Olimar's Approaches: A List

[DGMavn]

There was a list in the Marth boards for Melee enumerating Marth's many (broken) approaches, which I found very helpful. The purpose of this thread is to replicate that one.

If you have anything to add, post and I'll put it up. I'll also be adding pros/cons as people come up with them.

1. SH Fair - A bread-and-butter approach. Decent priority and allows for spacing after the attack if you end up smacking a shield by DIing backwards after c-sticking forward. Can be done with forward momentum or from a single spot.

2. Hyphen-usmash - Frighteningly quick and launches an opponent for juggling. Can be done several times in succession during early percentages; later will set up multiple uairs.

3. RAR Bair - Haven't tried this one out much - I'm not the greatest at RARing yet. If anyone has used this to any sort of effectiveness, please add your thoughts.

4. Dash attack - Gets your hitboxes from here to there in a pretty good hurry. Punishable, especially via shield grabbing. I've seen it used on falling opponents to a good degree of success, since there's one frame between an airdodge and the soonest possible shield where any character is vulnerable.

5. Dash-spotdodge-dsmash - for when your opponent figures out the dash attack approach and tries to punish you for it. A little mindgamey but the dsmash has a small amount of lag coming out of the dodge.

6. SH Purple Pikmin Throw (SHPPT?) - when engaged in a campfest vs. a Toon Link or Lucas (or any other camper), I always find that finding a purple pikmin on deck is a signal to change gears from keepaway to rushdown. Given the short range of a thrown purple pikmin, you can either move forward to move into throwing range for the purple pikmin or whistle to the next color. I find that SHPPTing forces the opponent to respond to a different kind of projectile and is followed up nicely by a standard approach.

7. Dash grab - Use often enough to suggest to your opponent that shielding is not always the best idea. A healthy game of rock-paper-scissors never hurt anyone.

8. Dashing shield grab (credit: Fino) - Ranged approach to projectile spammers. (Like that one scrubby Pit who you play with all the time. You know, that guy in your circle of friends. Everyone knows that guy. That guy exists everywhere. He just spams B. Spammity spam. Like, always.)

NOTE: I do not include regular Pikmin throws as an approach. I consider his side B more of a zoning technique - many opponents will gladly trade two Pikmin ticks for a free invitation to fair directly into his face.

Again, additions/corrections/thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

[scalpel]

Hey mate, nice layout of all of Olimar's approaches. I think you've covered them all very neat and concisely. Maybe we could integrate this into TrueRedemption's compilation thread?

 

[DGMavn]

I think it's a bit premature to throw this into the compenidum just yet - it's very raw.

Also, I'd prefer the discussion of the approaches specifically to take place in this thread, simply because approaching is a fairly important fundamental, and the discussion of which will get diluted in a thread with such a vast amount of content like the Advanced Olimar discussion thread. But linking to this or quoting the list of approaches into it would be fine by me.

 

[zelazon]

I know for certain if you try to Dash grab Pit's side B, your only going to get yourself caught in his attack. Go for a standard grab when they attempt that slow move.

 

[hardcore]

nicely written, and very helpful; opens up some doors

 

[keeper]

I find a good defensive approach to be SH'd fairs or bairs from a single spot so you move yourself during the jump forward then back before the attack finishes so you end where you started, helps against shield grabs.

 

[alt-F4]

I don't know if this is a valid approach for high end players, but against my friends i jump past them baiting an attack and air dodge past them doing a b air from the other side then pikmin throw and run behind it. Like I said im not sure if this is a good strategy but its worked for me as a mix up

 

[Fino]

Don't forget the dashing shield grab! One of my personal favorite when fighting projectile spammers

~Fino

 

[DGMavn]

I don't know if this is a valid approach for high end players, but against my friends i jump past them baiting an attack and air dodge past them doing a b air from the other side then pikmin throw and run behind it. Like I said im not sure if this is a good strategy but its worked for me as a mix up

Against any decent player, you'll get punished for this. Jumping towards someone without intent to attack immediately is inadvisable.

Fino - will add.

 

[Fredd]

Yes, I do need to ask this.

What does the term Hyphen mean?​

 

[slayeriku]

Yes, I do need to ask this.

What does the term Hyphen mean?​

hyphen-usmash is dashing then usmashing

 

[MightyRoar]

i sometimes use a SH Nair for approaching. it's a good surprise if you spam SH Fair or RAR Bair approach, or if you're fearless (or stupid) and have no pikmin. Nair has a decent amount of priority from my experiences, and i have yet to be punished for using it as an approach. Plus, if you connect with it, you can follow up with hyphen u-smashes or Uairs at low percents.

 

[Ultimatum479]

I disagree. Oli's forward-B _is_ useful for approaching. It's a lot easier to approach an opponent who's dealing with latched Pikmin headbutting him in the face. It limits the moveset with which your approach can be punished, as they will most likely use moves which will simultaneously attack you and knock the Pikmin off of them. For example, sticking a Pikmin onto Samus while her blast is fully charged stops that from being a viable method of punishing your approach: the Pikmin will take the entire blast for you.

