.

Recoveries are meh, the Rising Slash really isn't that good so I don't really bother with it, Hurricane Spin is pretty cool though, feels good to use.

Boomerang I'd just stick with the default, not enough significant changes to the others for me to care, although the Slow Boomerang is fun, the Fast Boomerang one seems pointless.
 
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Curious Villager

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Well I kinda already posted in the Toon Link thread what his spin off variations in his moveset could be.

Neutral special: Fire Arrows, Ice Arrows.
Side special: Fire Boomerang, Ice Boomerang.
Up special: Great Spin, Hurricane Spin.
Down Special: Remote Bombs, Bomb Chu.

All of them are at least related to one "Toon" Zelda game except for the Great Spin, couldn't think of anything else for it. But the Hurricane Spin is a must!
 

Ryan.

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^ Those. I would love to see the Hurricane Spin as well, and some more Wind Waker elements.
 

Krazy4Krash

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Fire and Ice arrows would travel less quickly and take longer to charge, I assume, in cost of doing more damage, and in the case of Ice Arrows, freezing the opponent. For this reason, they would be the slowest, I believe.

I love the thought of having the Fire and Ice Boomerang, as well, inspired by Spirit Tracks. It'll be fun to mix up the elements along with the Bow.
 

Protom

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I was thinking that the boomerang could have an ice variant, and the bow instead has a bow of light option (both of these are taken from spirit tracks)
 

kazrisk

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Or perhaps Toon Link's boomerang follows multiple targets, like how in Wind Waker you can aim it to attack several enemies?
 

Curious Villager

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Well thanks to @JoeInky we finally know all of Toon Link's moveset costumization.
JoeInky said:
We're looking at Toon Link this time, who was probably my first real main in Brawl, I loved carrying my friends across the stage with Fairs and Bairs and completely outzoning them with arrows and boomerangs and throwing them into bombs I'd thrown earlier whenever I got the chance.

I haven't had much chance to play him properly in this game other than to earn customs, just because there's so many other characters I want to put time into first, but his customs are pretty cool after the disappointment of ROB and Olimar so this post should be a bit more interesting, he also has one of Young Links specials from Melee, stay tuned to find out which one! (it's the fire arrows).

Neutral Special 1 (Hero's Bow)



Toon Link draws back his bow and lets loose an arrow when you release the button, you can hold it indefinitely and the arrow damage and range increases with charge time, up to a certain point.

One change from Brawl is that an arrow will no longer exist until it hits the ground or goes offstage if I remember rightly, instead disappearing when it goes just under the vertical level at which it was fired.

Will travel the entirety of Battlefield and more when fully charged, but only goes about halfway at minimum charge.

The damage at minimum charge is 4% and at max charge it goes up to 12%, the endlag on the move is about the same as Brawl but you're no longer able to cancel it, it always plays the full animation.

Neutral Special 2 (Fire Arrows)



This variation is very similar to what I remember Young Link's neutral special working like in Melee, they fall drastically quicker, only travelling 1/3rd of Battlefield at full charge, but they stay in the ground for 2 seconds, damaging anyone who touches them.

The arrows do less damage whilst flying though, doing only 2% at minimum charge and 7% at maximum charge. They do 6% damage to anyone who touches them whilst they're on the ground, which isn't affected by charge time.

There's also a smoke effect on the arrow this time around that's similar to Toon Link's bombs, but the arrows don't actually have an explosive effect, it's purely visual.

Neutral Special 3 (Piercing Arrows)



This time the arrows fly completely straight and go through enemies and projectiles, they don't fly as far, only going the length of Battlefield at full charge, and they don't do as much damage (1% at minimum charge and 6% at max charge).

The move doesn't seem to be any faster than the default, though the arrows themselves are quicker, so I don't see much use for this move in 1v1s, the fact that it goes through projectiles might be of use to some people, but I'd stick with the first two honestly.

Side Special 1 (Boomerang)

http://i.imgur.com/51d4KDm.jpg

Toon Link's Boomerang does what you'd expect it to if you have any idea what a Boomerang is: you throw it, it comes back to you.

You can adjust the angle you throw it at by pressing up or down during the startup and it will bounce off of any floors on the way out, the Boomerang will come back to you whenever it reaches it's max range (which is 2/3rds Battlefield if you smash the stick, 1/2 if you don't) or if it hits someone.

