Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Little Mac

[Amazing Ampharos]

Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.

 

[Quisciens]

I think having all standard custom moves, but with the Stunning Straight Lunge is a very powerful option. The Shock Lunge (as I like to call it) travels at a quick speed and farther distance while uncharged, making it much easier to land. It also grants you some boost in the air, which can help your long-distance recovery( though this is situational ).
Another powerful option is this, but with the Flaming Straight Lunge. This depends on the match-up, though. While the move doesn't move nearly as far or deal as much damage as the default, it has added flinch resistance when compared to default and charges seriously fast. You'll be plowing through Duck Hunt's projectiles.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

This is what I extracted from Reddit:

2 (Recovery option as it charges fast and has decent distance when recovering high)

3 (Might be placebo with the new patch, but it looks like it goes farther? It can pack a "punch" when the opponent is pressured)

1 (Best overall)

3 (another to help with recovering though can be 1 depending on playstyle differences) - 2 upvotes

2113 - 1 upvote

1113 - @Piford 0 upvotes

1322 - 1 upvote

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I usually stick with: Shocking Lunge, Jolt Haymaker, Rising Uppercut (although I do sometimes switch it up in favor if the Tornado Uppercut), Slip counter (or dash counter).

So Basically: 3111 and 3123

 

[Doruge]

I've found than Rising Smash (Up-B 3) can actually get a lot of height if you do it out of a double jump, plus it kills insanely early, so that's probably his best up-B. Guard Breaker (Side-B 3) has super armor so it makes it a lot harder to gimp him, plus it isn't even that much shorter than the normal side-b. He should definitely have these options:

3331
3131
3133

 

[Venks]

Figured I'd share this here since I posted it in the Standard Custom Project:

2111 and 2311 are pretty much the only sets that will see use.
The stunning lunge has no heavy armor and is just a worse version of Straight Lunge.
The Grounding Blow is really fun and can set up for good strings but is practically useless on any stage with platforms. Only useful if you're going to FD or Smashville.
The Tornado Uppercut does nothing but take away our only option against platform camping. Useless.
The Rising Smash is too slow to punish anything. Even with solid reads. Useless.
Compact Counter isn't the best as it reduces recovery options, but it does increase combo potential and that's something Little Mac severely lacks.

So yeah I'm not really a fan of 2123 or 2121. I can not imagine a single match up where Tornado Uppercut will benefit Little Mac in anyway. On the other hand 2211 and 2212 can help Little Mac DESTROY heavy weights. dTilt->Grounding Blow is so effective on Bowser, Wario, DK, Link, Ganon, Ike, Dedede, and Charizard. These characters are really easy to hit due to their width. Dependent on percentage and where the attack hits, grounding blow can either spike the opponent for a techable ground bounce, bury them into the ground during their landing, or send them away from Little Mac.

Grounding Blow gives Little Mac an option to actually follow up his attacks a bit more reliably than usual. This is huge for him because his damage output with this is crazy. The only reason it is last on the list is because it's not usable on most stages.
Compact Counter reduces Little Mac's options in the air, but it gives him another way to combo into Grounding Blow or a Kill move.

A lot of Little Macs like Jolt Haymaker to recover, but I was the highest performing Little Mac in Melbourne, Australia in both custom and non-custom tournaments and I prefer Rising Uppercut. You can come back a lot easier from a stage spike than you can from a fAir/bAir hitting you during Jolt Haymaker.
Still though those players have 2111 and 2311. I'm just arguing that 2211 and 2212 are significantly more useful in matchups than 2123 or 2121.

 

[Doruge]

Rising Smash can't be useless...it goes higher than the normal Up-B and is way more rewarding on hit...

 

[Venks]

Rising Smash can't be useless...it goes higher than the normal Up-B and is way more rewarding on hit...

Rising Smash is P3 in the pink hoody. It is the slowest of the specials to activate and travels the smallest vertical distance. Rising Smash KOs around 65% if you can land it, but unfortunately that's highly unlikely to happen. The huge start up delay makes it something you'd only use to punish things with lots of recovery frames like Bowser's side smash. I'd almost consider this move if it wasn't for the fact it isn't a real recovery move. The delay before activation means you'll start to fall before you go up at all. Really bad move.

The Tornado Uppercut is being used by P2 with the blonde hair. The move looks to go ever so slightly higher than the default special, but this difference is negligible. The wind box of this move has saved me a few times from someone attempting to stage spike me. It definitely seems like the safest of the three options when it comes to recovering. But in the end it doesn't stop people from stage spiking you, it just makes it less likely. Even with this Little Mac is easy to gimp if the opponent times and positions themselves carefully.

