Offical Yoshi MatchUp Discussion -->

[Ch0zen0ne]

Title Fully Describes the purpose of this fabulous thread.

Unfortunately most of this section of the boards is dedicated to smashers johning about Yoshi "sucking" [lol i'm so funny] or worship of several Yoshi players that have relatively good looking videos that are not against very notable opponents [that wasn't a stab.. just stating fact... i mean.. comeon guys.. we main Yoshi >_>;].

We need to discuss this for several reasons.. to assist Yoshi mainers as what to do in difficult matchups, instead of just saying... ZOMG MK/SNAKE are impossible.. That is silly, and accomplishes nothing.

This will also give us Yoshi mainers a chance to "rate" matchups as well, which will help us all figure out what we must counterpick against.. also... please do not take the words "counterpick" lightly. I do live/play in the Md/Va area with Chudat, Azen, Chillin, Forte, Boss, Candy, G-Reg, and Nacker on a regular basis. I would sincerely like to think they MY Yoshi experiences are worthy of your ears, eyes, and consideration.


At this current point in Brawl I'm quite happy to say that out of many of the characters out there.. Yoshi seems to have ALOT of advanced techs avalible to him that are not to other toons of "similar tier". This makes me [honestly] think that Yoshi can CERTAINLY move up in the up and coming tier lists that are currently being concocted.. but at the end of the day it doesn't matter reguardless b/c even if our dino buddy is lower than he should be, he'll just be underestimated in a tourney match anyway.


I'm sure many of you know that I "ChozenOne" am an ROB main. Not to say that I do not main Yoshi.. i do.. ish. He is my counterpick for MK, ROB, Pika.. ect.

The factor of surprise, and not knowing a matchup is VERY key in the game of smash, and winning.. and if they're not expecting a WD back [thank you crawl], or super armor frames from infinite DJing then clearly you're in the win.. they think G&W has a nasty Bair.. wait till they see Yoshi's ;p

Lets do work.

I suggest we begin starting w/ a matchup that i'm sure alot of you may have trouble w/ [i'm sure i did at first] but Yoshi basically goes even with once you know what to do...

ROB <(^_^)b

 

[DarkLeviathan89]

Let me start off by saying good idea for a thread, I was thinking of making one myself, but I don't have enough experience against a lot of chars or "pro" players. Thank you for starting it off.

Now, ROB is someone I don't play often but he is (or was?) one of my friend's secondaries, and he's pretty good. So I personally like a quick approach right at the getgo so he doesn't have room for his projectiles. His laser reaches insanely far and has good speed, so I like sticking with nairs and bairs. If I remember correctly, his gyro can be cancelled by jabs (or was it bair? sorry I don't remember) so that can help against a spammy ROB. I hesitate to edgeguard him off the edge because of his great recovery and powerful aerials though. Eggs I would use sparingly because of his laser/gyro and how he can reflect with I think his side B.

That's all I can think to say; hope that was helpful (or at least accurate)

 

[xxCANDYxx]

Chozen's Yoshi is too good.

 

[Cliche-Guevara]

Rob isnt too bad for Yoshi in my experience

- Use your superarmor frames in your 2nd jump to get back to the stage safely
- Watchout of sidestep downsmash, as it seems to be Robs go to attack when people are close to him
- Not many of robs attacks are disjointed so spamming Bair should work, be carefull to space them properly so you dont get shield grabbed.
- Unfortunately most Robs that I have seen play very defensively, so watch your approaches and remember that his Dsmash is faster than almost everything yoshi has...

 

[ChaosKnight]

Chozen's Yoshi is too good.

yea if your blind

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

MM?

Generally Yoshi is quite difficult to gimp as long as you still have your 2nd jump [i mean.. obviously]. DJADing [doublejumpairdodge] makes Yoshi pretty much invincible, and you're not too much in trouble against of his gayness unless you get smacked by a gyro/lazer on your return trip/hit lag.

The real reason that Yoshi goes pretty even w/ ROB is that...

- Both Characters Live a LONG TIME

This can be a blessing and a curse.. if the ROB players campy, you can just ledge stall egg throw [some Fumi sh*t don't hate].. if they're getting in your face... EVEN BETTER. Bair-->DJ'd-->Uair/Nair.. is a godsend.. Yoshi combo's the SH*T OUT OF ROB so the higher his % goes up, the easier it is going to be to hit those tasty Nairs.. the lower the %.. you're going to be looking for more Utilt-->SH Dair/Utilt-->Utilt-->Uair-->Uair, ect. Also, please keep in mind that when an ROB gets desperate for a kill, they will attempt to charge their gyro [b/c a fully charged gryo is about the smash as a fully charged Fsmash wtf]. Just shield if they throw it.. IT WILL GO AWAY. Problem solved >_>; Fully charged lazers are less of an issue, unless you're already off the stage about to die.. they will kill you.. if you're on the stage, you shouldn't be too worried about them b/c it's not that much damage, and if the ROB tries to Uair to get some extra damage in.. you may be able to DownB kill him off the top LOOL.

