Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Signia]

the hell, your general usecase for SDI is to get out of a double hit attack or to reach a wall to tech on (neither tends to require more than a single SDI input), not make a journey around the stage (although that admittedly looks hilarious... much love to the perfect control videos).

The other use case is to make combos stop working by being just barely too far away or by nicking edge of platforms. The more control, the better.

SDI through jab flurries and getting out of Samus's up-B and Pikachu's Dsmash in v1.0 requires multiple SDIs too.

 

[Ben Zed]

Thought this may be the best place to ask, so...
What exactly is ledge cancelling? I mean, I know its like L Canceling in that it shortens the lag for aerial attacks, but how does it work? Is there any input to it, or is it just auto cancelled by landing on a ledge? Also, does it work on special moves? I have tried looking this up, but the wiki doesn't really provide the best explanation.

 

[Xyzz]

Have you noticed the animation that plays when your character is right next to the ledge and just about to fall off if he moves any further? You can cancel that with just about everything, and for whatever reason playing that is highly important and takes precedence over the aerial landing animation. So when you land right on a ledge you'll get that one and can do whatever you want to.

It's somewhat challenging to precisely stop there (you have to stop inputting a direction on the controlstick before entering that ledge animation, even holding away from the ledge will cause you to slide off), so usually you'll use your horizontal momentum to carry you the remaining distance to the ledge and slide right over it.

One of the easiest (read: free) ways to get a ledge cancel if you want to see it, is to plug your controller in the third slot and play Falco on battlefield. From your respawn position (note: respawn, not initial spawn position) you can just hold left on the controlstick and do any aerial and it'll ledge cancel on the side plat.
Captain Falcon in general is rather good at ledgecancelling, because his huge horizontal momentum allows you to land pretty far away from the ledge and still slide to it.

 

[FluxWolf]

Thought this may be the best place to ask, so...
What exactly is ledge cancelling? I mean, I know its like L Canceling in that it shortens the lag for aerial attacks, but how does it work? Is there any input to it, or is it just auto cancelled by landing on a ledge? Also, does it work on special moves? I have tried looking this up, but the wiki doesn't really provide the best explanation.

Ledge cancelling requires no input unlike L cancelling where you press L/R/Z
To ledge cancel, you do any move in the air and make it so when you land, your character slides off the platform cancelling any landing lag that would have been involved.

How do I practice L cancelling on a shield if I don’t have anyone to play?
Go grab a rubber band, and around another controller wrap the rubber band around L or R and just go play.

^Also can someone please change this in the main post? I don't think anyone does this and it doesn't seem like a good way to practice it anyways compared to the normal way.
Which is fighting a Bowser or DK with Handicap 9 and you Handicap 1, and Damage Ratio at 0.5 instead of 1.0. It simulates the same lag as when hitting a shield and then you don't have to worry about a rubber band haha.

 

[Phan7om]

You know how some characters, like Doc, Luigi, etc., can wave land after an aerial... What is the use for this? I think I might know but I want to know the exact uses for this.

 

[Xyzz]

Movement tricksies, mostly.

You might get an opponent to whiff an oos response if he thinks you're just going to land and have l-cancel landing lag. I don't think there's any aerial that's completed so soon, that he can't just punish you before you even land though... but he can't know whether you'll WL or throw out another aerial, so just mix it up.

 

[KingDozie]

What are the fastest/best way to grab ledge.

 

[Xyzz]

Depends on your character and the distance you have to cover to get there and the amount of techskill practice you're willing to invest.

Simply wavedashing to it is usually completely fine. If your character has a shine you can use that to turn around after running to cover the ground. If not just wavedashing forwards out of run, turning around and wavedashing backwards towards the ledge works perfectly fine (and is probably really fast if you've got a good WD).

Some characters have hilariously technical ways that are marginally better (e.g. spacies ledgecancelling side-b instead of running to get there).

 

[Sashimi]

Does anyone know why Yoshi sometimes powershields attacks after he is already in his shield?

 

[Xyzz]

You might try the yoshi boards, but I'm fairly sure this is one of the unsolved mysteries in melee

 

[tauKhan]

What are the fastest/best way to grab ledge.

If you are a long distance away from the ledge, I presume running toward the ledge -> teeter cancel* into dash backwards -> wavedash back -> fastfall might be the fastest way with many characters.

*teeter cancel into dash is performed by inputting dash exactly the same time you reach an edge when running.

 

[Bones0]

If you are a long distance away from the ledge, I presume running toward the ledge -> teeter cancel* into dash backwards -> wavedash back -> fastfall might be the fastest way with many characters.

*teeter cancel into dash is performed by inputting dash exactly the same time you reach an edge when running.

Wavedash into PC is usually faster.

 

[KingDozie]

Whats a PC?

 

[Xyzz]

PC drop.
When you walk and switch directions, your momentum won't stop instantaneously, so if you walk towards the ledge and turn around right as you reach it, your remaining momentum will carry you over the ledge, and since you've turned around you're facing correctly, too, so you'll grab the ledge.