Platform camping and opponents jumping from ledge are problems for Little Mac. Rising Uppercut helps to make these things less painful. I personally would never use anything, but Rising Uppercut for my up special unless I was playing in 2v2.

I've found in 2v2 you don't need to worry about being combo'd because your partner can interrupt that. This means you'll be on stage much more often. Also if you have a good off-stage partner they can help you recover from places you normally can't.
This is the only format where I'll use Rising Smash because my partner can set up a situation that makes it more than practical for me to land the attack.

 

[Doruge]

I should have clarified, it only goes higher if you do it immediately out of a jump, since it retains his momentum. In fact I'm pretty sure it goes higher than DJ + Tornado Uppercut although I only tested it against regular Up-B

 

[Venks]

I should have clarified, it only goes higher if you do it immediately out of a jump, since it retains his momentum. In fact I'm pretty sure it goes higher than DJ + Tornado Uppercut although I only tested it against regular Up-B

No it doesn't go higher. It almost goes as high. I am impressed to see it's not as bad as I thought it was.
But it is still the worst option for recovering.

It only goes almost as high as Rising Uppercut if you're using the momentum from a jump. Still two other problems.
1) If you're recovering from off stage this requires you to actually have your double jump when Little Mac makes it just under the ledge. This means you have less recovery paths coming back towards the stage. This makes you much easier to gimp.

2) The Rising Smash doesn't move slightly to the left or right like Rising Uppercut and Tornado Uppercut do. So that means you have to closer to ledge, falling further down, before you have the option to recover.

 

[Doruge]

I just tested it again using custom stage platforms to measure distance, Rising Smash was in between regular and Tornado. Maybe you weren't doing it soon enough out of the DJ, you have to do both at almost the same time.

As for the other things, yeah it does make stuff like DJ -> airdodge -> Up-B harder. That's why Guard Breaker is good, the super armor makes you way harder to gimp. And, if you're moving left/right when you DJ -> Up-B, you'll keep the momentum during the beginning of the move. It's not much but you don't move much during the regular Up-B either.

 

[Venks]

Yeah you were right. Rising Smash does recover just the slightest bit higher than Rising Uppercut if used in tandem with double jump momentum. And I completely agree that Guard Breaker is good, but Guard Breaker reduces how far you can travel horizontally. Rising Smash is good, but at high level play every single time you go off stage you need to prevent yourself from being gimped. Not having double-jump into air dodge as an option reduces Little Mac's possible recovery paths. That makes him more predictable and easier to gimp.

And the whole point of this is to have the greater power of Rising Smash right? How do you land that attack?
With Rising Uppercut I tend to land it on people who predictably jump from the ledge, recover too high, and platform campers.
I can't do any of that with Rising Smash due to the huge delay.

 

[A2ZOMG]

My two cents on Little Mac customs:

Dash Counter is a viable option for recovery. It has less total frames than regular counter, meaning you can actually throw it out offstage, and still make it back to the stage if your opponent tries to be funny and not attack you hoping you gimp yourself. And when you do actually get the counter, you get back on stage very safely. I would definitely consider Dash Counter against characters with projectiles, not even because of punishing projectiles with this move, but because this is potentially your best option for getting around things like projectile edgeguards.

Venks, you've stated yourself that Little Mac's SideB is a suboptimal recovery move, so I'm actually somewhat confused that you seem turned off by Guard Breaker's supposed lack of distance. It's not like the Default really sends you very far anyway. Now, Grounding Blow actually does get okay diagonal distance, and of course it does have the moderately situational combo utility that you brought up. But if you don't DI poorly and follow competitive basics for managing your other recovery resources, Guard Breaker can make you practically ungimpable. You can basically guarantee that you reach the ledge safely with Guard Breaker. I would definitely at least run Guard Breaker over default in the majority of situations simply because it's an amazing move for Mac's recovery.

I wanted to say the distance on Tornado Uppercut + double jump is actually pretty good, but yeah. Honestly, it probably won't really stop you from getting gimped by characters that specialize in it, while Default is way too valuable of a tool for securing threatening punishes above Mac.

 

[Venks]

My two cents on Little Mac customs:

Dash Counter is a viable option for recovery. It has less total frames than regular counter, meaning you can actually throw it out offstage, and still make it back to the stage if your opponent tries to be funny and not attack you hoping you gimp yourself. And when you do actually get the counter, you get back on stage very safely. I would definitely consider Dash Counter against characters with projectiles, not even because of punishing projectiles with this move, but because this is potentially your best option for getting around things like projectile edgeguards.