- Yoshi's Eggs actually have less startup lag then ROB's lazer/gyro [unless ROB is charging his gyro, and then releases it, instead of saving it for later] so he can effectivly Egg-->SS/Shield/ect.

This isn't really that much of a big deal unless you're living in the midwest where OverSwarm resides lol.

- Both Characters have a difficult time killing

Yoshi's arsenal--> Uair, Fsmash, Jab-->Dsmash (@ 160 wtf), Usmash, Nair(@ 180 wth)
ROB's arsenal--> Usmash, Nair, Bair [if you get hit by this you're an idiot], Fsmash, Dsmash [@ 150 wtf], Ftilt [don't ask], Charged Gryo, Lazer

Yoshi, and ROB are [unfortunately] not very light, so you can't rely on those 80% Uairs [like on MK lol], and 90% running Usmashes.. then again... ROB also can't rely on 100% Nairs, or Fsmash Kills @ 130... The 1UP on ROB that Yoshi has on killing [though it is generally more difficult for Yoshi to kill ROB due to ROB needing to be @ a higher % to die] is that MANY of Yoshi's moves lead to Kill Moves..

Dair-->Uair
Jab-->Dsmash
Dthrow-->[Wait for airdodge LOL]-->Uair
NeutralB-->Uair/Usmash/Nair
Bair-->Uair
SH Dair-->Reverse Fsmash

ROB has......

Jab-->Fsmash
Utilt-->Nair?

FAILURE!

- ROB's Dsmash doesn't go through Yoshi's shield

This is EXTREMELY important.. The ability to shield after an ROB SS's-->Dsmash and NOT BE PUNISHED ZOMG ORLY???!!! YSRLY~~!!! =0

Also.. Yoshi is will be pushed away which will [many a' time] allow you to follow up your shielding w/ a grab/NeutralB [more unlikely], or AN FSMASH! yey for YOSHI! so basically yoshi can punish ROB for using his normal nubbie tactics ^_^

- Both Toons have blind spots that each can take advantage of VERY EASILY

In front of Yoshi [in the air].. Behind/Below ROB [in the air].

ROB's Fair is amazing, and should be treated as a deadly weapon.. it is silly stupid, and can also merit Ken Combos if you are incredible like ChozenOne. If you're going to approach, or he is approaching you.. TURN the F*CK AROUND.. easy for YOU to avoid.. SH Bairs.. SH Dairs.. if you're going @ ROB w/ Fairs... you should probably just put down your controller, and tell the tourney organizer that you just lost.. b/c either way it will have the same effect.

ROB's Blindspot is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to capitalize on.. SH Bair-->Utilt [wow you've already got it]-->Utilt-->[wait for the airdodge]-->Utilt-->Uair-->Uair-->[wait for the airdodge]-->Dair..

Grats.. ROB can literally do NOTHING, and you just did roughly 90-110%...

Why is Yoshi amazing?

Did i mention you can finish that w/ another Uair after the Dair ends [if you FF it]. WTF

I'm sure there is ALOT more that i'm forgetting, but seeing as this is clearly more important then Sunday Brunch we should be ok for now..

Good Day Sirs.

 

[Deleted member]

I have lots of trouble with Rob, dont know why. His projectiles are very hard to get by, and a campy rob can be trouble, mostly on places like FD where ur eggs cant hit him if he sits at the edge of the stage and spams lasers. His glide toss-> jab/fsmash/grab allows him to approach u and as far as i know, u cant do anything about it. Your main advantage will be the ability to **** him from below. But Chozen pretty much covered everything i could want to know about to know about the matchup, so im happy and now im gonna go beat some robs.

Sheilding the dsmash is win tho.

 

[Magus-Cie]

btw, if you DI up, starting at the begining of ROBs downsmash, the final hit that sends you flying wont connect, and you can punish.

 

[Eddosan]

btw, if you DI up, starting at the begining of ROBs downsmash, the final hit that sends you flying wont connect, and you can punish.

Doesn't that also work against Pika's D-smash? I've escaped the last hit a couple of times. Though I think it might be only in the low %'s.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

Actually.. that only works if the ROB player is either slow or stupid... you CAN trick pros, i'm its the best option.. but more often then not, you'll get get caught in another Dmash, and take more damage then before had you just sucked it up and flew to the UpperRight Corner of the ROB..

