Meta Olimar Match Up Discussion!

MERPIS

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#1
What are some of olimar's suspect matchups? I personally despise the MK and the Roy matchups
 

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#2
I have yet to find any MU that I personally felt was bad. I know a few other Olimar's I've talked to have felt this way. However this reminded me to make a dedicated MU thread for Olimar. So keep a look out for that soon.
 

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#3
Hey everyone this thread will be used for general match up discussion for any characters you may want to talk about. This is also to help keep repost asking about different matchups down. Feel free to chat about any match up for Olimar or ask any questions here.

I'll start with a question. What is your least favorite match up to play against as Olimar? Mine would probably be the Belmonts. I don't find them a problematic match up. Just the least fun for me.
 

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#4
I have yet to find any MU that I personally felt was bad. I know a few other Olimar's I've talked to have felt this way. However this reminded me to make a dedicated MU thread for Olimar. So keep a look out for that soon.
Mark Little mac as horrendous please, holy hell I hate him
 

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#5
I don't think it's fair to call a MU bad because of that. Gotta break down the aspects of it. I'll be moving this thread into the main MU thread, but why do you think it's bad?
 

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#6
I don't think it's fair to call a MU bad because of that. Gotta break down the aspects of it. I'll be moving this thread into the main MU thread, but why do you think it's bad?
He's way way WAY too fast for us and unlike falcon his moves aren't slow as anything and throwing pikmin is almost useless to him as he can just run up to us and instantly put us in disadvantage, sure we have jab dtilt and airs to keep him off and we can gimp him into next month but any other time its way too painful.

Speaking of speedys, falcon, I think its +1 for us, we wall him out up the wazoo while racking up damage, he can't really combo us due to being so floaty and itty bitty, offstage is a given here and since our aerials are now actually great moves instead of smash 4 aerials we can outrange him as well in case he tries something risky while we're off doing our things, sure falcon can combo us half to death like he can literally every other character in smash ultimate and he can also kill us decently early, but killing us requires a lot of patience since we're not just small, making him really have to commit and go low in order to hit us with-say, back air, but we're also disjointed to some degree now which puts a pretty big stop to most of his attempts
 

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#7
Little mac definitely does't do that to us. Pick a larger stage if you're struggling to keep him out. You can put smashes and grabs out preemptively when he's approaching to make him respect them. Purple side-b is also a great option to stop him when he's approaching. Your aerials also function like swords so if you space your attacks right you won't even trade with him.
 

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#8
Little mac definitely does't do that to us. Pick a larger stage if you're struggling to keep him out. You can put smashes and grabs out preemptively when he's approaching to make him respect them. Purple side-b is also a great option to stop him when he's approaching. Your aerials also function like swords so if you space your attacks right you won't even trade with him.
What's my best bet for when he's actually in my face?
 

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#9
Mixing up shield, cross up aerials and up smash, in addition to your jab,dtilt, utilt. There isn't one solution for everything. Need to mix it up based on what he does. He doesn't have continuous safe shield pressure so if you're unsure if you can punish roll out of there or wait till his moves finish hitting you.
 

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#10
Do you have any opinion on mewtwo, mhrom, the marth family, belmonts, snake and the rat family?
 

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#11
Not for full write ups of MUs atm. I think they're all at least even atm. I haven't really encountered a MU where I felt Olimar struggled. Biggest thing is understanding how their moves work so you can work around them. They all require different strategies, but it's not bad once you get the hang of it.
 

IcyLight

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#12
What's my best bet for when he's actually in my face?
Just dtilt him if he gets close. It can combo based on percent:

dtilt > dtilt > usmash > usmash > aerial.

Little Mac can be hard to play against if they're aggressive. If you don't have enough time to get to your safe distance he can be a pain. But once you do, as someone else said just space fair, fsmash, purple sideb and pivot grabs.

