Okay, so -why- is Rosalina broken?

[IzzyWright]

Or:

Teach me how to wreck with RL.

I've fought a fair number of Rosalinas online, most weren't really anything special. There have been a handful who gave me trouble, but even as a Megaman main, I haven't felt this "omg she's so OP" thing everyone else seems to be about.

I loved SM Galaxy and mained Peach for 8 years in SSBM, so Rosalina seems like a fun continuation of my smash adventures, but MM just feels... right more than she does.

Soumm, what am I missing about her? What do you use and abuse to wreck your opponents? What scares you?

And I guess what are some dirty secrets cuz melee ICs were fun and if she has any of that yay.

In exchange... Idk, how to beat a MM even harder?

 

[Nadeko Sengoku]

I really like when my opponents ignore Luma as it can catch people by surprise and do some decent damage. What I hate the most is losing Luma, just watching it fall in that helpless state for like 2~3 seconds and the cry it makes me a die a little each time. But seriously when I lose Luma I feel very limited because as SoRo you have less kill moves, less knockback, and less damage; although SoRo isn't helpless, she definitely needs Luma. As for dirty secrets, there really aren't any that you can't find here on the forums. Although you do learn certain things only from playing her alot

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I get the distinct impression that people consider Rosalina "broken" (spoilers: she isn't) because she's the first real puppet fighter in Smash and everyone's still adjusting to her unique strengths and trying to figure out how to deal with her.

She's almost certainly in the top 10, even after 1.0.4, but it's just so easy to swat Luma away if you're not stupid about it and Rosalina can't do a whole lot without it other than play defense. Which she's still fairly good at, but she lacks a real approach option by herself so that's instant breathing room.

 

[Steam]

didn't my complaining about her on fb answer this thread?

just play sunny if you want to experience rosalina being abused, she has a lot of stupid things about her, but if there's one thing you really wanna ***** out it's her nair

 

[truecrisis]

Megaman actually gives me the some trouble as Rosalina. His projectiles stun Luma really well and makes approach a little difficult.

Anyway, what makes Rosalina good for me, is she has about 5 different playstyles I can switch through on the fly.
The two easy to understand styles are: Luma attached, and Luma detached. Then we have two other easy to understand styles: Luma-centric play, and Rosalina-centric play.

The thing about her, is shes slow to rack up damage compared to other characters because she splits damage with Luma. Often the hit from one doesn't compliment the other - especially if they are separated. Where another characters Nair would do 14%, RosaLuma will do like 10+4. If your attempt at the hit connects with the 4, it may not hit the 10.

Lemme go through your questions specifically: (this is all 1.0.3 info. I haven't played the patch yet)

What do you use and abuse to wreck your opponents?
> They forget about Luma. When an opponent knocks Rosie away, their eyes follow Rosie. MY EYES are NOT on Rosie, but instead Luma who is still back on the stage. Punishment ensues.
> If an opponent makes a mistake with landing lag, or charging a smash, or a falcon punch. I can chargeshot luma and get a free hit, or even a kill depending on how open they are.
> Starbits are great for making your opponent flinch. Not just the character - allowing a followup attack-, but it also wrecks their mental fortitude as it feels like a little shotgun blast of needles, interrupting their mojo. Kinda like Shiek.
> Her dash attack is really hard to get used to for the enemy. If you dont abuse it they wont be able to shield it properly. It can kill at around 180%
> Full Chargeshot Luma : easy to dodge right? Wrong. Try jumping and match your opponents landing approach, and starting your charge in the air. Your opponent will think "WTF do I do?" They will instinctively air-dodge, or will try a 2nd jump, or will just land and shield. Either way, based on how you read them release in the air, OR, release as they hit the stage with the landing-lag. Great finishing move.

What scares you?
> Fast, aggressive characters who know how to shield. Rosie is slow and a fast character can punish her very easily. Rosie is also not powerful like DK so her slow speed is not compensated by power.
> Also projectile heavy characters like Megaman who know how to bait their enemy into rolling toward them. They are hard because Rosie has no reflector and no spamable projectiles of her own without risking Luma. Her only option is to take to the air, or to roll into the enemy. Gravity is not viable unless the enemy has recoil from firing the projectile.

And I guess what are some dirty secrets cuz melee ICs were fun and if she has any of that yay.
> In 1.0.4 they nerfed her downsmash ending lag, but in 1.0.3, you could bounce the enemy from Luma to Rosie 2-5 times and get some really dirty damage in. Feels sooooooo gooooooood.

 

[Iron Kraken]

If you really just want a general list of reasons why Rosalina is good (as others have said, she's no where near broken), and still probably one of the top characters in the game even after a patch...