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Edgeguarding ROB with Yoshi isn't as hard as many make it seem. Though I don't know how ROB works. If he's anything like Pit though, you can always use your Dair as soon as ROB is sent off the stage and uses his Up+B recovery. That may make him lag fall to his death. Then again, he could always Uair with perfect timing to counter your Dair. Not sure how ROB works, for I don't play against experienced ROB's often.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

That also won't work.. Pit and ROB's recovery are basically in a totally different tier of goodness..

ROB has the BEST recovery in the game. Pit's recovery is "good" but the only reason it really shines is b/c his glide can take him below stages, and his glide attack has ******** damage/knockback/priority...

-if you need to edgeguard ROB throw eggs, and jump below the ROB [if he's stalling on the ledge] and do a DJ rising Nair.. more often then not, you will stage spike the ROB... they won't die but they'll learn their lesson and stop playing games...

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Well, if you Dair ROB during his Up+B, can he continue using it after you Dair him? I know this technique works against some specific characters. Such as Lucario, Pit (During Up+B), Ivysaur, Olimar (varying on how many Pikmin he has, and how many you kill using your Dair), Peach, DK, and ocassionally Ness and Lucas. Always Ness and Lucas during there Up+B.

You just Dair them after there 2nd jump, when they attempt to grab the ledge, or as soon as they grab the ledge. As soon as using your Dair in these circumstances, you use your DJ to grab and hold the ledge so that they can't obtain it. They're usually down to far to get the ledge, so they use there Up+B and rely on lag to grab the ledge, but they aren't able to because you're there holding/hogging it.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

ROB's UpB lasts for 3 seconds.. if it is interrupted... he still has the rest.... too good >_>;

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

That's what I thought. That's why the Yoshi edgeguard doesn't work well then. I guess the best way to edge guard ROB is to go for an areal F-Smash (Spike). Though, that's not even guaranteed to work because of ROB's good recovery and escapable lag. Varying on how good the Spike was anyway. The best would be to just Egg Toss and try KO'ing him with a closely ranged Smash Attack, or by using a Special Attack at a high percent.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

Pivot Fsmash is too good [/worships samuripanda]

no johns.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

One of the matchups I hate with a passion though, is the Snake matchup. Most annoying matchup for Yoshi. Ever.

 

[ChuDat]

This will also give us Yoshi mainers a chance to "rate" matchups as well, which will help us all figure out what we must counterpick against.. also... please do not take the words "counterpick" lightly. I do live/play in the Md/Va area with Chudat, Azen, Chillin, Forte, Boss, Candy, G-Reg, and Nacker on a regular basis. I would sincerely like to think they MY Yoshi experiences are worthy of your ears, eyes, and consideration.

Wtf are you talking about. stop lying fool haha

 

[DarkLeviathan89]

One of the matchups I hate with a passion though, is the Snake matchup. Most annoying matchup for Yoshi. Ever.

IMO, Meta Knight and Zelda are both worse matchups for Yoshi than Snake.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

IMO, Meta Knight and Zelda are both worse matchups for Yoshi than Snake.

I actually don't struggle against Zelda at all. Snake and Metaknight are the two I struggle with the most. I mean, I still struggle against Zelda, but I manage my way out of it. Unlike Snake and Metaknight where I always lose. I don't think I've ever beaten a Human Player Snake outside of a random match on WiFi that is. I'm about 50% Wins and Losses against Metaknight, but still one of the most horrible matchups in the game for me. Zelda, I struggle against, but I don't lose often to Zelda. I usually manage my way to a victory. Despite how close it may be.

 

[DarkLeviathan89]

I actually don't struggle against Zelda at all. Snake and Metaknight are the two I struggle with the most. I mean, I still struggle against Zelda, but I manage my way out of it. Unlike Snake and Metaknight where I always lose. I don't think I've ever beaten a Human Player Snake outside of a random match on WiFi that is. I'm about 50% Wins and Losses against Metaknight, but still one of the most horrible matchups in the game for me. Zelda, I struggle against, but I don't lose often to Zelda. I usually manage my way to a victory. Despite how close it may be.

I don't know, I never feel like Snake is too bad of a match. Eggs can help when Snake is camping with grenades, he's pretty easy to combo, and pivot grabs really help against mortar sliding. Yoshi's weight also help him withstand some of Snake's powerful attacks, like the tilts and aerials. I don't think it's too one sided either way.

On the other hand I hate fighting Zelda with a passion. Her forward and up smashes seem to have ridiculous priority, she can reflect eggs and outcamp you with Din's Fire, and I'm afraid to up air her because her down air spikes. It's really hard to approach Zelda since she outprioritizes Yoshi on the ground and in the air.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

Wtf are you talking about. stop lying fool haha

lmao.. good sh*t Chu ;p

 

[!Boom!]

I have found many difficulties when playing against R.O.B. First of all, his edge-guarding "out-*****" yours. If you try to edge-guard him, he can easily counter with his quicker moves, which have more range than your aerials.