Venks, you've stated yourself that Little Mac's SideB is a suboptimal recovery move, so I'm actually somewhat confused that you seem turned off by Guard Breaker's supposed lack of distance. It's not like the Default really sends you very far anyway. Now, Grounding Blow actually does get okay diagonal distance, and of course it does have the moderately situational combo utility that you brought up. But if you don't DI poorly and follow competitive basics for managing your other recovery resources, Guard Breaker can make you practically ungimpable. You can basically guarantee that you reach the ledge safely with Guard Breaker. I would definitely at least run Guard Breaker over default in the majority of situations simply because it's an amazing move for Mac's recovery.

I wanted to say the distance on Tornado Uppercut + double jump is actually pretty good, but yeah. Honestly, it probably won't really stop you from getting gimped by characters that specialize in it, while Default is way too valuable of a tool for securing threatening punishes above Mac.

Oh don't get me wrong. Guard Breaker is an amazing tool both onstage and offstage. The reduced horizontal recovery distance is more than worth it because you can't be halted by a simple fAir. So it actually makes recovering horizontally an option against players who are more willing to play off stage.

I'm just against using both Guard Breaker and Rising Smash at the same time. Little Mac is a lot harder to gimp if he's recovering from underneath the stage, but it's still more than doable. If you've been recovering low multiple times then a competent player will attempt to stage spike you. That's when you start mixing up your recovery by switching to Jolt Haymaker.

The thing with Guard Breaker and Rising Smash is that they are more strict with their recovery paths. The even shorter distance of Guard Breaker makes it more apparent if you're attempting to recover high or low. And of course Rising Smash requires you to have your double jump available so it also more apparent when you're going for it because you won't be lined up horizontally.

Both of these custom specials limit the angles you can approach the stage from. Why make both your horizontal and vertical recovery paths as predictable as possible?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Oh baby, have you guys tried short hop airdodge into buffered Rising Smash (UpB 3)? That's wicked powerful. The only problem is that you don't have invulnerability frames on startup like you do with Rising Uppercut (UpB 1). Furthermore, the first hitbox that scoops people into the air doesn't reach as far as the first hitbox for Rising Uppercut, making it a poor OoS option. Still, killing people as early as 50-60% from the ground is not to be taken lightly.

As for the height you gain from Rising Smash, the aerial version of it and Rising Uppercut are almost identical. The problem is that Smash has a windup period where Mac will continue to fall until the move becomes active. So unless you've got your double jump handy, Smash is a garbage option for getting back to the stage. That's why I like Grounding Blow (SideB 2)for recovering. It gives you height in addition to as much distance as aerial jolt haymaker (SideB 1).

Argh, if custom moves become standard, I'll be so indecisive. They're all either equally good, or equally poor, and I'll end up choosing the fun setup rather than practical.

 

[Teshie U]

Guard breaker is a must-have imo. Super armor and beating shields means people simply have to get out of the way, improving what you can do against platform camping and edgeguarding. Safely reaching the ledge every time is something Mac is going to NEED for viability. Having to build enough damage to deadzone Little Mac offstage is forcing them to play Mac's game much longer before going for that backthrow gimp.

Default Up B just outclasses Rising Smash because there are far more situations where it actually CAN hit. Having a strong move that is hard to land is not going to help Mac much. He needs reliable anti air from his specials and what can be better than an invincible up B with lots of reach and a fully armored kill move that does nearly 20 damage.

 

[busken]

I like Rising Smash and Guard Breaker alot. Guard Breaker literally means they can't challenge your sideways recovery and rising smash can KO REALLY EARLY. Keep in mind that jab 1->up B is a solid kill option, as well as UP-B oos.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Does Guard Breaker have super armor on Frame 1? The frame data repository seems to suggest that it starts on Frame 12, which sounds pretty underwhelming. Maybe there's some niche application, but I wouldn't really expect to hit anyone with it.

Rising Smash seems too unreliable on a character who seems to get most of his KOs from his Frame 3 Up-B. It also leaves you hanging in the air longer and has significantly longer landing lag, making you eat a charged Smash on whiff for sure and making punishment easier when you have a platform to land on. It starts on Frame 13, and Mac has more than enough slow-ish KO moves, I'd say.

As an aside, Tornado Uppercut appears to have a much bigger rising hitbox than the standard, so it's actually surprisingly solid for preventing gimps.

 

[Teshie U]

I dont know the data on it, but if its close to 15 or under thats very useful for a move that powers through everything. As an attack, it HAS to be avoided.