Her aerial hitboxes have huge range, linger for ages, have fantastic priority, and great kill power. Pretty much no one can challenge Rosa's u-air from above her. And it kills early. Dair can spike or alternatively hit off the side of the stage with great power; it's a great gimping move. So is her Fair. Her Nair is crazy. Although 1.0.4. reduced its power, if you use it right, it's very hard for your opponent to punish, because there is little landing lag, and it's active for an insane number of frames. While in midair, you can use it, then watch what your opponent does... you can either push towards them or away from them, you will be able to decide this after her Nair begins, because the attacks lingers for that long. Generally you'll want to follow up on this attack with an immediate d-tilt or f-tilt.

Luma is a 2nd hitbox on the stage. There are fairly obvious advantages to that. And don't fall for Luma's small size, it's deceptively powerful. Luma creates space that can be hard for your opponent to deal with. If they get in Luma's face, Luma can use star bits on them. And if they focus too much on trying to knock Luma way, Rosalina can take advantage of this.

When Luma is attached to Rosalina, her F-Smash has huge range and is very powerful. Her D-Smash has been slightly nerfed, but it covers a lot of ground and it's still very good. Her U-Smash has been nerfed but it's still a reliable KO move.

Rosalina's u-tilt has amazing range. Her D-Tilt covers a lot of ground, you can manipulate Luma to either hit well in front of Rosalina or to hit behind Rosalina. F-tilt is a nice quick attack with good range. She also has an excellent dash attack.

Luma creates a lot of defensive advantages. For one, Luma can literally absorb attacks for Rosalina by just taking the hit. Your opponent can also get stuck hitting Luma, and Rosalina can take advantage of this. Luma can also knock your opponents out of grabs if they hold Rosalina for more than a second, so your opponent simply cannot pummel you if Luma is nearby. Her gravitational pull is also a defensive asset against many characters with projectiles.

The other thing about Luma is that it will help you out at random times. Like, if your opponent getting in a follow up or a combo, Luma will often hit them right out of it. This is an advantage no other character gets, and probably the biggest reason why Rosalina & Luma have been so frustrating for many people to play against.

Her recovery isn't the best because it can be predictable, but it still has good range and is solid overall.

Rosalina does have her weaknesses. For one, she's the 4th lightest character in the game. She's also tall and floaty and this can make it difficult for her when attempting to get back on the ground after she has been hit into the air. She's also much weaker with Luma (although not a pushover) and sometimes it can be very easy to avoid having your Luma knocked off the stage, and each time that happens it's an extra 15 seconds before you'll get Luma back (counting the time it takes Luma to recover).

In summation, Rosalina & Luma's strengths and weaknesses:

Strengths:
-All of her aerial attacks are fantastic
-Great gimping ability
-Her attacks have priority in general
-Great tilt attacks
-Excellent dash attack
-Powerful smash attacks with good range (especially with Luma)
-Long-range recovery
-Luma prevents Rosalina from being pummeled
-Luma will often help Rosalina break free from your opponents combos and follow ups
-Luma absorbs hits
-Luma shenanigans in general (too much to go over here)

Weaknesses:
-4th lightest character in the game
-Luma can easily be knocked off the stage, especially if you're playing near the edge of the stage with your back to the edge.
-Each time Luma gets knocked off the stage, Rosalina will be much weaker for ~15 seconds
-Floatiness and predictable recovery can make it difficult for Rosalina to safely get back to the stage safely after being knocked away

Overall she has more going for her than she has against her, even after the recent patch.

One of the biggest reasons people probably called her "broken" was because before the patch, Luma was able to hit opponents as Rosalina was being thrown, but this has now been removed with the patch. So I expect the cries of Rosalina's brokenness to be subdued going forward.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ Iron Kraken : I know that you mentioned Rosalina having more pros than cons, but you need to remember the severity of Rosalina's cons, as they can be very detrimental to her, depending on her adversary.

 

[Iron Kraken]

@ Iron Kraken : I know that you mentioned Rosalina having more pros than cons, but you need to remember the severity of Rosalina's cons, as they can be very detrimental to her, depending on her adversary.

I remember the severity of her cons well! They're the reason why she's no where even remotely close to broken, especially after the patch, and why a few other characters might even be a notch above Rosalina at the moment.

 

[Stryker]

Megaman actually gives me the some trouble as Rosalina. His projectiles stun Luma really well and makes approach a little difficult.

Anyway, what makes Rosalina good for me, is she has about 5 different playstyles I can switch through on the fly.
The two easy to understand styles are: Luma attached, and Luma detached. Then we have two other easy to understand styles: Luma-centric play, and Rosalina-centric play.

