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Oh Sonic, what shall I do...(Rant time)

Shariq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
374
Location
Australia
You may or may not agree with me. And you may think I am an idiot. But whatever.

When Sonic was revealed to be in Brawl I was so damn excited. As soon as I got the game I played through the Sub Space Emissary and when I unlocked him he was literally the only character I played as for the next few years. I only played Smash semi competitively back then as I didn’t find out about the whole “hard core” competitive side of it until like a little over a year ago. Which led to me finding out things such as that Sonic wasn’t that good of a character competitively and the whole Melee vs Brawl thing. Yet because I loved the character so much and was still so happy he was in a Smash game I continued to main him. I started learning all the advanced techniques of the character and diving into the competitive aspect of Smash.

After I had gotten good with him I started my own experimentation’s with the character now that I had a better grasp of the Smash series as a competitive game. I quickly found many potential combos/follow ups with him which of course didn’t actually work in game as you could air dodge out of hitstun in Brawl. But this was when Smash 4 had already been announced and we knew that you couldn’t air dodge out of hitstun in it. So I was really excited that at least I could do these awesome and flashy combos with Sonic in Smash 4.

Boy was I in for a surprise. When I finally got Smash 3DS and started experimenting with Sonic my excitement quickly disappeared. Sure Sonic was overall improved from Brawl and is actually really good now. Yet quite a few little details were changed which really annoy me. All those potential combos that I had found in Brawl don’t work with him. For example back air can no longer combo, down tilt doesn’t prop opponents up for the perfect follow up, you can only homing attack once in the air, to auto cancel dair you have to be way higher than before and there are some other smaller details.

Plus there are the changes to the game overall which remove a lot of Sonics potential follow ups. Knock back on a lot of moves such as up tilt, up throw and forward throw is too much for combos that would work if knock back was like it was in Brawl. Overall Sonic has improved but a lot of these minor changes some of which are with Sonic himself and some because of the game engine just take away a lot not only from him but other character as well and this bugs me. So yes, I am also blaming the game for having what I think is an unnecessary amount of knock back.

Couple this with the fact that the excitement of Sonic being in Smash has kind of worn out for me, I have found myself not enjoying using him that much. I have started using other characters more. Now I will still use Sonic just because I like the character so much. Also I am hoping that with the Wii U versions superior controls maybe I will be able to do more stuff with him. But for now I am not using him much at all and it kind of saddens me. End rant.
 

NotLiquid

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,343
If a character has to have changes in combo ability and meta game in order to actually improve and stand a chance, I think thats a worthy sacrifice.

All those superfluous combos mean jack if they don't amount to anything. You're just playing to show off in those cases. Find other things that work instead of relying on old tricks.
 
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Espy Rose

Dumb horse.
Joined
May 31, 2006
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30,577
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Texas
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Playing to show off is Sonic's credo. We're Sonic fans. It's what we do. :applejack:
 

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
3,118
Location
Lincolnshire, England.
NNID
Gengite
3DS FC
5456-0280-5804
I don't know how you can complain about HA changing. It makes me vomit 300% less than brawls iteration. I think the most annoying thing is the lack of ASCSC. Spin options are more limited now, but buffs in most other areas kind of iron it all out.

Using other characters is always a good thing. If you find a character you're better with that's always good. It also helps you identify weaknesses in that character, which makes the matchup easier against them whoever you're using, and also weaknesses in yourself. Playing Sonic over and over made me kinda lazy, using more of my Jiggz made me realise bad habits I was doing holistically, not just bad Sonic habits.

:077:

Totally not cool enough to be a brony. I just like Ponyta.
 

Shariq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
374
Location
Australia
Do you guys agree with any of my points? Because I seriously think knock back being too much is a drawback to Sonic and the game in general. Its like they fixed the hitstun issue that was in Brawl but they added more knock back to everything and on top of that added vectoring to keep combos at a minimum.
 

Sonic Orochi

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
874
Location
Brazil
I don't know how you can complain about HA changing. It makes me vomit 300% less than brawls iteration. I think the most annoying thing is the lack of ASCSC. Spin options are more limited now, but buffs in most other areas kind of iron it all out.
I'd be okay with just the lack of ASCSC. It's the lack of double jump after an aerial spin that irks me. And the lack of double jump when fastfalling a spin move.