My most troublesome matchup right now is probably Chrom or Cloud. Both of them do this thing where they swing their sword and it literally kills any pikmin near me. Chrom is fast enough so I can't get more pikmin out, and Clouds hitboxes extend for so long that he kills the pikmin AND hits me. I won't go as far to say as they win the matchup, as I usually still win most of my games, but they're some good contenders for the possible oli counters list, in my experience.
 

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#13
Parrying makes sword characters infinitely easier, also Pikmin are generated on frame 1 so it shouldn't be too hard to snag some when you do get small openings. Biggest thing is to preemptively have hitboxes out like smashes to make them respect or go around them. Gotta be keen on the spacing. Yellow aeraisl are also a nice way to challenge them in the air with extra range. Whistle is also key to getting back to the ground when above them.
 

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#14
I get the feeling that Olimar is going to have one of the best MU spreads in this entire game, I get smash 4 sheik vibes from him. Like he has no real losing MUs but he also just dumps all over the cast below him, he utterly destroys the heavies outside of ridley and maybe zard, most characters can't contest his stupid neutral and most projectile heavy characters he wins in wars against because most of them don't have the tools necessary to keep up with his damage racking and his surprisingly good up close game. Most rush down characters can't get through the walls of pikmin and when they do they have to fight against his sword aerials. His ONLY flaw is that he's on the lighter side, but with projectiles like the pikmin I have found that he actually does live up until 130-40%. His disadvantage is also kinda painful but with the buff to his up smash, and his much better aerials. Getting out of it should actually be pretty easy against most characters. Coupled with the buffs to whistle and his extremely small size, (the third smallest in the game only beaten out by pichu and squirtle), combos should also be a piece of cake for Olimar too. While he has both top 5 neutral and advantage states (pls don't kill me for this one)

So he has potentially the best damage racking capabilities in smash ultimate, a surprisingly scary up close game, very good kill power for a character like him, not only long range walling capabilities but also mid range walling capabilities too. A stupidly good recovery even with one pikmin on. Apparently as well his safety on shield is ridiculous as well, I've seen up smash lock people in place for another up smash or an aerial and that decimated shields with purple and red, actually going so far as to break them. Up smash only has about 10(?? I tried counting) frames of ending lag so good luck punishing that out of shield if he decides to space it. Then you have f/dsmash which are both somewhat safe if spaced well and are good for calling out people who get too greedy. I honestly think Olimar is busted as hell. I just love seeing a character like Olimar in the midst of top tier, surrounded by offensive monsters like chrom and pichu.
 
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IcyLight

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#15
I get the feeling that Olimar is going to have one of the best MU spreads in this entire game, I get smash 4 sheik vibes from him. Like he has no real losing MUs but he also just dumps all over the cast below him, he utterly destroys the heavies outside of ridley and maybe zard, most characters can't contest his stupid neutral and most projectile heavy characters he wins in wars against because most of them don't have the tools necessary to keep up with his damage racking and his surprisingly good up close game. Most rush down characters can't get through the walls of pikmin and when they do they have to fight against his sword aerials. His ONLY flaw is that he's on the lighter side, but with projectiles like the pikmin I have found that he actually does live up until 130-40%. His disadvantage is also kinda painful but with the buff to his up smash, and his much better aerials. Getting out of it should actually be pretty easy against most characters. Coupled with the buffs to whistle and his extremely small size, (the third smallest in the game only beaten out by pichu and squirtle), combos should also be a piece of cake for Olimar too. While he has both top 5 neutral and advantage states (pls don't kill me for this one)

So he has potentially the best damage racking capabilities in smash ultimate, a surprisingly scary up close game, very good kill power for a character like him, not only long range walling capabilities but also mid range walling capabilities too. A stupidly good recovery even with one pikmin on. Apparently as well his safety on shield is ridiculous as well, I've seen up smash lock people in place for another up smash or an aerial and that decimated shields with purple and red, actually going so far as to break them. Up smash only has about 10(?? I tried counting) frames of ending lag so good luck punishing that out of shield if he decides to space it. Then you have f/dsmash which are both somewhat safe if spaced well and are good for calling out people who get too greedy. I honestly think Olimar is busted as hell. I just love seeing a character like Olimar in the midst of top tier, surrounded by offensive monsters like chrom and pichu.
I'm not sure why you think he's that overpowered in all aspects. He is def top 10 but I don't find him to be unstoppable and perfect in all regards. He cannot wall people as you say, because his Pikmin health is so low that a single swing from half the cast will kill your pikmin, and anyone with a decent speed can approach during this point. He can pick his pikmin fast, but if you pick more than one in quick succession then they have a temporary desync and are unusable for a second or two. Almost any other character with multiple projectiles wins the camping matchup as well.