Hey! This post was really great, and particularly this part became the focus of my training this afternoon. I wanted to say thank you for the concept and to pick your brain a bit if thats cool.

You mention 5 different styles, would you be able to go into further detail?

After playing around a bit, there are 3 main "styles" I've particularly liked.

Luma Focued Luma Detached
This I think is the most straight forward, fun and expected playstyles. It's what she is clearly made for, and what your opponent will likely expect. It is focused on spacing luma and keeping your opponent away from you while dealing damage safely. Not too much to say here as I'm sure many posts are exploring this.

Rosa Focused Luma Detached
This is where I really started to like what you mentioned. With this playstyle, your aim is to punish players who are focusing your poor little star buddy. Sending him out, and spacing grabs at him so that players launching attacks at Luma will get grabbed is a good example. Here you are looking to keep Rosa undamaged and properly spaced, and use Luma to bait your enemy into attacking it and punishing them.

Attached Style
So, personally I feel this style is for killing power, and keeping Luma safe from the enemy, particularly faster characters that can quickly kill it. My favorite part of this is the where the secondary Luma hitboxes are on her moves. Her nair is fun to space in particular in this style.

Just to make sure everyone knows, I'm NOT saying this is the "correct" or "best" way to play Rosa. Also, I could be missing a large piece of info I just haven't come across yet that may change my perspective. However, I'm liking this for conceptually thinking of Rosa as a character.

@ truecrisis How do you see her differently focused playstyles? Similar to this, or do you use them in even a different way? I was trying to think of other playstyles because you mentioned 5, but the only thing I could really come up with was a Luma centric Attached playstyle, but I feel like when attached, you're focus on both Rosa and Lumas hitboxes at once, rather than there being a Rosa Attached and Luma Attached playstyle seperately.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I think she may be a little OP, but she's definitely not broken.

It's a small gripe I know, but I really wish people in multiplayer games these days wouldn't throw the word broken around so much, because there's a distinct difference between broken and overpowered. Broken's supposed to be reserved for when a character has something that starts to actually mess with or even flat out break the games' mechanics in such a way that's uniquely advantageous to them.

Other than some anti-grab shenanigans with Luma and aquiring a wonky (but not nonexistent) hitbox on some of her moves I can't really think of anything that she does that's just breaking the games' mechanics, at least in an overwhelmingly bad way. It's not like her entire hitbox disappears at times when it shouldn't and she has access to a hugely advantageous unique mechanic that no one else has a la Super Turbo Akuma. Meta Knight in Brawl was maybe a lot more arguable as to whether he was OP or just maybe a bit game breaking, but that's Brawl. lol

 

[Karinole]

She's mostly just heralded as the new "broken" thing because of how people like to jump to conclusions about characters before too many results come in and are tested.

that being said...

RosaLuma is REALLY freaking good! She has a lot of quick and safe moves, decent aerials, excellent space control, and has very few bad matchups. She can be played defensively or offensively to fit anybody's playstyle and is a blast to use once you start! There isn't quite much I can say that hasn't been said by another (who's probably better than me too). Just give her a try!

 

[Garde Noir]

I get the distinct impression that people consider Rosalina "broken" (spoilers: she isn't) because she's the first real puppet fighter in Smash and everyone's still adjusting to her unique strengths and trying to figure out how to deal with her.

She's almost certainly in the top 10, even after 1.0.4, but it's just so easy to swat Luma away if you're not stupid about it and Rosalina can't do a whole lot without it other than play defense. Which she's still fairly good at, but she lacks a real approach option by herself so that's instant breathing room.

people thought the same about Zelda in PM 3.0, until the meta game adjusted.

 

[PartyHat]

It's the mental disorder you instantly get when she suddenly pops out in For Glory Mode on the opposite side of the stage with the name "UMAD?" above her head that makes here complete broken.

Nah, I think she is a litte bit too fast in some ways. The speed she just can teleport/roll back and forth while spamming down-smash makes her nearly unpunishable.

IMO Rosalina herself should take 1/2 of the damage Luma gets when he gets hit. Or 1/4. Just show me some progress if I'm able to send Luma apart for some seconds.

 

[soru]

She isn't.

 

[Iron Kraken]

IMO Rosalina herself should take 1/2 of the damage Luma gets when he gets hit. Or 1/4. Just show me some progress if I'm able to send Luma apart for some seconds.

This is an awful idea. You do realize that Luma doesn't have a shield, right?

Rosalina was already nerfed satisfactorily. She's no where close to broken and she's not overpowered, she's just good. It's okay for a character to be good.

