Optimal Action out of Down-B?

[QuickLava]

I'm talking specifically about the "burying" hit of the Flip Jump, when you come down and shove your opponent into the ground. So far it's varied against who I'm playing with and what percentage they're at. On my nooby friends and brother who don't really mash very fast, I can usually get off a fully charged Paralyzer shot, then I footstool into D-Air so that I can either set up for some sort of combo at low percents or give myself some better stage positioning or an edge guarding opportunity at high percents. This has several problems, the biggest of which being that it doesn't always work. Most competent players are able to consistently mash out of it before the Paralyzer shot comes out, so what are the optimal things to do in that situation? New to ZSS so any help would be awesome, thanks.

 

[DeLux]

I'm gonna make a video on maximizing combos off of Dsmash and Grounded Flip Stool soon.

 

[pichuthedk]

Actually I think Down smash is generally the better option since it can stun them which sets them up to get launched. Thats Interesting regarding your use of the fully charged paralyzer shot (especially the footstool dair which I have done my self but generally is without the stun more like dumb luck they didn't even shield) , Funny the one thing I over use and get punished for and It had never occurred to me to try that.

Yes I know Players will mash out consistently like OP said how ever in most of my experiences with the burying part of down special they either mash and get out or they get punished every which is like 7/10 times.

When I do this I always decide to be greedy unless they are at low % >60% UNLESS it is a stage like BF in that case I will wait and charge down smash or even just throw it out because I catch people a lot.

My main reasons for going for d-Smash after burying players at moderate %s is 2 simple reasons.
1. I'm Expecting them to mash anyways and down smash is generally safe when you use it properly,
2. I know that some of us out there have gotten those "wait what?" down special implants where your opponent was shielding and either let the shield go to early OR got shield poked Which I think has to do with the fact that Zero suits flip kick footstool hitbox is deceptive in such a way where there have been times where I was merely landing beside a shielded opponent and shield poked the bottom left/right of their shield.

When I get the implants on players I maneuver my self so that I land right beside them as close as possible to get the best stun time, After they are stunned I up B them since it does a fair amount of %.

If they are consistenly getting out of up b then I do that little trick I mentioned in the zss shorts social about fox trotting past them and then up bing so that when Samus kicks they fly into it at the same time or as shes following through. (VERY solid mixup especially when they have messed up their DI into it causing much earlier kills.)

 

[TeaTwoTime]

My favourite follow-up after grounding opponents at high percentages is down-smash to up-B (or just up-B). It's an incredible kill option and a properly positioned up-B (which is much easier to get when they're stunned or in the ground) almost always connects through to the final hit. I'm not sure what percentage they need to be at for optimal mashing to not be quick enough to escape this, though.

 

[zelz]

Charged up smash is also a solid option because it can pick up the opponent with a hit box right in front of zss and at the same time if they mash out, the hit box stays out long enough that it actually can cover most of their aerial approaches and if timed properly, even an air dodge. It's optimal sub up-b kill percentages.

 

[kyxsune]

It really depends on their size, If they are smaller than me, I use up smash or down b to up smash (since its easier for smaller charachters to DI out of up B). If they are at least my height, or humanoid, I use a straight up B to fast fall.

 

[Roflcopters]

I try to down smash into fsmash/upb at higher percents and usually upsmash or uair at lower percents since they often mash out during the exaggerated flipping motion after you hit them.

 

[pichuthedk]

man reading about all these zero suits who share the same joy as me from down b ground pounds -> down smash > up b is making me all giddy.

for someone reason when I saw she could do that from down b during the E3, I had a feeling the down smash up b follow up would be guaranteed..

 

[Sadface]

So i found out you can wall jump with down b by pressing up. Though this is not a normal wall jump as you stay in the down b animation and retain the ability to do the kick, do nothing and end the down b, or if you happen to be on a stage with 2 walls next to each other, rapidly down b wall jump up to 3 times.

Testing this on final D you can drop off down b toward the stage without grabbing the edge, press up to wall jump (down b version) and do the kick to edgeguard someone who is recovering low, the double jump up b/ side b and recover.

Dunno if this is known yet, I haven't seen it anywhere yet.

 

[kyxsune]

So i found out you can wall jump with down b by pressing up. Though this is not a normal wall jump as you stay in the down b animation and retain the ability to do the kick, do nothing and end the down b, or if you happen to be on a stage with 2 walls next to each other, rapidly down b wall jump up to 3 times.

Testing this on final D you can drop off down b toward the stage without grabbing the edge, press up to wall jump (down b version) and do the kick to edgeguard someone who is recovering low, the double jump up b/ side b and recover.

Dunno if this is known yet, I haven't seen it anywhere yet.

Twas in Brawl, but the trailing kick makes it hard to recover if your gimped sometimes :D

 

[Sadface]

Ahh I see, I never played her in brawl and never saw salem or nick riddle do it.

When I was messing around I used the normal down b, not down b 2 if thats what you meant by trailing and I stayed relatively close to the edge even after the kick. Yeah you could get gimped but I suppose thats the risk of edgeguarding someone with it.

But if its not optimal then oh well.