Olimar v Luigi (matchup thread export)

[DanGR]

I hate to detract from the Luigi v Jiggs discussion, but we've decided to cover Luigi in the Olimar forums this week.

Here's the original thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172222

We would deeply appreciate anything you'd like to contribute to the thread. Thanks in advance.

[At this point, the general concensus is that Olimar has a disadvantage.]

~DanGR

 

[CR4SH]

Lol, I'm the first post on one of your favorite threads.

As for olimar, I just abuse him with tornado. He doesn't seem to have an answer for it.

Tornado in to pop him in the air. Follow the airdodge and inflict pain. Roll away. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[hippiedude92]

No Olimar can't be at advantage, trust me on that. its either a accurate 50-50, or a 60:40 in oli's advantage. i have some very good exprenice against olimar. one thing is called " dont get grabbed lol" ill pst my 2cents later

why's everyone on luigi for matchup discussion? hes special now? lol

 

[Yonder]

Luigi's tornado can shut down alot of Olimar's pikmin attack, but at the same time, Olimar has alot of range that he can use on Luigi, and it can be quite deadly.

I say it's even, maybe a small advantage for Luigi. Very small.

 

[hippiedude92]

I just played some olimar matchs even though I won majority of em' i still think its a decent 50-50.

Here's what sparked had said in another thread on Olimar.

Oye, Olimar, isn't as hard as many claim...

Approaching:
Olimar can't spam Pikmin throw at you all day. Fireballs easily stop his FSmash, DSmash and Side B (!) so he will need to approach you, given none of his Pikmin are Red. <.< You can the other hand can rip through his approaches with a Tornado or an aerial approach. Your NAir eats him alive.

On the ground:
Don't try to stay here. Olimar outranges you so easily it's nopt even funny. If you're going to be on the ground, get in his face QUICK and be offensive about it. Launch him into the air with a UTilt/USmash. Be careful of his grab, as it's pretty long ranged (Or short...if the pikmin is purple) and don't stay grounded too long.

In the air:
NAir > Everything, except UAir (What's with Luigi not being able to stay above anyone these days?...Sheesh) So Sex Kick away. use your usual aerial tactics. Just be wary of Purple Pikmin as they're the only ones that will out prioritize your moves.

Dealing with Pikmin Throw:
NAir. That is all.

Killing:
Olimar is light and once he's off the stage, an almost goner. Trick Olimar into using his second jump and 88% of the time he's in a position to be gimped. Aerials should be enough to keep him away, and you might even kill some of his Pikmin in the process. Grab the ledge when he wastes his second jump. Again, be wary of Purple Pikmin as they can still grab the ledge if you're hanging onto it with no invincibility...




As for my 2 cents, tornado > pikimin throw, Nair > Upsmash. I know most of you Oli's get your kills from upsmash but your going to have to change it abit. Instead of getting ***** by a Nair, just space yourself and go for a grab/Fsmash for a kill.

Oli's ground game is where you want luigi at. At the air, you 'll probably get ***** very hard and combo'd as well. Ground game, grabs, tilts is what Oli needs for this matchup.

As for killing oli, he dies pretty early around 30-40%s from a shoryuken and gets in kill'd range around 60-70%s.

 

[DanGR]

Approaching:
Olimar can't spam Pikmin throw at you all day. Fireballs easily stop his FSmash, DSmash and Side B (!) so he will need to approach you, given none of his Pikmin are Red. <.< You can the other hand can rip through his approaches with a Tornado or an aerial approach. Your NAir eats him alive.

woa, wait a sec... fireballs>pikmin throw? That's not right. Pikmin throw easily outcamps the fireballs. The pikmin come out just too fast for the fireballs to handle them. Was he throwing them from the ground? Even if, Olimar should still win the camp war.

 

[Excellence]

Anyone who thinks Luigi is at an advantage needs to play my Olimar. The match-up stands at 60-40 in favor of Olimar. Luigi simply cannot get close to Olimar and unlike Mario, fireball approaches are also NOT an option. Anything Luigi can do, save for jump and/or aerials, can be grabbed and comboed. Pikmin spam keeps Luigi pressured while Luigi's Bairs can be Whistled when needed.

Funny how everyone is all optomistic like until the play a serious Olimar.

 

[Excellence]

I just played some olimar matchs even though I won majority of em' i still think its a decent 50-50.

Here's what sparked had said in another thread on Olimar.

Oye, Olimar, isn't as hard as many claim...

Approaching:
Olimar can't spam Pikmin throw at you all day. Fireballs easily stop his FSmash, DSmash and Side B (!) so he will need to approach you, given none of his Pikmin are Red. <.< You can the other hand can rip through his approaches with a Tornado or an aerial approach. Your NAir eats him alive.

