Online Delay? unplayable?

[Greenpants]

how the hell do I know where the players I'm versing are from? lol, I'd like to take notes

Didn't see if this had been answered but after a game you can click view profile and see where they are located.

 

[Greenpants]

Ok sorry for the triple post here but I would love to see someone explain these results to me...

Wii U is basically touching the router. iPhone was done in the same room. Using testmy.net site.

(Down/Up)
Wii U LAN: 7.3 / 356k
Wii U wireless: 7.6 / 119k
iPhone 6 on wireless: 16.7 / 2.1

Those upload speeds are scary. You don't need a ton of bandwidth for gaming but 119k??? Wow.

 

[Ravengeance]

as sakurai has stated a cheep but easy choice is the adapter which you can easily find on amazon for a cheap price!

we will all prob end up buying adapters but it is still awful that we even have to. the wii u was made to play games online using a wireless connection. the fact it seemingly cannot do this (i play monster hunter 3 ultimate with no issues) but can't play smash 4 online. its really frustrating bc i don't really want to play offline alone against cpu's or do classic mode etc. i want to play against other people and right now can't.

 

[iMoLaTe]

^ this + an adapater probably wont even fix it

 

[iMoLaTe]

haxfactory, do you mind pm'ing me your ID so we could do some pre-lan adapter tests?

 

[Shuckle89]

I don't know what it is, really. I myself got a pretty crappy connection. I have an 8-mb connection which I have to share with like 12 people. Many times a day there is no internet and you have to restart the router to have it back. Yet, I pretty much never have lag whatoever. Except for the last couple of days. There have been some cases of input lag but normally I never experience lag. Doesn't matter how far away we live. It'll still be like playing offline when i play with someone on the other side of the world. Not just super smash. Any game is lagless most of the time.

 

[Greenpants]

Upload and download are largely irrelevant assuming there is sufficient bandwidth. For games this figure is 500k or less. Ping and quality of connection are important however.

But the fact that the Wii U gets lower than other devices on the same network is still troubling.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a good connection and bandwidth, usually ok matches (although almost all of them have small amounts of lag near and there that you can only see if your playing the game), but I just got into a team match where I could do pretty much nothing. The match took a minute to start after the "Ready" for everyone, somebody managed to leave before it started but it wasn't indicated, and to top it off there was a 3-5 second delay on every move in a 2v1 where we just repeatedly SD'd or stood still jabbing my teammate. Never have had another experience like that since, but it amazes me how bad the online is.

 

[Greenpants]

Played more games tn. The "LOList" for the evening includes Australia, Mexico, British Colombia, and Alberta. Again, none of those within 2000 miles of me.

I tried to play with some people from on here but the system seems stupid. Is there no "invite" option? Do I have to compose a message every time or hope they see my room open?!

 

[Dark Phazon]

How do i get a better connection online?
im using Wii Land Adapter too still lag on For glory quiet bad.....im from UK London...


Get matched up with Americans online all the time...

Is there a Reigon specific setting?

I checked everywhere...WiiU system settings and Sm4sh Setttings.....


Would changing Reigon Specific in the WiiU system settings do anything?

 

[Greenpants]

The current choices are

A) friend and play with people near you in custom rooms
B) hope Nintendo adds regional matchmaking

 

[Greenpants]

Ok, I know I'm running the full blown complain train here but...I just played a for fun free for all. Ohio, New Jersey, Alberta Canada, and Mexico. All in one match.

Seriously, look that up on a map.

 

[PogueSquadron]

I have a LAN adapter and I'm not sure I've ever had a match that was as good as local. It's always "night and day" different. Still playable, but definitely annoying.

 

[Storm Eagle]

I'm from Germany, and I regularly play with people from the US, Mexico or Canada. It works fine most of the time! Yet once time I got a player from "neighbour" Poland, and the match in slo mo! Region has next to nothing to do with lag from my point of view.

 

[Greenpants]

I'm from Germany, and I regularly play with people from the US, Mexico or Canada. It works fine most of the time! Yet once time I got a player from "neighbour" Poland, and the match in slo mo! Region has next to nothing to do with lag from my point of view.

You are sorely mistaken then. Assuming equal internet increasing distances will always equate to increasing "lag". It's science.

The quality of Internet connection on peer to peer play is largely uncontrollable. The remaining controllable variable is distance between players. Bad connections can exist between close players but they will always get worse as distance increases, all other things being equal.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Just gonna throw this out there:
I'm a brit player, playing on a wireless connection in a house with 7 people all using the internet at the same time.

I very rarely have any of this lag that everyone's whinging about. I've suffered input lag twice and while it was moderately soul destroying, it happens so rarely to me that it doesn't even matter.

 

[Storm Eagle]

You are sorely mistaken then. Assuming equal internet increasing distances will always equate to increasing "lag". It's science.