It's possible to be super consistent with this (PC Chris does it a lot), but it's ... well, not easy

 

[SAUS]

Regarding grabbing after crouch-cancel, I have found that jump cancelling the grab works really well. Just thought I'd put that here since I was asking about it before.

New question:
Is it bad that I get annoyed when people celebrate after beating me in a game? I don't mean like a tournament game or anything, I mean people that are considered much worse than me beating me in a friendly and then celebrating and announcing to the world that they did so. Sometimes it's even from just taking a stock or two when they normally don't. I don't want to say to them that they aren't improving (cause that's most likely untrue and discouraging people from continuing to play and get better is the last thing I want to do), but getting 1 more stock in some random game when we play like 20 friendlies in a row is most likely not them improving.

 

[Bones0]

Regarding grabbing after crouch-cancel, I have found that jump cancelling the grab works really well. Just thought I'd put that here since I was asking about it before.

New question:
Is it bad that I get annoyed when people celebrate after beating me in a game? I don't mean like a tournament game or anything, I mean people that are considered much worse than me beating me in a friendly and then celebrating and announcing to the world that they did so. Sometimes it's even from just taking a stock or two when they normally don't. I don't want to say to them that they aren't improving (cause that's most likely untrue and discouraging people from continuing to play and get better is the last thing I want to do), but getting 1 more stock in some random game when we play like 20 friendlies in a row is most likely not them improving.

1. I'd recommend hold-buffering shield because you can mash A if you are unsure of how long their attack's stun will last, and if you try to grab too early you will hold shield instead of sitting still and getting hit.

2. I don't see how it benefits you to get annoyed by anything your opponent does outside the game. Even if it's not tournament, you're wasting time worrying about their thoughts and gameplay instead of your own. I have had people do similar things against me, but I guess I sort of just chalked it up to them achieving a personal goal. Maybe they did something they have messed up a bunch of times before. Maybe they made it a point to get more excited about their successes in order to promote improvement. Have I ever gotten a little salty that someone thinks they did something well when in reality I was just sandbagging/not focused/insert john here? Of course, but that's a problem with myself, not them. If you don't want people bragging about taking a stock off you, then don't let them take a stock off you... If someone brags about beating you in friendlies where you were testing/practicing stuff, show them your full potential in a MM or tourney set.

When you're talking about people that get consistently 4-stocked, I think getting happy over taking a stock is more a defense mechanism than anything else. If they can't get happy over that stock, then they're going to be miserable the entire time because they're not going to be winning and their improvement may not even be visible over the course of one session.

 

[OGPlumber]

I was wondering about when to use the roll (L/R + Forward/Backward). It has a set distance every time I use it, so it's pretty easy to predict where I'll end up, but at the same time I feel like it's really useful for getting behind the opponent. What do you guys use to maneuver around your opponents on the ground?

 

[Xyzz]

Often using rolls in neutral position to cross up your opponent is asking him whether he feels like comboing you. It's somewhat okay when your opponent plays a character that has longish winddowns and uses these moves in a predictable fashion so you can be invincible through the active frames and end up behind him (e.g. some newer Marths are prone to doing that).
Generally you should use rolls only when you have to take a defensive option and make sure to mix them up with others.

If you want to get behind your opponent for whatever reason (e.g. avoiding shield grabs), usually the best option is to use an aerial and jump rather late, so your momentum will carry you through him. For general maneuvering you want to use a mixture of wavedashes, dashes, run, jumps, etcpp :D

 

[KingDozie]

Often using rolls in neutral position to cross up your opponent is asking him whether he feels like comboing you. It's somewhat okay when your opponent plays a character that has longish winddowns and uses these moves in a predictable fashion so you can be invincible through the active frames and end up behind him (e.g. some newer Marths are prone to doing that).
Generally you should use rolls only when you have to take a defensive option and make sure to mix them up with others.

If you want to get behind your opponent for whatever reason (e.g. avoiding shield grabs), usually the best option is to use an aerial and jump rather late, so your momentum will carry you through him. For general maneuvering you want to use a mixture of wavedashes, dashes, run, jumps, etcpp :D

What do you mean for an aerial and jump late, so your momentum carries. Do you mean do a aerial then jump behind them.

 

[Xyzz]

Jump through them while doing an aerial

 

[OGPlumber]

Often using rolls in neutral position to cross up your opponent is asking him whether he feels like comboing you. It's somewhat okay when your opponent plays a character that has longish winddowns and uses these moves in a predictable fashion so you can be invincible through the active frames and end up behind him (e.g. some newer Marths are prone to doing that).
Generally you should use rolls only when you have to take a defensive option and make sure to mix them up with others.

If you want to get behind your opponent for whatever reason (e.g. avoiding shield grabs), usually the best option is to use an aerial and jump rather late, so your momentum will carry you through him. For general maneuvering you want to use a mixture of wavedashes, dashes, run, jumps, etcpp :D

I feel like if you were to do that, you would be invincible in the air, but then vulnerable as soon as you hit the ground.