On the ground:
Don't try to stay here. Olimar outranges you so easily it's nopt even funny. If you're going to be on the ground, get in his face QUICK and be offensive about it. Launch him into the air with a UTilt/USmash. Be careful of his grab, as it's pretty long ranged (Or short...if the pikmin is purple) and don't stay grounded too long.

In the air:
NAir > Everything, except UAir (What's with Luigi not being able to stay above anyone these days?...Sheesh) So Sex Kick away. use your usual aerial tactics. Just be wary of Purple Pikmin as they're the only ones that will out prioritize your moves.

Dealing with Pikmin Throw:
NAir. That is all.

Killing:
Olimar is light and once he's off the stage, an almost goner. Trick Olimar into using his second jump and 88% of the time he's in a position to be gimped. Aerials should be enough to keep him away, and you might even kill some of his Pikmin in the process. Grab the ledge when he wastes his second jump. Again, be wary of Purple Pikmin as they can still grab the ledge if you're hanging onto it with no invincibility...




As for my 2 cents, tornado > pikimin throw, Nair > Upsmash. I know most of you Oli's get your kills from upsmash but your going to have to change it abit. Instead of getting ***** by a Nair, just space yourself and go for a grab/Fsmash for a kill.

Oli's ground game is where you want luigi at. At the air, you 'll probably get ***** very hard and combo'd as well. Ground game, grabs, tilts is what Oli needs for this matchup.

As for killing oli, he dies pretty early around 30-40%s from a shoryuken and gets in kill'd range around 60-70%s.

This post is an epic failure and should be considered wrong on all accounts.

 

[hippiedude92]

Lolwut? That was someone's else's post. Tornado approachs is where it is my good man. It outpriortizes pikimin throw. And yes luigi can get close. Probably haven't played a serious luigi no?

 

[Pompi]

Probably haven't played a serious luigi no?

total ownage indeed ppl tend to judge luigi players by those who play him for fun its ok to play him for fun but dont assume we are all like that luigi kicks olimars **s his tornado will shut down pikmin approaches (except purple which sould be powershielded) and nair will completely **** him , on another note if the luigi knows how to spike olimar is VERY gimpable off the stage i think wiigi is at advantage

 

[DanGR]

I think the only reason Luigi might have the slight advantage would be his very fast jab. When spaced and used directly after one of Luigi's lagless aerials, it interrupts shieldgrabbing. This is avoidable though, through pivotgrabs, which can ruin Luigi's approaching. (he does have to approach. >_>)

Really, his only reliable option is to use the tornado to approach. Everything else can be grabbed pretty easily. When Olimar learns to get past that, (which is easier said than done) he's got the matchup in the bad.

The nado- can be grabbed/pivotgrabbed just like everything else, it clanks with dtilt, and if the Luigi ends the nado near Olimar, he can just shieldgrab it. I guess I can assume you guys don't do this though, amirite?

I'm just throwing out some things I've noticed playing the matchup.

Also, I made this thread to discuss the matchup and how Olimar should deal with Luigi's tactics. (I'm writing a guide yah know) The difficulty rating is quite irrelevant.

 

[hippiedude92]

Is it really that hard to approach olimar? I just approach him carefully by if hes using pikimin throws, then i just use a aerial to make them hop off while getting closer to olimar's range. But yes Nair/Tornado are viable for luigi in this matchup.

What specfically do you need for the guide? Cause im just a human and shiz >.>

 

[Excellence]

Lolwut? That was someone's else's post. Tornado approachs is where it is my good man. It outpriortizes pikimin throw. And yes luigi can get close. Probably haven't played a serious luigi no?

Who said Olimar would do any kind of approaching? Yeah, you sure seem informed thinking I'm going to approach you when I can obviously pluck and chuck. No, Luigi CANNOT get close. If you try an aerial, I'd like you to meet my friend pivot grab.

total ownage indeed ppl tend to judge luigi players by those who play him for fun its ok to play him for fun but dont assume we are all like that luigi kicks olimars **s his tornado will shut down pikmin approaches (except purple which sould be powershielded) and nair will completely **** him , on another note if the luigi knows how to spike olimar is VERY gimpable off the stage i think wiigi is at advantage

Olimar DOES NOT APPROACH. What the hell are you people smoking? Why would Olimar approach Luigi AT ALL? All you can do is Tornado, which I WILL grab. Nair ***** Olimar? Right, I guess I'm going to stand there to let you rise into me or fall the hitbox into me. You know nothing of Olimar, everyone says he gimpable but I've ledgehopped, purple stage spiked, and Up B speared more people than I can count. Olimar's recovery is ****ing golden. If you want to name a weakness name the random de-sync he gets from certain attacks and then we'll talk.