On the way out, it will do 8% damage up close and 5% at it's max range and on the way in it will do 3% damage, the knockback is greater on the way out but it's still minor and will only kill at very high percents.

If it comes back to you and you're not in an attack animation, a grab animation will play that stops you from doing anything for half a second, so always try to use a quick aerial or a jab/tilt to skip this animation.

Also if the Boomerang doesn't come back to you, you won't be able to use the move again until it's left the stage, so watch out for that.

Side Special 2 (Slow Boomerang)



Link throws a slower moving Boomerang that will always do 4% damage, no matter when or where it hits. The knockback is similar to the default, though it might be slightly less.

The fact that it's slower moving means that it's easier to catch and that you can guide it around the stage somewhat, causing it to make large curves until it's been out for a certain amount of time and it will stop tracking and just continue on in it's current direction.

Another property this version has is that the boomerang will disappear if it hits someone on the way back, meaning you can instantly use the move again, so you can actually combo the move into itself in certain circumstances, though it's not exactly a useful or substantial aspect of the move.

Side Special 3 (Fast Boomerang)



Link throws a faster moving Boomerang that does 3% damage on the way out and 1% on the way in, instead of returning to you, it returns to the point at which it was thrown, meaning you can only catch it if you stay where you are or are on the exact same trajectory line as the boomerang. Knockback is similar to the default again.

Doesn't seem to be much else to this move, very similar to the Piercing Arrows, looks to be designed for FFA and doesn't really have much application in 1v1.

Up Special 1 (Spin Attack)



Toon Link charges his blade and then spins around, sucking people in for lots of hits on the ground or doing only a few hits when used in the air.

When used in the air, it can't be charged and hits 5 times, doing 14% total damage and decent knockback on the final hit.

If you use it on the ground, the move can be charged and is multi-hit, doing 12% total damage and decent knockback at minimum charged and 19% total damage with slightly better knockback at maximum charge.

As far as recoveries go, it's not the best, it'll take you to the top platform of Battlefield from the base platform, but it's nothing to write home about.

Neutral Special 2 (Hurricane Spin)



Somewhat based on the Hurricane Spin, from The Wind Waker, which allowed Link to move across the ground whilst using the Spin Attack, this is basically a horizontal variant of the default spin attack.

It loses the multi-hit when you use it on the ground and it takes longer to charge to max strength, but it will do 16% damage and increased knockback at full charge (10% uncharged, knockback is slightly lower). You'll also move about 1/3rd of the distance of Battlefield in the direction you were facing, but there's no way to control the movement.

Used in the air, it's still multi-hit but it's a bit harder to get all of them to connect, doing a total of 9-10% damage. It takes you further when used in the air, going over half the distance of Battlefield, but the vertical distance will only just get you on top of the two side platforms.

Neutral Special 3 (Rising Slash)



This variation basically changes the final hit on the default Spin Attack to a shoryuken of sorts, giving you super armour on the final hit and a nice vertical jump.

The move takes a similar amount of time to charge and it keeps the multi-hit both grounded and airborne, the uncharged grounded and the aerial version both do 14% damage and less knockback than the default Spin Attack and the fully charged does 22% and similar knockback.

When used as a recovery, it travels about the same distance as the default does, vertically, but there's no horizontal control whatsoever.

Down Special 1 (Bombs)



Toon Link plucks a Bomb out of his pocket, which can be thrown and explodes on contact for 4% damage, if you catch someone in the blast radius instead, it will do 6-8% damage.

The bombs have a 5 second fuse and will hurt you for the same amount as they hurt others, they can be grabbed by others and used against you and you can still drop them on a platform without having them explode by pressing the grab button in midair just above a platform.

They won't explode on contact with yourself anymore though, so you can't throw one then spin attack it to refresh your recovery.

Down Special 2 (Sturdy Bombs)



These Bombs are much sturdier and heavier, they'll no longer explode on contact meaning you can easily use them for stage control and they fall much quicker meaning you can't throw them as far.

They do a lot less damage though, only around 1-2% and the blast radius is about half the size, but what they lack in power, they make up for in knockback, having what seems like almost double the knockback of the regular bombs, being able to kill at the low, low percent of 225! Though regular bombs can't even kill at 300%, so I guess it's something!

The fuse length on these bombs is only around 3 seconds though, so you can't keep them on stage for as long as you might have wanted.

Down Special 3 (Short-Fuse Bombs)



In this variation, the fuse on the Bomb is much shorter, it will explode after only 1.5 seconds, so you have to be quick and not spend too much time thinking what you're going to do with it.

