OP or am I just good with Ivy?

[Kevandre]

I have decided that I care not whatsoever what Sakurai does with SSB4 if I get the Project M Ivysaur.. I have never been this good with any character in Smash. Which makes me wonder if Ivysaur is just OP and I'm getting a big head over nothing. What say you guys?

 

[Burning Boom]

While I guess we can't be sure until the meta-game develops, and Ivy does have some very good tools and awesome stage control, I really don't think it's OP.

 

[Sudai]

Ivy's weaknesses are hard to pinpoint if you don't play her so most players have difficulty figuring them out. 90% of people will cry OP or unfair the first time they play against Ivy but start pointing out her weaknesses and how to abuse them to people, suddenly it's just a 'really good but no OP' character.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

lol what weaknesses?
lack of kill/gimp moves?
poor reach?
bad recovery?
worthless aerials?
poor combo game?
useless projectiles?
weak throws with no setups or kill power?
a garbage neutral b?
^ those are things ivy doesn't have

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

It's not OP, but Ivysaur does have some very silly tools. The plant Poke is being adjusted in 3.0, so look forward to that.

 

[Rawkuz]

Ivy can control alot of the stage. With razorleaf when shielded is an auto grab, her downB controls tje air and it stuns you whwn connected, her upB kills at low percentage, her ftilt...omg that move is busted and her fsmash has hyper armor like squirtle. With all that said ivy is kinda op, but if you know all shes capable of and you play her smart, shes very beatable.

 

[Deleted member]

fsmash has hyper armor like squirtle.

No it doesn't.

2.6 Ivy is not overpowered, but she has a lot of obnoxiously good tools. She's receiving a lot of changes in 3.0. We're all just hoping she isn't as mediocre as 2.5 Ivy.

 

[Strong Badam]

She certainly doesn't leave much room for a good player to innovate, that's for sure.

 

[Meme]

I didn't know Ivy had an armored f-smash... ok...

And on topic I have to agree with Pwnz0rz, she does have some silly tools. i guess it's gonna take some time to get to the balance sweetspot with Ivy.

I'll be trying out the new characters in 3.0 but Ivy is a character I always return to...

 

[Rawkuz]

Oh well guess i was wrong. I honestly thought she did. Only because numerous times playing against people who use her i saw her fsmash go thru whatever it was i threw at her.

 

[ScaryPixel]

She certainly doesn't leave much room for a good player to innovate, that's for sure.

I understand innovating her, but not crippling her.

 

[Juker]

Where can you find a change log for 3.0? Wanting to know what's happening to ivysaur.

 

[Dng3]

A change log won't be out until after 3.0 is released. They hope to get it out within a few days of release I hear.

As for now, you can look around for streams of her (very few of them with actual Ivy mains) and dig around the forums for an idea of what's going to get changed in her move set.

 

[Juker]

I see, thanks dng3. Do you know any of the changes yourself, to save me some time?

 

[Dng3]

Yea no problem. But please remember these are all just based on mine and other people's observations and that things are always subject to change as per pmbr tradition. Nothing is concrete but I believe Ivy will be seeing the following changes:

-Fair: slower and does not hit opponents straight up anymore, or is easier to DI out of
-Bair: slower and has stronger knockback at the tip of the vines, not sure about the hits from inside
-Razorlead: significantly slower to start and decelerates like in 2.5. Also, not sure if it was just a single instance but I noticed it "lifts" the opponent as it hits them now when they're at mid-high percentages now instead of just keeping them on the ground. It may be possible to DI during the hit now actually.
-Seed Bomb: has a much slower falling speed. It was probably changed so that opponents can see it coming more easily instead of being hit as a surprise attack from above.
-Synthesis: Has different hit properties

There's likely more changes to come but those were more of the noticeable ones. One prediction of mine is that I think Ivy's air mobility is better, but that may be my eyes fooling me. Hope that helps!

 

[Juker]

It does. Thank you much!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's likely that she is terribly polarized in a way that makes it so that she either loses a matchup or ABSOLUTELY DESTROYS someone in an incredibly lopsided manner.

Come 3.0 in a little bit, you'll have your answer.

If you ask me, though, everyone is bad, myself included, Ivysaur or not.

 

[Strong Badam]

I understand innovating her, but not crippling her.

I think you misunderstand. I'm talking about her at the moment, not any type of changes. A player cannot cripple their own character.

 

[Thor]

If you ask me, though, everyone is bad, myself included, Ivysaur or not.

I'm not sure I understand...like, do you include M2K, Mango, Hbox, PP, Armada (yeah he's retired, w/e) (moving into Brawlish) Salem, Ally, Nairo, ADHD, those two in a team, they're all bad [list not comprehensive]? I mean I guess no one makes perfect reads all day every day but that's not bad...

Either you have some argument I've never seen before or you mean something else (or you just flatly think people suck and at that point I will probably agree to disagree until you have beaten all those players to prove they [like you] are bad). You have thoroughly confused me either way. Explication would be appreciated.

-----
More on topic:

Ivsaur is [almost undisputedly] good (I think a fair number of people agree top 5) but I'd be pushed to say OP - it's possible to deal with her recovery (edge-hog and trap them in the animation where she pops up then punish that pop-up, or hit her while she's hanging) and she's not that heavy so she can be knocked off-stage rather early [she doesn't have spectacular vertical endurance either] - she can be hard to approach for some characters if zoning very very well but pretty much every character has ways around it. At this point she's probably not OP.

And 3.0 probably has some nerfs coming for her (not tons but some were mentioned) so even if she is OP she'll be moved to less OP/just really good soon.