Worth noting, it also falls straight down when buffered out of hitstun. This can be used to break out of juggles that might be tricky for counter and risky for flaming lunge.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Except for the part where it has more landing lag than normal and is grabbable leading up to that point, and that people are generally already predisposed to respecting your super armor from Smashes.

I think that other than specific frame traps and specific recovery stuff it doesn't seem like it does much good compared to the other two.

 

[Venks]

Except for the part where it has more landing lag than normal and is grabbable leading up to that point, and that people are generally already predisposed to respecting your super armor from Smashes.

I think that other than specific frame traps and specific recovery stuff it doesn't seem like it does much good compared to the other two.

I find Guard Breaker to be extremely situational in neutral. I only use it on stage when I know my opponent will be using a laggy move and I can't reach them with side smash. IMO the main use for Guard Breaker is recovering high. If the opponent doesn't have a wind box to blow you away then they can't stop you from recovering. That is extremely useful.

 

[Teshie U]

Except for the part where it has more landing lag than normal and is grabbable leading up to that point, and that people are generally already predisposed to respecting your super armor from Smashes.

I think that other than specific frame traps and specific recovery stuff it doesn't seem like it does much good compared to the other two.

I don't see anyone really trying to grab you out of it. You wouldn't throw it out against an uncommited foe. It would be used to break through otherwise safe walling, in the air to make strong trade and beat shields on platforms. Definitely covers more distance than his smashes and forces them to respect your armor/invincibility all the time.

 

[Laitome]

just wanna add: little mac's guard breaker(3) and standard jolt haymaker(1) travel the about the same distance in the air

 

[Doruge]

Mac is getting 10 sets at Evo, and since everyone seems to agree neutral-b 2 and up-b 1 are always optimal:

2111
2112
2113
2211
2212
2213
2311
2312
2313

This covers all bases and leaves 1 set open for a different up-b/neutral-b

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

This covers all bases and leaves 1 set open for a different up-b/neutral-b

It's pretty excellent that we've narrowed the potential options down by choosing two optimal moves. If I had to vote, I'd put Tornado Uppercut (UpB 2) as the final choice. It's much more game changing than the other options of neutral B. On the other hand, some Mac mains may be entering doubles, where stunning lunge has just a bit of potential, but I'd say it's less likely Mac players want that than they want a different UpB.

If we end wanting more spaces for more variant neutral B and Up B, maybe we could make a poll for people to vote for their sets to help trim down the options and make space for that.

 

[Venks]

Mac is getting 10 sets at Evo, and since everyone seems to agree neutral-b 2 and up-b 1 are always optimal:

2111
2112
2113
2211
2212
2213
2311
2312
2313

This covers all bases and leaves 1 set open for a different up-b/neutral-b

I'm starting to have second thoughts about Tornado Uppercut. Originally I didn't see the worth in the attack because while it was better for recovering it didn't really help Little Mac too much against stage spikes (run off stage back air). It helped a bit, but did not seem worth trading away a KO move and one of Little Mac's only options for fighting against platform camping.

Having spent more time with players that are beginning to learn Little Mac more intimately I've found that Little Mac is extremely weak to gimps against certain characters that can cover both Jolt Haymaker and Rising Uppercut at the same time. Two characters that instantly come to mind are Sonic with his down smash and Bowser with his down tilt. Both of these attacks can hit off stage to stop Jolt Haymaker and hit slightly under the stage to beat out Rising Uppercut.

I'd like to test out Tornado Uppercut more for matchups like this as the move has a bigger hit box and theoretically could beat out attacks that hit under the stage. I'll be testing it out more myself so I can be sure if it consistently wins in these situations or not.
If it does win then the move might really deserve a place in at least one set even if it's only in 2222. So far I haven't come across many players who attempt to gimp Little Mac with attacks that hit under the stage, but with time this could become a real problem as people learn the matchup.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Mac is getting 10 sets at Evo, and since everyone seems to agree neutral-b 2 and up-b 1 are always optimal:

2111
2112
2113
2211
2212
2213
2311
2312
2313

This covers all bases and leaves 1 set open for a different up-b/neutral-b

This is honestly a pretty logical way to look at it with either 2121 or 3111 as the last choice (Tornado Uppercut is really awful for Mac IMO whereas I can see an argument for 3111). We'll defer to the wisdom of the Mac masses regardless, but I like a post like this that could prospectively make a character really simple with what appears to be a logical argument.

 

[Splash Damage]

This is honestly a pretty logical way to look at it with either 2121 or 3111 as the last choice (Tornado Uppercut is really awful for Mac IMO whereas I can see an argument for 3111). We'll defer to the wisdom of the Mac masses regardless, but I like a post like this that could prospectively make a character really simple with what appears to be a logical argument.