 

[KingDozie]

How do you do that stickwalk stuff like marth or just moonwalk well with fox/falco?

 

[Bones0]

How do you do that stickwalk stuff like marth or just moonwalk well with fox/falco?

To moonwalk with most characters (including Marth, Fox, and Falco), you have to start from a walk instead of a dash. To stickywalk, simply dash forward after your moonwalk begins to drag you backwards.

 

[SAUS]

I feel like if you were to do that, you would be invincible in the air, but then vulnerable as soon as you hit the ground.

A lot of characters have weaker options for hitting opponents behind them when they are shielding - mostly they can't grab. So if you land behind them after doing an aerial on their shield and they always jump back to hit you, you can shield or crouch cancel it and punish them.

Being behind your opponent actually doesn't do anything by itself. They can just turn around and do whatever they could do forwards. The only time it matters is when they are shielding because shielding disables them from just doing anything they could just do forwards. If they use a really slow attack such that you could roll behind them and punish them, you probably could have done something else to still get a punish (not that it would be better, but rolling behind them doesn't really make it more deadly).

 

[SAUS]

If you are trying to do an immediate dash attack, how many frames of dash do you have to wait before you can do it?

 

[Xyzz]

If you press 'A' within the first three frames of dash you'll get a fsmash, anything after that would be a dash attack.

 

[Bones0]

If you press 'A' within the first three frames of dash you'll get a fsmash, anything after that would be a dash attack.

To specify, that is only with the initial dash. If you are trying to DA out of a DD, you can press A on the second frame of dash (pressing on the first would pivot ftilt/fsmash).

 

[Monkley6]

Can the lag from shield drop be interrupted by a jump?
To clarify, I don't mean "can you jump out of shield?" but once you drop shield by letting go of L/R, can I interrupt that lag (6 or 7 frames I think?) with a jump.

 

[Xyzz]

The answer "you can" happens to be shorter than 10 characters, so you got to read this sentence on top of it.

 

[OGPlumber]

A lot of characters have weaker options for hitting opponents behind them when they are shielding - mostly they can't grab. So if you land behind them after doing an aerial on their shield and they always jump back to hit you, you can shield or crouch cancel it and punish them.

Being behind your opponent actually doesn't do anything by itself. They can just turn around and do whatever they could do forwards. The only time it matters is when they are shielding because shielding disables them from just doing anything they could just do forwards. If they use a really slow attack such that you could roll behind them and punish them, you probably could have done something else to still get a punish (not that it would be better, but rolling behind them doesn't really make it more deadly).

That's actually pretty smart. So you're saying I should only aerial dodge through them when they're using their shield?

 

[Bones0]

Can the lag from shield drop be interrupted by a jump?
To clarify, I don't mean "can you jump out of shield?" but once you drop shield by letting go of L/R, can I interrupt that lag (6 or 7 frames I think?) with a jump.

In the future, you can test questions like this on your own using pause. If you let go of shield, pause to visually confirm you are in the shield release animation, and then hold X/Y/up when you unpause, the game buffers that input. One way I have used this for demonstrations in the past is by pausing on pivot frames. If you DD and pause when your character is standing straight up and down, you can input anything you want on the controller, and when you unpause your character will pivot into whatever attack you held.

That's actually pretty smart. So you're saying I should only aerial dodge through them when they're using their shield?

No, airdodging like that is too slow and laggy. He is talking about crossing up your opponent while attacking. A cross up is just when you go from one side of the opponent to the other. It's generally considered safer to cross someone up when they're facing you because they can't shield grab. You can attack while you jump over/through them to threaten them, apply shield stun, and then shield or avoid their counter attack OoS.

 

[OGPlumber]

Oh alright thanks

 

[Monkley6]

Thanks to both. I've never used pause for that before, but I read it somewhere, though it never occurred to me. I was just trying to drop shield using Z & jump asap, to be sure I was in the shield drop animation lol.

 

[doctorayegee]

I bought a "new" controller recently and the A and B buttons are easier to press than the other buttons. They don't really click like the other buttons. I don't really mind because I got used to it and actually like it better than other controllers. Anyways, I was just wondering if anyone else has bought a controller like mine.

 

[KingDozie]

How do you punish a roll away?

 

[Xyzz]

Getting stage position, unless you play something really fast and/or are willing to hard read the roll.

 

[KingDozie]

How do you deal with Crouch cancel spammers?

 

[Bones0]

How do you deal with Crouch cancel spammers?

http://smashboards.com/threads/things-to-do-vs-ccc-downsmash-spam.351560/

 

[KingDozie]

Thanks man

 

[SAUS]

So you get more shield stun when you are light shielding. Does hit lag increase as well? I am wondering if I can light shield to make it easier to shield DI to escape some shield pressure.