To make up for the short fuse, these Bombs have a blast radius that's twice as large and does 10-13% damage, the knockback is also the best of the three, being able to kill at 160%, though the knockback is purely vertical so it doesn't set up for edgeguards, which are important in this game.

The fact that they explode so quickly means that you can't carry it for a while and make people scared of the threat of the bomb, and if you get interrupted during the throw animation by a projectile, you're probably not going to have time to throw it before it explodes so it can be a very risky option.

And yes, the fact that these bombs explode quickly means that you can use them in conjunction with your spin attack to basically recover from anywhere more easily than with default bombs, though the increased knockback might make you think twice about it (Also, if you mistime it with the Rising Slash, the bomb will explode during you're super armour and you'll go into special fall, so watch out for that).

Final Thoughts

Bit more interesting that the last two, I think the default arrows are a good option but I'd need to play around with the Fire Arrows more, maybe combined with the Sturdy Bombs they'd give Toon Link some pretty good stage control options.

Recoveries are meh, the Rising Slash really isn't that good so I don't really bother with it, Hurricane Spin is pretty cool though, feels good to use.

Boomerang I'd just stick with the default, not enough significant changes to the others for me to care, although the Slow Boomerang is fun, the Fast Boomerang one seems pointless.

1211 or 2212 for me, I think.
Looks pretty interesting I guess. And I'm happy that we've at least got the Fire Arrows and the Hurricane Spin in some form. :)
 

AnOkayDM

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I'm glad to finally hear about these. Both arrow variations intrigue me, though the Fire Arrows probably a little more so, at least until I can play with the piercing ones. Either the default boomerang or the fast one sound interesting. I'll likely stick with the default Spin Attack, but I'll mess around with the others as well. I'm also interested in the short-fuse bombs.

Thanks for posting this!
 

TLMSheikant

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I'm interested in the Fire arrows and the Rising Slash. Doesnt seem like normal arrows will be any good this time around so might as well change em to something else. Rang and bombs are already good enough and the customs are like nerfing them. Rising slash could be a decent OOS option, thats why it interests me.
 

Disfunkshunal

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@ TLMSheikant TLMSheikant , long time no see.


Since we can't shda anymore the and they fly so slowly, their usefulness has definitely taken a hit. They'd still be descent for edge guarding but Toon Link has other tools to do that as well. It's because of that that I think fire arrows would be the best version of neutral B. Toon Link excels at mid range and the fire arrows travel far enough to still support that. The fact that they last also helps with ground control like others have mentioned and again helps Toon Link maintain his distance.

For the boomerang, I'm actually leading towards the fast one. The slow one seems too slow to really abuse unless we're talking about edge guarding but that's really situational. The fast one better allows Toon Link to disrupt the opponent and since it doesn't come all the way back we don't have to worry about potential lag.

All of the bombs. Just, all of them. Seriously though, I'm liking all of them for different reasons, I have to test them out to see which one I think would be most effective.

Finally, I'd probably go with the OG spin attacl.
 

FalKoopa

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Thanks for the info. Short Fuse bomb spam might actually work. :p

I'll have to test them when I get the game.
 

FalKoopa

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Revamped the OP and stickied the thread.

I hope Mega Bidoof doesn't mind me taking over his post. :p
 
Last edited:

Kunai KazeKun

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Got a question. I dont own the game right now so I have to ask people who own it.

Judging from the pick for the custom Bumerang 3:

It looks like it goes through the other characters. But in the description I cant find anything like this.
Can someone test if the 3rd custom moves goes through character's and items?
 
Last edited:

Riskman

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I gotta say, I'm really liking how the Short Fuse bombs look to be. Twice the blast radius and the same damage/more damage than most of TL's moves for not really being able to do any shenanigans with throwing them upwards is more than worth it to me, I just hope that it'll be tourney legal. Fire arrows using the Wind Waker smoke effect is cool too.
 

Forlorn Penguin

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So now that the game is available to everyone, how have people been liking Toon Link's custom moves? Any preferred options/builds?
 

Yackabean

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I don't personally like any of the custom movesets. The boomerang options are awful. The fire arrows are a nice touch but I feel like they don't do well enough. The bomb options are col as well. Would say the only recommended custom moveset I'd use is the short fused bombs.
 

Chinaux

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Am I the only one who doesn't play with customizations? I doubt that they will be allowed in competitive play.
 