 

[Garde Noir]

It's the mental disorder you instantly get when she suddenly pops out in For Glory Mode on the opposite side of the stage with the name "UMAD?" above her head that makes here complete broken.

Nah, I think she is a litte bit too fast in some ways. The speed she just can teleport/roll back and forth while spamming down-smash makes her nearly unpunishable.

IMO Rosalina herself should take 1/2 of the damage Luma gets when he gets hit. Or 1/4. Just show me some progress if I'm able to send Luma apart for some seconds.

anyone who has played as her after playing Sheik/ZSS/Greninja knows she is not Fast. Her aerials are slow and her game is predictable.

Everyone who wants to face a RosaLuma should know these points:
She's gonna send the Luma after you if you camp, and grab you if Luma is gone.
She needs stage control, and will know her recovery.
Upair is similar to Mega-Man's, but slower.
Downair is incredibly hard to hit, but I throw it out to fake you out, and so if you do get hit, it punishes you big.
Rosalina's roll a lot. Learn the roll game.
Her smashes are slow, and her dash has ending lag, as does a lot of her moves.
But Rosalina is about CONTROL
She will control you. It's inevitable. Every Rosalina main worthy of her salt will know points of every character where they can control you, and they WILL exploit it. If you want to be good against a Rosalina, know your faults, and learn how not to panic. She doesn't have combos like other characters, she has control.

The reason everyone thinks she's broken is because she's a new type of character. She isn't campy like Olimar in Brawl, she isn't projectile based, she isn't combo, she doesn't have a significantly better aerial than ground game or vise versa. She doesn't have a computer playing with her. Rosalina is new in a way another Smash character has never been new, because she's the first character where the player can stretch their arms. You are Master Hand, with a little bit of everything. But if you can't beat Master Hand, pick a different character.

 

[Steam]

Rosa aint broken no more, the nair is no more.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Even before the 1.0.4 update for Smash 3DS, Rosalina was far from broken. Strong perhaps, but she still had some obvious weaknesses that could be exploited.

 

[Nadeko Sengoku]

Even before the 1.0.4 update for Smash 3DS, Rosalina was far from broken. Strong perhaps, but she still had some obvious weaknesses that could be exploited.

speaking of patches, have you heard anything reguarding a new patch?

 

[icraq]

speaking of patches, have you heard anything reguarding a new patch?

No official word but I'm getting the general vibe that Rosalina is "okay" now, though most people still aren't big fans of the character. We'll see what that means if there's another patch, but I think we're mostly clear. If they're basing balance changes off Japan, Rosalina is performing worse in tournament over there.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

No official word but I'm getting the general vibe that Rosalina is "okay" now, though most people still aren't big fans of the character. We'll see what that means if there's another patch, but I think we're mostly clear. If they're basing balance changes off Japan, Rosalina is performing worse in tournament over there.

Based on Japan's tier list, Rosalina is ranked at the B level. However, Japan only tier lists don't do much justice, since in Brawl, Ganondorf is the worst fighter on the international tier list, even though Japan ranked him higher.

 

[Phenomiracle]

No official word but I'm getting the general vibe that Rosalina is "okay" now, though most people still aren't big fans of the character.

Attention has simply shifted from her to Diddy. Little Mac, then Rosaluma, then Diddy. Soon people will be going on about ZSS.

Unless the meta evolves to handle her (which we've seen little of even with patch 1.0.4), Rosaluma won't be getting much love by virtue of being top-tier. Stick with her and let the haters go on. I'd rather be hated than be laughed at (as a Zelda main), but that's just me.

Perhaps its just the greater prevalence of internet and social media in our lives than in 2008, but community resentment on practically any issue, from design choices to character balancing is incredibly more vociferous than it was post-Brawl release.

 

[Shanoa]

Attention has simply shifted from her to Diddy. Little Mac, then Rosaluma, then Diddy. Soon people will be going on about ZSS.

Unless the meta evolves to handle her (which we've seen little of even with patch 1.0.4), Rosaluma won't be getting much love by virtue of being top-tier. Stick with her and late the haters go on. I'd rather be hated than be laughed at (as a Zelda main), but that's just me.

Perhaps its just the greater prevalence of internet and social media in our lives than in 2008, but community resentment on practically any issue, from design choices to character balancing is incredibly more vociferous than it was post-Brawl release.

Pretty much this. I have been a Zelda Main too back in Brawl and it's a good change to main someone more viable (But Zelda is a lot better this game) regardless of all the hate you get.

Pre-patch Rosalina was completely fine IMO. People just need to learn how to counter her better.

