Options out of Up Throw at Low Percent

[BairSSBM]

What are the best options for puff when I up throw a spacie at a percent too low for a KO rest? I guess we can assume no DI, but if you can include worst case scenarios (good DI to left, or right) that would be awesome.

 

[Trezz]

Pretty much the only option people go for in this situation is up-throw->SHFFL up-air->regrab->up-throw->rest, since the up-throw and up-air will almost always put spacies at a high enough percent for rest to KO (unless it sends them the wrong way and they have good DI). Unless they have perfect DI on the up-throw, you should be able to get this consistently.

The only thing that would really mess this up is if they're close enough to a platform that they can DI towards that to stop the combo. If you're ever near a platform, you should pretty much expect the spacie to try to DI into it, since they'll have a better chance of survival there at least. Here you can either go for a reactionary rest from under the platform, or just follow up with a platform tech chase. If you can get a grab here, it's pretty common that Foxes will miss the DI on the up-throw the second time and you can get your rest here. Otherwise it'll just lead to either another platform tech chase if they DI in, or possibly a chance to hit them offstage if they DI out!

lol this is why spacies don't like getting grabbed at low percents, because if the Puff is on point it will often devastate them. If you find them DI-ing your up-throw well consistently, f-throw/b-throw mixups will have a better chance of getting them offstage because chances are they'll be holding DI out towards the platform already.

 

[AKIR4]

If you miss the L-Cancel is it not possible to land the rest, if they are grabbed at 0%?

 

[Trezz]

If you miss the L-Cancel is it not possible to land the rest, if they are grabbed at 0%?

On the SHFFL up-air->regrab? Yes, if you miss the L-cancel then you won't have enough time for the regrab into rest. If the first grab is at 0%, to be honest I forget if they'll be out of stun by the time they hit the ground and can act, or if they can only tech roll away. The idea that the combo is possible makes me think that they'll still be in stun when they hit the ground though, since otherwise the regrab wouldn't necessarily always be guaranteed in the first place.

So perhaps if the endlag of up-air is short enough, you'll have time for a jab reset->regrab to continue the chain if they miss the tech, or maybe a SH pound as a tech chase? I'll have to lab this out to see if it's even possible at all (my gut tells me I'm being overly optimistic here lol), but if it does it could work as a worst-case scenario backup plan if you miss the L-cancel?

Edit: That is all incorrect, I totally forgot that at that low of a percent, up-throw->up-air doesn't put either spacie in tumble at all, so there are no guaranteed followups from missing the L-cancel since no tech chase situation would ever happen then.

 

[T^2]

Up throw up air regrab or up throw into back air works. I generally go for the back air because not a lot of people expect it so their di is perfect for low percent wall of pain startup (up and away from puff). Also, most people start di'ng for the second up throw after the up air, so its not nearly as guarenteed of a rest as you are expecting

 

[T^2]

Pretty much the only option people go for in this situation is up-throw->SHFFL up-air->regrab->up-throw->rest, since the up-throw and up-air will almost always put spacies at a high enough percent for rest to KO (unless it sends them the wrong way and they have good DI). Unless they have perfect DI on the up-throw, you should be able to get this consistently.

The only thing that would really mess this up is if they're close enough to a platform that they can DI towards that to stop the combo. If you're ever near a platform, you should pretty much expect the spacie to try to DI into it, since they'll have a better chance of survival there at least. Here you can either go for a reactionary rest from under the platform, or just follow up with a platform tech chase. If you can get a grab here, it's pretty common that Foxes will miss the DI on the up-throw the second time and you can get your rest here. Otherwise it'll just lead to either another platform tech chase if they DI in, or possibly a chance to hit them offstage if they DI out!

lol this is why spacies don't like getting grabbed at low percents, because if the Puff is on point it will often devastate them. If you find them DI-ing your up-throw well consistently, f-throw/b-throw mixups will have a better chance of getting them offstage because chances are they'll be holding DI out towards the platform already.

Personally I don't agree with the fact that foxes miss the Di on the second throw. By up air regrabbing them while they are inputting di for the first up throw, you increase the chance that they are gonna di the second up throw properly. Not like it matters at the percent they'll be At ( around 27 if I remember correctly) but still their di is most of the time going to improve on the second throw

 

[Trezz]

Personally I don't agree with the fact that foxes miss the Di on the second throw. By up air regrabbing them while they are inputting di for the first up throw, you increase the chance that they are gonna di the second up throw properly. Not like it matters at the percent they'll be At ( around 27 if I remember correctly) but still their di is most of the time going to improve on the second throw

Yeah that's a fair point, I guess I'm just used to the people I play regularly missing the DI the second time, probably because they expect the tech trap rest rather than a regrab. But still at least at that point, that situation usually ends in your favor no matter how they DI anyway!