I just can't shake this feeling of "that's really bad programming" when it comes to stuff like this. Just like how I think they've changed SD's hop just because they just couldn't prevent iSDR from happening again.
 

Shariq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
374
Location
Australia
I'd be okay with just the lack of ASCSC. It's the lack of double jump after an aerial spin that irks me. And the lack of double jump when fastfalling a spin move.

I just can't shake this feeling of "that's really bad programming" when it comes to stuff like this. Just like how I think they've changed SD's hop just because they just couldn't prevent iSDR from happening again.
Now that you mention the SD hop. I kind of think that as well. The change in the way the hop arcs just seems so weird and random. There was no reason to really change it. So changing it so iSDR doesn't happen seems like why they would do it.
 
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i personally like the increased knockback it makes out hits feel more solid and satisfying and rewards us for getting the punishes we've worked hard to get. but yea i will say not being abke to double jump out of an aerial spin attack is annoying. Especially when your forced to use an aerial spin dash/charge in order to escape grounded projectile pressure or an approaching opponent. we basically are then forced to either jump and spring/aerial to cancel the dash or simply stay grounded with it once we land which can get us punished pretty hard sometimes. But considering he's gotten other buffs i can deal with it kind of.
 

MrPhox

Tamed Beast
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Couldn't land them in Brawl, so what are you losing? You practiced pointless tactics and just found out that your investment was for nothing, THAT's what you're upset about. I've abandoned my Brawl main because he lost the flow and floatiness that I came to enjoy about it. Sometimes our expectations set us up to like a character less.

This makes me think of one of those so-called "qi masters" who have a dojo filled with students duped to believe in some techniques that don't actually work in a real fight. They all practice and invest so much in bull****, that they are in denial and refuse to question it. The end result is fully grown men taking make-believe hadoukens to the chest and stumbling onto their a$$es.
 

Shariq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
374
Location
Australia
Couldn't land them in Brawl, so what are you losing? You practiced pointless tactics and just found out that your investment was for nothing, THAT's what you're upset about. I've abandoned my Brawl main because he lost the flow and floatiness that I came to enjoy about it. Sometimes our expectations set us up to like a character less.

This makes me think of one of those so-called "qi masters" who have a dojo filled with students duped to believe in some techniques that don't actually work in a real fight. They all practice and invest so much in bull****, that they are in denial and refuse to question it. The end result is fully grown men taking make-believe hadoukens to the chest and stumbling onto their a$$es.
You are right in regards to my rant above. But after playing the game more and using many more characters I have realized its not Sonic that's changed. Literally every character has changed and I now understand why Sakurai said they built every character from the ground up. Even though most characters look the same, the way they all feel and flow in the game is very different. Add in the games new mechanics and slight engine tweaks, every character from Brawl is affected quite significantly for better or for worse. And people only really notice this for characters they either mained in Brawl or are familiar with. When I tried out Toon Link in this game he felt like a copy paste from Brawl, but as you said you mained him in Brawl and you noticed the slight changes and didn't like him to the point of abandoning him.
 
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Augi Jr.

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
48
As someone who has been playing smash obsessively since N64, when it came to Brawl, I gave it up fast; because coming from Melee, I knew I could never be satisfied with the changes they made.

When it comes to how characters feel in Sm4sh, it feels very close to Melee, except with greater care taken to make sure players can't exploit the games physics (like wavedashing). So the overall transition for me from Melee to Sm4sh has been much easier than those coming from Brawl. And I've enjoyed it. I'm glad that Sonic is suspected to place in the high/top tiers in Sm4sh as he was terrible in Brawl, and I love Sonic as a character in general.

I'm disappointed that characters like Marth, Peach, and especially Samus have retained a great deal of their Brawl attributes rather than getting a reset that puts them closer with their Melee side; as they were my goto characters in Melee. So it's an adjustment for most people. Hell, if you look at Link in N64 Smash, and compare him to later builds, he's never been the same or as powerful as the original (that original Forward Smash, god damn).

Luckily the entire roster is full of lovable characters. You're always sure to find one you like, that you're also good with.
 

Camalange

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Sonic had no priority. Duh, Espy.

:093:
 
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