But it's inevitable that people will always have a character to whine about. Rosalina just got attention because she was a new kind of fighter who can hit you out of grabs and various things if she is under the protection of Luma and people don't want to have to get used to her unique playstyle so they ignore her many weaknesses (like how hitlag from Luma can allow you to hit her during spotdodges or the fact that Luma can die very easily in Rosalina's offstage game).

It's not that hard to kill Luma you know.

 

[Garde Noir]

Even before the 1.0.4 update for Smash 3DS, Rosalina was far from broken. Strong perhaps, but she still had some obvious weaknesses that could be exploited.

This is what I'm trying to say. Even now, though Nair is just a worse F-air in most situations, Rosalina isn't broken, just strong, and like every strong character, can be beaten. People who cry "OP plz nerf" just don't want to learn to win. They want wining to be handed to them.

Attention has simply shifted from her to Diddy. Little Mac, then Rosaluma, then Diddy. Soon people will be going on about ZSS.

Unless the meta evolves to handle her (which we've seen little of even with patch 1.0.4), Rosaluma won't be getting much love by virtue of being top-tier. Stick with her and let the haters go on. I'd rather be hated than be laughed at (as a Zelda main), but that's just me.

Perhaps its just the greater prevalence of internet and social media in our lives than in 2008, but community resentment on practically any issue, from design choices to character balancing is incredibly more vociferous than it was post-Brawl release.

ZSS will never, because she can pretty easily be punished. Yoshi or DK will be called next, because no one is quite used to Yoshi's speed (in battling against, or even in using) and DK is being used heavily in Japan right now

 

[suetake]

Hi,
sorry for my language im french i m played online with rosa and during my match i UpB then ofc i fall on lag on the stage but when i press A luma attack ok i know dat she can attack when we are stunned and just after the hitsun or lag whathever.. But it can be very interesting because after luma attack mu opponent with his A i caught him and luma still attack him during the catch
What ur feeling ? im gonna upload the video if u want

youtube.com/watch?v=jOQ20Lvo-YA&feature=youtu.be
at 00:49

 

[gameplayzero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tppAArT-gdU&list=UUGzrFaIpxd9hnC3Hn6MKOOw&index=3

this is why. Sakurai!!!


full video for proof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiEmmE9PUm4&list=UUGzrFaIpxd9hnC3Hn6MKOOw

 

[icraq]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tppAArT-gdU&list=UUGzrFaIpxd9hnC3Hn6MKOOw&index=3

this is why. Sakurai!!!


full video for proof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiEmmE9PUm4&list=UUGzrFaIpxd9hnC3Hn6MKOOw

utilt is one of those low knockback growth, high base knockback moves, and im not sure how this happened. im under the impression vectoring doesn't work with vertical attacks but maybe it does with utilt, and they vectored straight up.
or it just wrecks bowser jr. anyways good find!

 

[Steam]

Even before the 1.0.4 update for Smash 3DS, Rosalina was far from broken. Strong perhaps, but she still had some obvious weaknesses that could be exploited.

She was quite broken because she didn't pay nearly enough for luma dying on top of the fact that back then her lumanair single handedly beat entire characters. She wasn't even the best but truly broke the game in quite a few matchups. She's not an issue anymore though now that the nair hitbox was made to be reasonable.

 

[Nadeko Sengoku]

She was quite broken because she didn't pay nearly enough for luma dying on top of the fact that back then her lumanair single handedly beat entire characters. She wasn't even the best but truly broke the game in quite a few matchups. She's not an issue anymore though now that the nair hitbox was made to be reasonable.

I can't wait to see/hear about what's "broken" next week/month

 

[Steam]

I can't wait to see/hear about what's "broken" next week/month

Right now, nothing in my opinion. The only broken thing other than the buggy stuff was rosa's nair.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

She was quite broken because she didn't pay nearly enough for luma dying on top of the fact that back then her lumanair single handedly beat entire characters. She wasn't even the best but truly broke the game in quite a few matchups. She's not an issue anymore though now that the nair hitbox was made to be reasonable.

Even before the patch though, Rosalina was nowhere near Meta Knight broken; she still had problems against certain fighters. People were just not willing to adapt to Rosalina's combat style.

 

[Steam]

Even before the patch though, Rosalina was nowhere near Meta Knight broken; she still had problems against certain fighters. People were just not willing to adapt to Rosalina's combat style.

While she wasn't as busted as MK, she quite obviously far ahead of most of the rest of the cast. And her Nair was good beyond what any of MK's moves were when you don't take reward into account. If you couldn't straight up beat it out and if you didn't have a very quick short hop fair, you could do nothing but run from the move as it option selected everything else.