The quality of Internet connection on peer to peer play is largely uncontrollable. The remaining controllable variable is distance between players. Bad connections can exist between close players but they will always get worse as distance increases, all other things being equal.

So I am sorely mistaken about my lagless games across the ocean? Please stop talking nonsense.

 

[Greenpants]

So I am sorely mistaken about my lagless games across the ocean? Please stop talking nonsense.

God forbid anyone on the internet consider that they are incorrect. Let's immediately get butt hurt and tell the other person they are the one who is wrong and provide no genuine response.

 

[Conda]

we will all prob end up buying adapters but it is still awful that we even have to. the wii u was made to play games online using a wireless connection. the fact it seemingly cannot do this (i play monster hunter 3 ultimate with no issues) but can't play smash 4 online. its really frustrating bc i don't really want to play offline alone against cpu's or do classic mode etc. i want to play against other people and right now can't.

Just because the Wii U has wifi for online gaming doesn't mean any fighting game on it should work fine over wifi. They can't change physics. Ethernet is needed.

 

[8-Bit Brawler]

this game almost comes to a stand still at times. it would somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 speed when i play usually.

but what is confuseing is that i play MK8, Cod Black ops 2 online with zero lag, and have played tonnes of PS3 games online, and this is the ONLY title to have an issue like this?

thought it was mainly EA that screwed up game launches / online modes at launch.

i was so looking forward to this as i dont have any local friends that are into gaming really.

 

[iMoLaTe]

this game almost comes to a stand still at times. it would somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 speed when i play usually.

but what is confuseing is that i play MK8, Cod Black ops 2 online with zero lag, and have played tonnes of PS3 games online, and this is the ONLY title to have an issue like this?

thought it was mainly EA that screwed up game launches / online modes at launch.

i was so looking forward to this as i dont have any local friends that are into gaming really.

50% of the reason I bought a wii was to play ssb4 online, the other 50% was mk8. MK8 was well worth 50% of the purchase, SSB4 makes me feel like i've thrown my money away =\

 

[8-Bit Brawler]

50% of the reason I bought a wii was to play ssb4 online, the other 50% was mk8. MK8 was well worth 50% of the purchase, SSB4 makes me feel like i've thrown my money away =\

MK8 is awesome. great game, great online for the most part. i had no reason to suspect this would be any different.

im also an Aussie. maybe if they set up regional zoning we will end up playing. but it sounds like distance is only part of the issue.

 

[iMoLaTe]

MK8 is awesome. great game, great online for the most part. i had no reason to suspect this would be any different.

im also an Aussie. maybe if they set up regional zoning we will end up playing. but it sounds like distance is only part of the issue.

yeh its a regional issue, they need to implement regional restrictions. Whats your ID man, i'll add ya and maybe we can play some time.

 

[iMoLaTe]

any updates guys?

 

[Greenpants]

any updates guys?

I've resorted to playing on smashladders.com. Endless friendlies can be fun, everything else is too "tournamenty" for casual play IMO (picking character on the website, striking stages back & forth, etc).

Other than that I back out of any game if I have the slightest doubt the person is from the US and have stopped playing For Glory at off hours because it's hell finding games that aren't Europe, Asia, or South America off of peak play times.

 

[iMoLaTe]

I've resorted to playing on smashladders.com. Endless friendlies can be fun, everything else is too "tournamenty" for casual play IMO (picking character on the website, striking stages back & forth, etc).

Other than that I back out of any game if I have the slightest doubt the person is from the US and have stopped playing For Glory at off hours because it's hell finding games that aren't Europe, Asia, or South America off of peak play times.

I'm australian so unfortunately playing online for me is basically impossible.. I even have a 100mbps connection D:

 

[SilentBob]

It isn't as simple as sucking it up for a game or two. I have seen maybe one or two playable games in over 70 online games. I have had as many complete disconnects as I have had good matches. My decent games still have about 1/4 of a second of input lag. 15 frames of being unable to respond is extremely bad. Look at some frame data. If a move had 15 frames of recovery that would be considered terrible. Yet, I am unable to get inputs to respond until about that time. My average game is probably closer to about 1/3 of a second input lag. And my bad games literally run in slow motion (about 50% speed) with the occasional 5-6 second freeze.

There are issues even beyond basic attacking and defending. The movement suffers heavily with that kind of input lag as well. The actual movement feels like you are trying to move through molasses. You can't accurately aim any aerials and you end up overshooting most grabs. You can't move in and out to try to bait your opponent. You basically can't play at any level higher than shield, block, smash, move to the other side of the map, repeat.