Mota

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I feel like the fire arrows have potential against ground based characters like Lil Mac. As they fall so short they could help the close range game.

The short fused bombs deal good damage however they blow up too quick you lose all your bomb techs, not worth the trade off imo.

The custom boomerangs seems like they could have potential. UpB customs are pretty lacklustre.

I'm definitely using fire arrows. Possibly rising UpB slash, and fast boomerang test.

Video of the customs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeqTXw3o_LI
 
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Yackabean

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The boomerangs are egh.
Only thing I think is useful is the rising up B.
As for stuff against Lil' Mac. We don't need fire arrows. He's already cake-walk if you stick to your normal default projectiles and as long as you take him to a stage like Prism Tower, Battlefield or Yoshi's Island he will struggle.
Little Mac has nightmares when he goes to sleep. And they are all about platforms. He see's platforms and he hisses like a cat and runs for his life.
 
D

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I've found fire arrows to be useful for preventing characters from approaching you on the ground. Also, since fire arrows, unlike normal arrows, can still do something after hitting the ground, I've found them useful against characters that tend to fire a lot of projectiles that eat up the normal arrows. Using a fire arrow on the stage can also be good at keeping enemies away from the edge when you're trying to recover.

As for the floating boomerang, I think it's really underrated. There have been a lot of times when my opponent thought they were safe from the boomerang, so they let their guard down and got hit.

If you're feeling lucky, the rising upB makes a good kill move, which certainly helps with TL's killing problem. It seems to freak a lot of people out when you're trying to recover, too, so they'll be less likely to get in your way. If they decide to try anyway they usually end up flying from the move's last hit.
 

Beethro

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does anyone bomb themselves as a mixup lmao
i was playing for glory and zss was shieldin by the edge and i was recovering high with a bomb in hand, looked like this

and right before i hit the ground i threw the bomb downwards, it hit her shield and sent me right above her and she immediately shieldgrab whiffed, and because of her laggy tether grab i got a free down air which apparently killed her at like 105% or somethin. Although i was kinda 2 stocking her so who knows if itll work on anyone better

lmao idk i personally have a pretty big problem with gettin shieldgrabbed (so much that i picked up wario so i could just chomp shields instead). I have been a link clone believer since link clones existed so if bombing myself is what it takes to make this lil guy work for me then so be it.

also zss is my least favorite character ever and the more anti-zss tech the better.
 

Mota

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Quoting for the picture 10/10.

I suppose it could be used as a mindgame lol. Although damaging myself doesn't sound appealing. I guess worst case you blow yourself up, take damage and nothing comes of it. Best case they don't shield and you get a follow up from bomb. Middle ground you blow up and get a dair/w.e. I'd still advise against it, but if it works it works.
 

Beethro

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
34
NNID
dernCereal
3DS FC
2621-3736-4780
i rarely do it intentionally but the few times i do, im usually trying to dodge somethin cause like the 4% from the bomb is insignificant compared to the grab zss woulda landed there and theres no way they were gonna actually read somethin like that so aside from the 4% its pretty safe lol
also a note, tink's boomerang is near invisible on brinstar omega
 

Yackabean

"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
183
Location
Scotland, Dundee
NNID
jack1996
3DS FC
3539-9728-7714
That bright blooming yellow wooden stick isn't visible? I need to look in to this I've never noticed lol.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
So I've been playing around with TL's custom moves a bunch, and I'm starting to think that sliding spin + short fuse bombs might actually be an okay combination. TL is super easy to gimp with the normal spin attack and a lot of characters have moves that are especially good at gimping low recoveries, so the sliding spin could possibly be a huge help in those match-ups. If you get too far below the stage (where you're usually screwed no matter which recovery you're using), you can obviously just pull out the short fuse bomb, making up for TL's lost vertical recovery. The end result is that you have far more recovery options. The bomb could also be great for gimping people who are offstage, since it doesn't rely on the bomb connecting with the opponent like the other bombs do, and blast radius and knockback are amazing. Camping with it could be scary for aggressive opponents, too. BLC being gone would also no longer be a bad thing for us.

No matter how much I try playing around with the timed bombs, I can't see anything they could possibly do that the fire arrows don't already do better besides helping you recover better than the normal bombs without the risk of KOing you like the short-fuse bombs.

Maybe I'm trying too hard here... I've been playing around with TL's custom moves for a while and trying to find a good combination, but it's not going very well.
:170:
 
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