 

[TrueRedemption]

*Regarding Latch Approach*
A relatively closely spaced quick white latch followed up by you running/dash attacking is usually creates a conflict of interest the first time or two you use it. However its only a viable option when your opponent is attempting to establish a defensive position, not looking to attack you or standing still simply waiting. For instance you miss that last UpB of your combo, your both falling to the ground you a tad ahead of your opponent, they'll be a tad flustered after the combo you just had and not necessarily attempting to immediately attack you but their instinct usually suggests going for something like a shield grab or other defensive option, not rushing headlong back into what just gave them 50 damage and outranges them, not to mention your better set up you landed first. doing it in this situation is a perfect medium range approach that can keep pressure on your opponent despite it being an easy "reset" moment in the match where spacing is wiped clean. Honestly its not as useful with any color but white, perhaps not worth the potentially punished dash attack unless your really behind and must keep the pressure on to attempt to make up a stock using whatever momentum you've got.
In general I would suggest latch be used more in approach than in defense (other than purple) but use it more as a map control option than counting on your opponent swinging wildly at your pikmin while you get in his face. One point i'd definitely like to emphasize ultimatum made though is the use of pikmin to absorb projectiles, learn what projectiles are low enough that returning pikmin will take the hit, its a very nice option against projectiles spammers to mix up the rolling/sdodging/jumping.

@ Rest of thread: I've been reading this a little here and there, its a good idea to get things organized, discussed, etc keep up the good work. In my playing I've found:
1 FAir: Yup, pretty solid, but be very aware of diminishing returns, some opponents are easiest to KO with FAir in which case you don't want it to be unusably weak from connected approaches.
2 H-Smash: Wouldn't call it an approach so much as a way to maintain momentum, much like the latch example i gave above. Sure its quick but any opponent with half a brain isn't going to just let you run in on them from being spaced, the horizontal range is one of the smallest Oli has, this should be used really only when they are already above you some, and not repeatedly if you can help it, so many characters on so many stages die earliest to this move, definitely use it initially its a great move for opponents close above you, but go for a more controlling/pressuring UAir or some other option to follow it up, when you catch your opponent coming down or caught on a platform at 80% and you have a strong USmash, you'll be glad you did.
3 RAR BAir: Hit box isn't as nice as FAir, but if aerial approaches are working for you, and you need to let FAir recharge a bit, at least as far as spacing games are concerned I'd say this is your next best option. See what Keeper said, and do it.
4 DashAtk: I agree i've had some success on landing opponents, but again this is more of a momentum continuation than planed approach. Shield grabbing is only stronger, and this move is begging for it. Gotta look for moves that can't be punished easily when actually approaching.
5 Dash-SDodge: can work, just for clarification you don't SDodge on your opponent, but your hoping for right at the edge of his range, timing can be tricky, neutral option for approach, if you've got a run in attack heavy game going back and forth this is the first adjustment you make to beat that play style, but isn't hard to be adjusted to itself either.
6 SSPPT: Personally use purples for defensive stuff, I may approach slightly to throw the shorter range guy in there, but charging in after doesn't seem the best option. That being said i can't say i've tried it a lot to know for sure. However it seems to me like if you hit with the pikmin, you may be able to follow up with a tech chase if the timings right, but unlikely, and if you don't hit with the pikmin none of the normal opponent options for avoiding a thrown pikmin are really that punishable to be caught by your approach unprepared. If your Ike opponent is FSmashing every pikmin you throw sure, but a sheild/dodge/roll/jump all seem capable of dealing with your approach, some more than others sure, but i dunno, like i said haven't tried it really.
7 DashGrab: Another move i tend to avoid. Call me old fashioned, but in SSBM i learned why dash grabs were bad, when there was always the option of JC grab. I agree it could work, but the grab range is considerably less godly from dashing. How often do you get grabbed by a relatively average speed character running in grabbing? A mix up here or there I can see, but I prefer the turnaround grab or just standing grab defensively, don't look to grab much initiating approach/attack.
8 Dashing Shield Grab: A move i haven't added in to my repertoire yet, though i feel its long overdue. I expect I'll like this option a lot and will change my opinion on grabs when offensively initiating. It requires interesting adjustments to overcome and fits in well as an option so long as its not done too often, but same goes for most all approaches.


Closing thoughts, First Olimar's got range, unless you have momentum use your advantage, learn exactly how far your FSmash and other moves go so that you can aim to stay one pixel further away than that able to pressure them yet still playing defensively so they must enter your range while you have all your moves available. (slightly exaggerated, but take my point) Mixing up playstyles from hyper defensive to hyper offensive to pressure camping to hit and run only keeps your opponent off balance, you the one who knows what your doing and when its gonna change. Second as this gets more refined/worked out I'm definitely expecting to get it in the compendium, but want discussion to continue on it, hear from and look at as many options as possible right now (plus i'm busy of late, shouldn't even have written this long a post). Third you may wanna mention dtilt for its ability to move forward through some weird situations. Getting together info like what DTilt moves through/under and what projectiles returning pikmin block would be an awesome resource if someones got some time/interest.


-True

 

[Ultimatum479]

TLDR.



I kid. Anyway. I'd say Yellow Pikmin are the best for my usual approach patterns, actually, due to the way they move in an arc. It depends on the height of the opponent, though, and your personal method of approach. Whatever the case, an incoming Pikmin while you charge is almost always beneficial. Either they'll do something about it, in which case you know which moves they're likely to do (except MetaKnight, who kills Pikmin with every fricking move he has), or they won't, in which case you grab 'em and beat 'em up while the Pikmin keeps zapping.

 

[nevershootme]

RAR-ing doesn't work well with olimar imo cuz of his slight delay in performing the move as oppose to the f-air which is a bit faster for the move to come out