 

[T^2]

Yeah that's a fair point, I guess I'm just used to the people I play regularly missing the DI the second time, probably because they expect the tech trap rest rather than a regrab. But still at least at that point, that situation usually ends in your favor no matter how they DI anyway!

Yea it's not like it really matters in the long run, because you can get the rest guaranteed as long as they're below 40 I think. One fun mixup i found was intentionally whiffing the up air and jab resetting to rest or fsmash instead of the regrab. I figured it out when I was complete trash at doing the regrab combo, and it works a ton. Let's just say no one ever expects that to happen lol.

 

[AKIR4]

Two questions,

a) U-throw Rest works on Falcon, would this work on Ganon? (Roommate is a Ganon, must make him cry.)

b) Whenever I play a species and get the grab, I throw them up, but they always seem to go to far or too fast for me to react with a rest. It really doesn't seem as guaranteed as I've been reading. How do I practice to pull off against real people, what could I be doing wrong? It's frustrating to be the new player at my locals who is known for missing everything single one of his rest setups (Yes, they are at right percents.)

 

[T^2]

Two questions,

a) U-throw Rest works on Falcon, would this work on Ganon? (Roommate is a Ganon, must make him cry.)

b) Whenever I play a species and get the grab, I throw them up, but they always seem to go to far or too fast for me to react with a rest. It really doesn't seem as guaranteed as I've been reading. How do I practice to pull off against real people, what could I be doing wrong? It's frustrating to be the new player at my locals who is known for missing everything single one of his rest setups (Yes, they are at right percents.)

do you single jump or double jump into rest? if you only jump once i recommend double jumping as fast as you can into the rest. try it in training mode at like 40 percent until you land id say 20 or 30 in a row. just remember that people di differently, so you need to follow them with your jumps. training mode and lvl 9 cpus are great ways to practice rest setups, once you get the hang of the timing on bots,try playing someone else so you can see what it's like to do the setup with di. also, sometimes they will di it too far away to follow up with rest. if thats they case try fair to knock them off of the stage.

 

[AKIR4]

do you single jump or double jump into rest? if you only jump once i recommend double jumping as fast as you can into the rest. try it in training mode at like 40 percent until you land id say 20 or 30 in a row. just remember that people di differently, so you need to follow them with your jumps. training mode and lvl 9 cpus are great ways to practice rest setups, once you get the hang of the timing on bots,try playing someone else so you can see what it's like to do the setup with di. also, sometimes they will di it too far away to follow up with rest. if thats they case try fair to knock them off of the stage.

I'll start trying to double jump and see if my intuition will start picking up on the openings, just got keep working on it, thank you. But my question on Ganon, do you know anything about this?

 

[T^2]

no clue, lab it out when you have the chance. i think he's a little too heavy but i don't know for sure.

 

[Trezz]

Two questions,

a) U-throw Rest works on Falcon, would this work on Ganon? (Roommate is a Ganon, must make him cry.)

b) Whenever I play a species and get the grab, I throw them up, but they always seem to go to far or too fast for me to react with a rest. It really doesn't seem as guaranteed as I've been reading. How do I practice to pull off against real people, what could I be doing wrong? It's frustrating to be the new player at my locals who is known for missing everything single one of his rest setups (Yes, they are at right percents.)

a) Careful, up-throw rest is not actually guaranteed on Falcon!! He's slightly too heavy to actually make it a true combo. However, you can usually get the rest anyway because a lot of people will react by panic jumping which puts Falcon in a spot where his only option is to dair (which you can meteor cancel->rest, but tough to get on reaction) or just eat the rest anyway. If he doesn't panic jump, you won't get any guaranteed setups from the throw.

Since Ganon's slightly heavier, I don't know how much his added weight adds to the endlag of Puff's throw, but I figure that if you'll get anything out of up-throw it'd be a similar situation to Falcon's. That's good because if Ganon panic jumps, his dair is too slow to save himself like Falcon can.

b) T^2 pretty much already answered this, but yeah if spacies are at around high 30s (from practice it feels like 35% is the threshold but idk the exact number) you have to start double jumping to get the guaranteed up-throw->rest. You can't get the rest directly if they DI perfectly to the side, but the classic Hbox setup is to SH rising pound->rest if they do that and it doesn't already get them offstage/on a platform.

 

[rivers]

Two questions,

a) U-throw Rest works on Falcon

This isn't really true. It only works on scrubby falcons. It's not guaranteed, the falcon has to mess up pretty hard for it to work.

 

[rivers]

also, three months later, I'd say my favorite low percent uthrow follow up is falling uair regrab into follow your dreams