Like I said though, put up or shut up.

 

[CR4SH]

OK, so here's the deal guys.

Olimar has no answer for tornado. None. Zilch.

If you're olimar saying olimar has an advantage, the luigis you fought aren't nearly shameless enough. Any time Luigi isn't in a position to attack, tornado. Win.

That is all.

Edit: just a bit more

Olimar's recovery is ****ing golden.

LOL.

 

[Excellence]

OK, so here's the deal guys.

Olimar has no answer for tornado. None. Zilch.

If you're olimar saying olimar has an advantage, the luigis you fought aren't nearly shameless enough. Any time Luigi isn't in a position to attack, tornado. Win.

That is all.

Edit: just a bit more



LOL.

How's this for an answer to tornado: Grab. Luigi dies, the naive Luigi boards all lose miserably in the next tournament they have with Olimar.

 

[Delta_BP26]

Excellence? More like Failure. Please leave.

 

[CR4SH]

How's this for an answer to tornado: Grab. Luigi dies, the naive Luigi boards all lose miserably in the next tournament they have with Olimar.

Good luck with that one hotshot.

 

[yungunr2]

wow oli's have a big ego, maybe some of our decent luigis should show them up, and yes i said decent because thats all the skill they need to win.

 

[hippiedude92]

Who said Olimar would do any kind of approaching? Yeah, you sure seem informed thinking I'm going to approach you when I can obviously pluck and chuck. No, Luigi CANNOT get close. If you try an aerial, I'd like you to meet my friend pivot grab.

Who says we need to do a aerial? A empty SH is good enough and retreating backforth. Also Luigi will be SH majority of the time just enough to avoid grabs.


Olimar DOES NOT APPROACH. What the hell are you people smoking? Why would Olimar approach Luigi AT ALL? All you can do is Tornado, which I WILL grab. Nair ***** Olimar? Right, I guess I'm going to stand there to let you rise into me or fall the hitbox into me. You know nothing of Olimar, everyone says he gimpable but I've ledgehopped, purple stage spiked, and Up B speared more people than I can count. Olimar's recovery is ****ing golden. If you want to name a weakness name the random de-sync he gets from certain attacks and then we'll talk.

Like I said though, put up or shut up.

There's no denying that Oli's has one of the worst recoveries in the game. Can't deny that. Also another weakness is that he has poor piss air game compared to Luigi. Luigi moves put olimar into the air where luigi wants him to be. Oli's options are limited when's on the air.

How's this for an answer to tornado: Grab. Luigi dies, the naive Luigi boards all lose miserably in the next tournament they have with Olimar.

Think that's easy to grab a luigi of a tornado? First off, you can grab luigi tornado in the first few frames iirc. A luigi won't be using a tornado straight up in olimar's face. Also it's too fast for it be grabbed because a good luigi won't let have the ending lag end up at oli's face.

Avoiding olimar's grab isn't that hard really if you know how much spacing it is tbh.

 

[Excellence]

Excellence? More like Failure. Please leave.

So you're basically taking the easy way out and asking someone you cannot disprove to leave. Great job.

Good luck with that one hotshot.

Luck doesn't exist, it's all probability. This thread is about facts, not fiction.

wow oli's have a big ego, maybe some of our decent luigis should show them up, and yes i said decent because thats all the skill they need to win.

Oh please, do show me up. I'd love to see you try.

There's no denying that Oli's has one of the worst recoveries in the game. Can't deny that. Also another weakness is that he has poor piss air game compared to Luigi. Luigi moves put olimar into the air where luigi wants him to be. Oli's options are limited when's on the air.

Think that's easy to grab a luigi of a tornado? First off, you can grab luigi tornado in the first few frames iirc. A luigi won't be using a tornado straight up in olimar's face. Also it's too fast for it be grabbed because a good luigi won't let have the ending lag end up at oli's face.

Avoiding olimar's grab isn't that hard really if you know how much spacing it is tbh.

Olimar's recovery is actually decent. You, who are not an Olimar player and are therefore unfamiliar with the high level of skill it takes to properly use, would have no understand of why it's decent and not nearly as bad as you think.

Olimar's aerial defenses are freaking golden. I was actually taking what you said into consideration until I read your half *** attempt to disprove Olimar's advantages. Olimar's air game is extraordinarily fast which means reguardless who has more priority, if I'm hitting you before you can swing, you're still going to lose. And heads up, Olimar aerial options are more expansive than his ground options - opinion, no - fact, yes.