Heavies are also some of the more difficult matchups for oli because they throw out huge hitboxes that can destroy your pikmin lineup AND hit you if close enough. Yes, you can def camp and stay ahead, but it's not as easy as it used to be in other smash games.

And people who can parry well can punish oli players who spam usmash pretty hard, so there's that too.

All of the points you made are right, just way over exaggerated :p
 

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#16
I have to disagree with you IcyLight. He's quite strong in this game and can go toe-to-toe with numerous characters in projectile wars. Unlike most of the characters his projectiles are very lagless when used allowing him to consistently maneuver in and out with them. Pikmin health may be low, but if Pikmin are hit during the active hitboxes of a smash most moves will just clank instead of killing them, he walls very well because of this. Aerials are transcendent during their active hitboxes as well making them able to go through anything (think villager turnips in Smash 4). Proper Pikmin management means you'll likely have an option when out of Pikmin or needing to pluck, it comes with experience. Heavies aren't bad imo either, I think he has know bad MUs. Yeah they hit hard, but Olimar can throw out far more hits then they can, hit similarly as hard, and has strong combos on them. He also has the strongest uthrow in the game iirc so he can punish them for shielding too. As for parrying since Olimar's smashes are projectiles he suffers no slow down during them making parrying then not as good as other moves.
 

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#17
Any tips on Olimar VS ROB I fought a real good one today, felt like challenging him in the air was sort of impossible. Maybe I should've stuck to the ground more? What do you guys think of that one?
 

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#18
Also, are there any tips on fighting against the Belmonts? I just find them really annoying to deal with.
 

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#19
I also have trouble against the Belmonts, I just try to shield threw the projectiles and try to get close while avoiding the chain
 

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#20
You can challenge rob with aerials but it can be tough. If you get caught by one nair generally you wanna DI out to get away and reset neutral, parrying into a punish can help a ton, as can yellows for the extra range. The belmonts need you to be solid with your movement so you don't get overwhelmed. Use side-b and jumps to block/dodge projectiles and work your way forward, also try and bait you attacks like whip from the belmont then come in with something like a fair. Purples are good in both MUs as well for side-b pressure. Biggest thing is being good with your movement so you don't get caught up in a storm of projectiles. We're slow so we gotta be quick with this stuff. Platform stages can also help vs the belmonts to make it a bit easier to navigate the projectiles.
 

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#26
Use your Pikmin to block his projectiles. Also incorporate shielding and jumping as you approach to make him have to constantly change timings and angles of attack.
 

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#28
I'm relatively new at maining Olimar. I have been a link main in pretty much every game, but from what i've played so far the key to luigi is spacing. I've found that you can't try to get into a boxing match with luigi, his moves come out too quickly. Usually patience is how I've achieved the best results against him. Consistently throwing pikmin is a good way to make most luigi's (in my experience of course) impatient and throw out an unsafe option. The new transcendent priority of our aerials now is very nice against luigi as well.

I am struggling with the pikachu/pichu matchup. Any advice? I feel like i'm getting walled out by thunder jolts, but don't really have a fast enough move to punish as they weave in an out.
 

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#29
Are there any tips to fighting against cloud or ike? I find both of these matchups very frustrating to play.
I feel like whenever I play against Cloud, he spams his blade beam, forcing me to either use shield or pikmin to block it, while he just gains limit. I try to close in on him a lot, and feel like i just get punished for it.
Whenever I play against Ike he tends to use a lot of his aerials, the problem for me is I have trouble avoiding his nair, which eventually leads into Ike either comboing me or killing me really early.
 

