Old and New Lucario together

[awesome13579]

In Brawl, Lucario was known for being super powerful as his percent racked up. His range also increased for all of his attacks. In Project M, this was scrapped for the Magic Series with rewarded Super Meter, taking a cancel system to a whole new level in Smash. However, his range in 2.5 lacks, and some people feel that having so many cancels does not give him the proper essence of a Smash bros character.

What do you guys think if Lucario had that great range but had his normal power, only being able to have attacks cancel into special cancels, a jump canceled down B, all while maintaining the Super Meter concept? This way, he would play similar to a swordsman, but with his own unique style that pertains to that essence of Melee Project M aims for.

 

[Spiffykins]

He already sort of plays like he has a sword, I've thought it to myself a few times. Jump cancelling specials is overplayed as hell. His down b is fine as is apart from being a bit too slow. It sets up a very tough situation for the opponent at mid-high percents. If they're stuck in a forward air juggle, what would normally be the correct anti-combo DI sets the opponent up for down b cancels, and by then they're probably low and off the stage. Not the place to be, especially against Lucario.

I like his current design and wouldn't want changes that drastic at this point.

 

[drsusredfish]

So far there isn't really anything in brawl lucario that i miss or want in P:M lucario. They definatley should not limit his
cancels. His cancels are different but they fit in smash well enough to still be considered smash-like. Lucario having alot of
cancel options is like zelda having alot of defense options. They have more than most characters but you still handle them like
any other smash character. What is the clear definition for "proper essence of a Smash bros character"?

His current range is fine but his sweet spots should be easier to hit. The sweet spot on up air is too hard to hit so it hardly gets used. bair's sweet spot, and bair in general, feels like it hits at a weird angle.

 

[Giygacoal]

I think he needs more rewarding (working better with magic series, for example) aerials and a down b with a bit less startup lag.

 

[Darkgun]

I feel as though Lucario as of now is exceptionally well designed. The moves one uses in extended combos require knowledge of positioning, your opponent's options, and a fair bit of reaction time, and most, if not all, of his moves cannot combo off each other without the use of the Magic Combo system (and when I say this I am including ASC tricks such as fair>ASC>fair vs fair>fair, the latter of which to my knowledge does not reliably link). The amount of prowess required to effectively control Lucario kind of baffles me when I talk about it, though it most certainly feels natural after a month or so of practicing with him. Also, his unique design does make for a character that isn't like anyone else so far, and that's a pretty cool concept.

Aside from Double Team being suggested for use to "bypass projectiles, [and] get behind foes, " (But let's face it: who even does this? Further more, what characters are unsafe when using their projectiles or safe to crossup using DT?) according to the Project M character page it is kind of... well... fine, actually. With that in mind, it still follows the current design of Lucario's moves, such that it cannot be used to reliably link an attack chain together unless it is cancelled with an Aura Charge, so to keep this balance, the move would have to face a slow down somewhere along the line, be it in the invulnerable frames (which would kind of be a buff, actually), or during the end lag. Also, if DT is buffed with a shorter startup time, I will not be complaining in the slightest.

 

[Giygacoal]

I just think Lucario needs more viable combo starting options. Improved aerials would probably be enough for that purpose. Yes, he's generally well-designed, and his magic series combined with his meter cancels allow some really great stuff, but I dislike having to start with dash attack so much. Also, the 2.6 side-tilt animation looks really stylish.

 

[~Frozen~]

The lack of viable combo starting options is what makes Lucario balanced where he is. It's one of his weaknesses the player needs to work around. Also, he has more options to start than just dash attack: Jabs, Fair, and Dthrow/Uthrow all lead into a lot of stuff, for example.

Also Double Team Cancel is one of your best friends for approaches/combo starting, I SERIOUSLY recommend using it if you don't already.