 

[jtm94]

I was reading up on some of M2K's thoughts on P:M and he places Ivysaur in 2.6b as the clear best in the game. And I think that's saying something. He also does talk about how everyone is kinda bad at the game, there's so much room for improvement still!!

I'm excited for 3.0 Ivy, I've like her for a while, but after I saw tons of people hop onto her for 2.6b I figured I'd wait it out for some changes. Too many new characters coming in...

 

[drsusredfish]

ivy is not good. ivy is evil.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

Ivy's doesn't seem OP. Just a really solid character with range like Marth and a spammable projectile. What I mostly see from Ivy users: RL > Grab. RL > Aerial if those to don't work. Stay back spam seed bomb and bair. Her onstage game is pretty damn good with her being able to cover vertical approaches with seed bomb, spammable razor leaf for frontal assaults, bair for anything else, and she gets a free stock every game due to Solarbeam. Solarbeam isn't like Aura Bomb where it can be avoided mostly except maybe when you're getting edgeguarded, but even then sometimes you can slide past it. Solarbeam you don't slide past. You jump up and get blasted. If you get hit with Razor Leaf and also get grabbed you're about to get to get blasted. If you don't approach Ivy directly from the front when she has a Solarbeam 9/10 times you got blasted. And what if Ivy just wants to store the beam to just **** with your approaches? I mean her onstage game is on par with with Falco if not better. She controls so many areas at one point in time. That's my problem with her. If her metagame was downpacked I think she'd be a hell of a problem for a good amount of chars.

 

[Rawkuz]

Ivy's busted!!!

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

I was reading up on some of M2K's thoughts on P:M and he places Ivysaur in 2.6b as the clear best in the game. And I think that's saying something. He also does talk about how everyone is kinda bad at the game, there's so much room for improvement still!!

I'm excited for 3.0 Ivy, I've like her for a while, but after I saw tons of people hop onto her for 2.6b I figured I'd wait it out for some changes. Too many new characters coming in...

Could you post a link to M2K's thoughts? I'm curious as to what he has to say, actually I kind of like hearing any high-level players opinion.

 

[Alteffor]

He really doesn't say anything more than that, but here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/c...mew2kings_ama_and_lots_of_other_stuff/cdoksg8
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/c...mew2kings_ama_and_lots_of_other_stuff/cdokflt

 

[jtm94]

Could you post a link to M2K's thoughts? I'm curious as to what he has to say, actually I kind of like hearing any high-level players opinion.

All he really said on his Reddit was that he knew Ivy was way too good, but he heard she was being fixed. Many people asked him about Project M and the characters and he consistently talked about Ivy being good Spacies being overrated, but Wolf has room to be high tier.

I hate when Ivy users themselves don't even understand how good razorleaf is... My friend mained Ivy before 2.6 and he was very decent, I didn't know Ivy had all of those tools... Then 2.6 came out and the biggest thing I noticed when playing him was how powerful RL was. It's going to be really cool seeing Ivy users develop their playstyle more.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Or see them all drop the character. A lot of people were dissatisfied with v2.5 Ivysaur, after all. :x

We'll see, though.

 

[Phaiyte]

She's not necessarily OP, but all of the good players only play her in one way because that's obviously the best way no matter what. An extreme amount of 2.6b tourney players have a pocket Ivy specifically because she's so easy to play and easy to get comfortable with, pretty much alleviating any matchup problems they don't want to deal with.

 

[SSS]

She's not necessarily OP, but all of the good players only play her in one way because that's obviously the best way no matter what. An extreme amount of 2.6b tourney players have a pocket Ivy specifically because she's so easy to play and easy to get comfortable with, pretty much alleviating any matchup problems they don't want to deal with.

lol your signature. there's no way you can play all of those characters effectively. and this coming from somebody who plays a lot of characters. . .ineffectively.

i'm glad ivy is worse now. now we can play her without fifty other people wanting to.

 

[Phaiyte]

lol your signature. there's no way you can play all of those characters effectively. and this coming from somebody who plays a lot of characters. . .ineffectively.

i'm glad ivy is worse now. now we can play her without fifty other people wanting to.

That's where you're sadly mistaken.

 

[SSS]

That's where you're sadly mistaken.

41 CHARACTER MONEY MATCH ME BRO.

 

[Phaiyte]

41 CHARACTER MONEY MATCH ME BRO.

26 if you count zelda and sheik as 1 character.

 

[SSS]

26 if you count zelda and sheik as 1 character.

FINE.

 

[Shade_]

You might be a good player, but, M2K has stated Ivy is in fact OP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlnxO4IMQ7E

So your character choice is definitely helping in your victories. Ivy will definitely help bad players, but Good players don't necessarily need Ivy.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

M2K has also made a lot of outright wrong statements about character placement. I remember when he said Game and Watch was the best character in Brawl after Bucket Braking was discovered...You can't just appeal to authority like that.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I love threads that have OP in the title.

It could be a combinations of things. It could just be the character's playstyle really 'clicks' with you or it could be that the people you play against aren't familiar with Ivy and/or aren't adapting well enough to beat you. I think Ivysaur is a solid character, I have for a good few versions, too, so Ivysaur's definitely a good choice.

And if you're enjoying them who cares if they're 'OP'? I don't think Ivysaur is, but if you enjoy playing a character you should stick to them.

This thread is old as **** whoooooooooops

 

[WizKid911]

Ivy is kind of OP, but at the same time the only time I fight an ivy is at tourneys. That one time a month or two isnt gonna help me learn the matchup. Bair is op. Razor leaf although the multiple hits is annoying it can be cancelled out with an attack. Her tilts are pretty beastly because they have multiple hits and they keep you at a distance. Im considering picking up ivy just for the sake of learning her, and helping a friend learn the matchup. Its sad but I have to... I hate ive -___-