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#30
Are there any tips to fighting against cloud or ike? I find both of these matchups very frustrating to play.
I feel like whenever I play against Cloud, he spams his blade beam, forcing me to either use shield or pikmin to block it, while he just gains limit. I try to close in on him a lot, and feel like i just get punished for it.
Whenever I play against Ike he tends to use a lot of his aerials, the problem for me is I have trouble avoiding his nair, which eventually leads into Ike either comboing me or killing me really early.
Check out this set from Genesis this past weekend - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGKuLvN8BO4

Dabuz struggled against MKLeo's Ike, but he did manage to take a game off of him. It's a rough matchup to be sure.
 
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#31
olimars worst match up for sure is ness. Ness's aerials all block pikman as well as pk fire and ness can edge guard olimar easy with lightning tail. I honestly low key think ness is a top tier that no top player is playing
 
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#32
I don’t think olimar does badly against ness. Fire pikmin go through pk fire, yellow pikmin can get rid of lightning tail, our aerials are more disjointed than ness’s aerials. So I’m going to have to disagree with your opinion of ness beating olimar. If there was a MU that could be classified as the worst for olimar, my opinion would probably be peach and daisy
 

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#33
A ton of MUs are suspect for olimar to lose, wolf, peach, ness, ike, even fox maybe. But the thing is, each of these have enough counterplay to make them even
 
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#34
You could be right, I could just suck honestly but I really think at best then the ness match up is even but i highly disagree that olimar has no bad match ups. Ness to me is super tricky. He can camp with us, by pk fires and hitting pikeman back. He also has that strange shield thing. Then when we are above him his upair is really hard to get out of and lasts forever. then when your off stage the lightning and all his ariels are really good against us and that dumb yoyo can be tricky on the mix up. Ness can also garb kill just like us and kill super early. The bat can hit pikman back at us even though this is not a crazy big deal but still matters. He is also just faster out of shield. Maybe you guys just haven't played a crazy good ness yet idk but my buddy mains him and its really tricky. Now this could be just a online thing I am really not sure. I don't think its like pika vs link from 64 but I do think overall ness has the advantage especially on smaller maps. The thing is there are just so many bad ness players, way more then other characters and it seems like its a much better match up then it really is.
 

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#35
You could be right, I could just suck honestly but I really think at best then the ness match up is even but i highly disagree that olimar has no bad match ups. Ness to me is super tricky. He can camp with us, by pk fires and hitting pikeman back. He also has that strange shield thing. Then when we are above him his upair is really hard to get out of and lasts forever. then when your off stage the lightning and all his ariels are really good against us and that dumb yoyo can be tricky on the mix up. Ness can also garb kill just like us and kill super early. The bat can hit pikman back at us even though this is not a crazy big deal but still matters. He is also just faster out of shield. Maybe you guys just haven't played a crazy good ness yet idk but my buddy mains him and its really tricky. Now this could be just a online thing I am really not sure. I don't think its like pika vs link from 64 but I do think overall ness has the advantage especially on smaller maps. The thing is there are just so many bad ness players, way more then other characters and it seems like its a much better match up then it really is.
Ness cant deal with us if we’re super campy, our disjoints are bigger, offstsge is free, we juggle him to the moon, purples do purple things, and since he has to actually commit to getting pikmin off we can just punish that
 

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#36
Something to keep in mind when looking at matchups in general is to not project your player flaws onto the character. Just because YOU can't do it doesn't mean Olimar can't do it. Anyways, nice discussion everyone, keep it up.
 

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#37
You know what olimar cant do in this game?
Charge his smash attacks
 

MERPIS

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#39
Does anybody have any tips on how to get down from juggling situations? I can manage well with ones like pichu or mario but lucina gives me hell because up air completely decimates dair.
 

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#40
Use whistle armor or bait out an up air and dodge with up-b then fastfall dair/nair. You can also work your way to the ledge while in the air to grab it.
 
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