Luigi's Tornado is very easy to grab. As long as you aren't in Olimar's face (which you won't be without Olimar being off the ground) you will get grabbed, it's just that simple. If you're Tornadoing from one side of the screen to the other where ending lag plays any sort of role at all, you're playing stupid and once again, you will be grabbed.

 

[LuigiKing]

Excellence, I HAVE played really good Olimars, and I realize it is not totally one sided, Luigi easily has the advantage on this one. I highly doubt you have played a competitive Luigi, since there simply aren't many, but seriously, you just don't have your facts straight.

What looks good on paper doesn't often transition perfectly into a fighting games actual mechanics. Luigi can slowly approach through Nairing away pikmin throws, and trust me, a tornado used directly before Luigi hits the ground can be in your face before you have time to grab. Every single thing Luigi does in the air out prioritizes Olimar, and Luigi's Nair goes right through Olimar's Usmash, Fsmash, and Dsmash. Olimar does have things to get around Luigi, but the problem is, Luigi has MORE things to get around Olimar, thats what we call an advantageous matchup for Luigi. No one here is saying you won't be able to hit a Luigi, we're just saying its an uphill fight.

Feel free to ask anything specific about the matchup, because trust me, I do know this one well.

Oh, and Olimar does have pitiful recovery. If you deny that, even the Olimar boards are going to make fun of you.

 

[Excellence]

Excellence, I HAVE played really good Olimars, and I realize it is not totally one sided, Luigi easily has the advantage on this one. I highly doubt you have played a competitive Luigi, since there simply aren't many, but seriously, you just don't have your facts straight.

What looks good on paper doesn't often transition perfectly into a fighting games actual mechanics. Luigi can slowly approach through Nairing away pikmin throws, and trust me, a tornado used directly before Luigi hits the ground can be in your face before you have time to grab. Every single thing Luigi does in the air out prioritizes Olimar, and Luigi's Nair goes right through Olimar's Usmash, Fsmash, and Dsmash. Olimar does have things to get around Luigi, but the problem is, Luigi has MORE things to get around Olimar, thats what we call an advantageous matchup for Luigi. No one here is saying you won't be able to hit a Luigi, we're just saying its an uphill fight.

Feel free to ask anything specific about the matchup, because trust me, I do know this one well.

Oh, and Olimar does have pitiful recovery. If you deny that, even the Olimar boards are going to make fun of you.

I'll accept your advantages against Olimar, but don't knock Olimar's recovery. No one on the Olimar boards can ever swing at my gimp to gimped record with Olimar.

To be honest with you, I just don't feel like arguing today.

 

[hippiedude92]

Well just tested it, and yes your correct of how easy it is to grab luigi's tornado but it won't be always 100% because of how close and he'll be SH-ing nados all day. Also sure, olimar can camp all day, but he's going to eventually approach because throwing pikimin at luigi and luigi killing them off counts towards move decay regeneration.

 

[CR4SH]

The real point is, most of the time, nobody is going to tornado out of just standing on the ground. It's behind a fireball, or out of a jump, or in the middle of your approach. Anyone who plays luigi knows how to get the tornado to hit. I've never been grabbed out of a tornado in an actual match (yes I play good people), because it's really easy to land. And, more importantly, it abuses the hell out of olimar. It goes straight through all of his attacks (not that you'd attack a tornado. I'd tornado your attack. See what I'm saying?), and it puts him at a huge disadvantage if you pop him into the air with it. Luigis aerials not only outprioritize olimars, they also outspeed them.

Plus you have so many options out of it. One I wouldn't do against an olimar is tornado back out and shoot a fireball. His grab range is too far.

Edit: Idea for a test. How fast is a grounded tornado compared to sonic? Compared to fortress? Or even missile. Hmm.

 

[Delta_BP26]

Olimar's recovery is not golden.

And LuigiKing covered everything I was going to say.

 

[CR4SH]

Actually, yes. This IS part of the reason they've limited the number of chaingrabs the IC's can use. Otherwise we'd all find ourselves spiked by Nana after a spacing error.

I grabbed this from the MK discussion. Just to put this whole thing to bed. Excellence is so hilariously full of **** that his comments don't deserve any attention.

You lose sir.

 

[Jaro21]

Everything i have seen shows that Nair plus Tornado ***** olimar. Oh and an answer to olimar's grab when used against a tornado.... the tornado can :GASP:.... RISE by tapping b as olimar grabs would raise luigi over olimar's grab.

 

[CR4SH]

Everything i have seen shows that Nair plus Tornado ***** olimar. Oh and an answer to olimar's grab when used against a tornado.... the tornado can :GASP:.... RISE by tapping b as olimar grabs would raise luigi over olimar's grab.

Thank you for emphasizing my point.