Looking at that list, there's really nothing missing, as it covers all of the niche/MU options and has plenty of exposure for all the side-B options.

Honestly, I never really noticed that LM's customs were able to be dealt with formulaically, though I will admit the whole only-one-custom-in-two-categories-is-good thing kinda flew over my head. I'd cast my vote for 3111 as the final misc. set, as there is almost certainly an unknown tech/combo associated with it. 2121 is certainly good for Mac's recovery, but something tells me that 3111 is smarter to include. I could be wrong and if the majority is leaning towards 2121, then by all means include that one instead.

 

[Raijinken]

If we're to use those nine sets, I think it'd be fair to make the last set either Tornado or Smash Uppercut, depending on which is more popular. Thus, it'd be something like 2X2X or 2X3X.

 

[Splash Damage]

If we're to use those nine sets, I think it'd be fair to make the last set either Tornado or Smash Uppercut, depending on which is more popular. Thus, it'd be something like 2X2X or 2X3X.

If this is the case, easily Tornado. Smash is on the teeter between being either completely useless in competitive or cheap and broken, and we already know that Tornado is good enough to validate a single set.

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

Mac is getting 10 sets at Evo, and since everyone seems to agree neutral-b 2 and up-b 1 are always optimal:

2111
2112
2113
2211
2212
2213
2311
2312
2313

This covers all bases and leaves 1 set open for a different up-b/neutral-b

I propose that the 10th slot either be 3111, 3311, 3112, or 3212.

 

[Venks]

I've done a lot more testing with Tornado Uppercut and found it to be pretty much useless for preventing gimps from attacks that hit underneath the stage. While the hitbox is bigger, it's still not big enough to cover the hurt box of your fist. I really wouldn't mind if Tornado Uppercut didn't get in at all. Maybe someone else can find a use for the move, but I haven't found anything,

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Might be worth considering as a way to aid in edgeguards, though it's pretty weak and doesn't send at a sharp angle. Mac has very little to threaten an opponent offstage with, and there could be certain matchups where a weak ledge spike or love tap sideways is all he needs to mess up a recovery, while F-Air and B-Air take too long.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Incidentally, 2222 is a very viable set for Mac. I personally like 2212, but if that were nowhere to be found at a tournament I attended, I would definitely take 2222 over vanilla Mac. As for the final set, how about 2223. If I wasn't a player that perused frame data, then I'd think the customs for Little Mac should obviously be the choices that boost his recovery, and these are all the top choices for covering that.

 

[Venks]

Incidentally, 2222 is a very viable set for Mac. I personally like 2212, but if that were nowhere to be found at a tournament I attended, I would definitely take 2222 over vanilla Mac. As for the final set, how about 2223. If I wasn't a player that perused frame data, then I'd think the customs for Little Mac should obviously be the choices that boost his recovery, and these are all the top choices for covering that.

If recovery is the only thing I was focusing on I would go for Guard Breaker over Bury/Grounding Blow. Guard Breaker travels farther and has super armor so you can't be gimped by a fAir or a fTilt.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

If recovery is the only thing I was focusing on I would go for Guard Breaker over Bury/Grounding Blow. Guard Breaker travels farther and has super armor so you can't be gimped by a fAir or a fTilt.

Distance of guard breaker is about the same as jolt haymaker. Actually, it gives a bit of height, in comparison. When jolt haymaker was nerfed, it lost that bit of height, and the nerf was not applied to the other Side Bs. While the super armor is significant to get past edgeguarding, it doesn't provide as much height as grounding blow, which is used diagonally instead of horizontally toward the ledge. And like jolt haymaker, you control when Mac punches. That aspect let's you smite down/bury attackers that are getting too close to the ledge or attempting to run off to strike you.

It's really up in the air what the better option for recovery is, since they have non-competing strengths. If you wanted to make a recovery focused set, grounding blow and guard breaker are interchangeable, since likely neither of them will be used for recovery purposes over flaming lunge or tornado uppercut. Those two options are more difficult to challenge as the opponent.

 

[Splash Damage]

Found a new application for LM's Side B 2.

 

[PHYTO-1]

Found a new application for LM's Side B 2.

new? i think that was part of the reason why they made that custom side b. but nice video nonetheless

 

[Splash Damage]

new? i think that was part of the reason why they made that custom side b. but nice video nonetheless

I more meant to show off how the Spikebox can be a very effective way to punish thirsty edgeguarders when performing a Mid-High recovery.

 

[Splash Damage]

Just so we can have a definitive answer for the 10th LM set, please vote on this Strawpoll:
http://strawpoll.me/3805804