My assumption is that Nintendo used TCP instead of UDP. TCP makes sure every bit of data gets to it's destination by sending acknowledgements back. Basically this means both sides have to communicate twice before any input is received. On UDP all data is sent as best effort. Thus, the occasional bit of data may be lost but it works fast. Most games use UDP for their online because it is much faster. That is why in some games, the games run in slow motion and in others they run the same speed but the characters that are lagging skip. They should have used UDP and I believe they did in Mario Kart 8 (I have, on only two occasions, witnessed a character skip in Mario Kart 8). I'd rather the game work that be bogged down by it's own netcode.

EDIT: If my theory is correct and Smash uses TCP, then the LAN adapter should help at least a bit. Wireless signals drop the occasional bits of data. If they have to transmit again and send new acknowledgements, then that would delay the game even further. With a LAN connection it is much less likely that data is going to be lost. Less lost data, fewer retransmits, fewer acknowledgements, fewer delays. At least that is the theory.

While you think you're knowing that you're talking about, you clearly don't. Netcode for fighting games has to work in a specific way otherwise it just wouldn't be viable. Every single fighting game has this problem. The moment you fight against someone far away, someone who has a bad connection, or if you have a bad connection, you're going to lag no matter what. Fighting games require a two way connection to run smoothly otherwise both players are going to see things that the other player isn't seeing or the game will run like GGPO which has rollbacks if lag occurs which is annoying as hell. If you're wondering what rollbacks are then imagine landing a combo on someone, during that combo the other player lagged, or you did, and then all of a sudden both of you are teleported back to your original positions before you did the combo. I can't even count the number of times this happened to me in Street Fighter Third Strike where I'd combo someone, win the match, hear the round ending sound effect then the game rolling back two seconds which throws me off guard and I end up losing.

Your connection isn't only dependent on what speeds you get from your ISP. The possible problems could be a faulty modem, built-in firewall on your router, a proxy setup on your router, DNS reroutes, the distance between your Wii U and your router, objects that can obstruct the signal in between or even a faulty router, how many connections there currently are on your router, if anyone else is using your internet, how old your router is because unfortunately most of them degrade over time, faulty wireless adapter inside your Wii U or even problems with your ISP itself despite them offering you great speeds. A friend of mine has a better connection than I have and just like you most of his matches have horrible lag. Though he is using a different ISP and they're known for throttling connections.

Mario Kart 8 works fine because lag really doesn't matter in that game. If you've played it a lot, I'm sure you've noticed many times how a red shell would be stuck on someone for a second or two before actually hitting them or how sometimes you know you finished second or third but the score shows you ended fourth. If you hit someone with a star, it doesn't matter if it happens now for you or a second later for the one who got hit because in the end he got hit before the race ended. The game doesn't need to be precise because your main focus while playing is to follow the track and stay on it while a fighting game is all about you and the other player.

 

[Quen]

While you think you're knowing that you're talking about, you clearly don't. Netcode for fighting games has to work in a specific way....

Thanks for this post. Saves me the time to write it myself. Just because you know the difference between TCP and UDP doesn't mean you know anything about game network architecture. That's way more complex. The Smash netcode looks really good imho.

I'm located in germany and i have good lagless matches with people from america. But also laggy ones.
I think most issues are hardware related. As already mentioned the Wii u wireless adapter is really crappy and i would bet most people use it (maybe not people from the forum but the average for the glory player).
If the connection is too unstable even the latency compensation code can't keep up a smooth game.

 

[Greenpants]

I'm located in germany and i have good lagless matches with people from america. /quote]

Why do people keep saying that? That is scientifically impossible. The time it takes for the signal to travel will add inevitable delay. Period. Whether or not you notice the delay is a separate issue.

Regardless...I wish they'd just add a character select screen ping measurement or connection grade like some of your friends list people have (still don't understand that entirely either though). It's annoying having to gamble on an occasionally horrid connection.

 

[iMoLaTe]

I have a almost new router, a wii u lan adapter and a 100mbps connection, best I ever get is like 1/2 a second delay, which to me isn't even worth playing. But at nights its laggy as ****

 

[Luviant X]

I started playing with a wireless connection and the game was nearly unplayable online. Switched to a wired connection, now I rarely encounter any lag unless my opponent has a horrid connection. It's silly that the Wii U was made to focus on wireless, but Sakurai/Nintendo did urge us to go wired for this game, so I say it's your best bet to making online playable like it did for me.

 

[MyNameIsEd]

Yeah, delay is such a big problem for online. They need to implement region and worldwide options like mario kart. I hate getting matchups with 2-3 seconds delay.

 

[Greenpants]

For what it's worth putting the wii on a static IP and on my routers "dmz" seems to have helped. Not sure if there are any security issues with that but...yea. Still only one side of the puzzle but making sure you're as good as possible never hurts.

 

[iMoLaTe]

For what it's worth putting the wii on a static IP and on my routers "dmz" seems to have helped. Not sure if there are any security issues with that but...yea. Still only one side of the puzzle but making sure you're as good as possible never hurts.

I've read about this, I have nfi how to do that