Moves you should be aware of are his projectiles (since he can camp you), most of his aerials (least threatening aerial is his uair), and his downsmash.

He is a big target and he also is better than you in close combat. It is hard to approach him because of his long spot dodge and his big range Dsmash. But Yoshi is very good when he is below R.O.B. Your main goal with R.O.B. is to get him into the air and use your u-air. Take advantage of his weight and size and use combos.

Take advantage of his lack of killing moves. Although it takes him a long time to recover, take him out of his recovery. Remember, he cannot airdodge after his upB, PUNISH HIM. But you must be patient, since this match will take a while. Both of you take a long time to kill, so dont rush things.

Take note of your spacing at all times (if you have mastered that dragonic reverse, kudos to you, it'll help). Dont just rush into him. Be patient. He isnt a very good camper. Let him come to you. MAIN THING: RECOVERY. Play smart. Ive played many smart R.O.B.'s. Do not just immediately try to hit R.O.B when he is recovering when he HASNT used his upB recovery yet. Use eggs to inflict damage into him first. When he does use his upB, try to use your superarmor during your DJ to hit him since he cannot use his air dodge.

Difficulty Rating: 8/10

If you cant trust me just because I havent posted a lot, then dont. I rather just read than post. I have experience in many tournaments. I have even won some with Yoshi and gotten into the top 4 (although they were not really big tournaments - 30 or more participants). You may not even believe me about that stuff, but Im just trying to help.

 

[Gindler]

Snake isn't hard at all, when he's recovering he is begging to get spiked.

ROB on the other hand, he can actually somewhat maneuver when he's using his upB, and for some reason spikes don't work as good on ROB as they do on snake (weight? falling speed? idk?)

Metaknight is a pain when he tornadoes alot, once you get sucked in that thing tears yoshi apart. Although Uair kills at around 90 so that really helps (dthrow to Uair is too good)

Zelda, if I know my opponent seconds zelda and I just beat his main with yoshi you better believe I'm putting Ness or one of my other secondaries in cause I hate fighting zelda with yoshi (for some reason her Fair and Bair hit yoshi almost as easily as they hit boswer, and that Usmash has ridiculous range priority and power)

I think mario's pretty bad too cause you can't spike or edgeguard at all for that matter if he capes well.

Other than that though most characters don't give me a problem unless the other player is better than me (not as rare as I would like =p)

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

On a 1-10 i'd have to give ROB either a 7 or 8/10.. he is tough but not unwinnable


Who's for discussing Snake next?

 

[Gindler]

I'd give ROB a 6/10
Snake a 5/10
Zelda a 9.9/10

 

[Deleted member]

Snake next is a good idea. ID give rob an 8/10. I dont understand how snake would be 5/10, u cant spike him if he recovers high, which he should be doing unless u spiked him in the first place. His tilts eat you alive. You can combo him, but its gonna be hard to land your bairs with grenade dropping.


Also Zelda isnt hard imo.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

I also don't find Zelda THAT hard, but she can be tough if you don't know the matchup..

Snake is more like a 7/10 imo b/c he can't really camp you, when you are reverse egging him ;p

 

[Kiwikomix]

What's your opinion on Yoshi vs Wario?
I've been arguing it in Yoshi's favor, but disregarding the infinite grab, what's the status on this matchup?

 

[bigman40]

I think it's even. I find that Wario's aerial speed to move forward and backward quickly is reall annoying to actually force a hit while he's in the air. Their range is about the same, somewhat towards yoshi though. Their power is even, and their ground game favors yoshi more.

So ya, keeping a Wario grounded will put it in Yoshi's favor, but that'll be rare, so even for my thoughts.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I thought that Yoshi was faster than Wario in the air, and I'm pretty sure he outranges and outprioritizes him too...
As far as I could see, Yoshi's main problems in the matchup are that he'll have trouble landing a KO move and Wario can pressure Yoshi pretty badly because of his shield problems...
Thoughts?

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi is faster, but changing momentum quickly is in Wario favor. I barely get this matchup so I don't have much helpful info to give.

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshis bad shield usually isnt too much of a problem, but wario makes u wish u had a normal shield. The good thing is his dair cant shield stab tho. Lots of pivot grabs here, and retreating bairs work well also. I need to play futile and report on how badly i lose =P

 

[Deleted member]

Guys this thread should be organized, not just everybody asking opinions on different matchups. I propose the next matchup we do to be snake or wario, since both are popular discussions, and that we only focus on one at a time.

 

[bigman40]

I say we do Snake. I'm not gonna post my opinions yet, but I want to hear other people's thoughts first. Also, it'll probably be good to rate the matchup out of 10 (maybe not....just a thought).