Responding to posts while being on topic is not against the rules. If you really have a problem with three of my posts being adjacent to each other, why don't you just report me and get it over with instead of nit picking in this manner and hijacking the thread.
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Observations vs Several Characters (A King Dedede Diary)
- Thread starter Quondulen
- Start date
I agree. They have essentially shut down the forums for a day and halted most discussion.
EDIT: I'm conceding the issue about multiple posts. I want this thread to continue with it's intelligent discussion and not be drug down into the mud due to bickering. I will no longer respond with multiple postings and will consolidate responses into fewer posts. Now that the issue is out of the way, lets get back to the discussion at hand and help each other expand our games.
I've added a video to the opening post of one of the battles I have had against ZSS.
lain
Smash Master
Don't fall for dair tricksies. They love that ****. Your bair blocks their Auraball (which isn't something too useful to know). Ftilt advance is a good idea (as well as for anyone else). Don't get too impatient.
You CAN chaingrab them, but you have to do it perfectly or near perfectly. Start the run as early as you can, grab when the time's right. Practice practice practice.
General rule I go by for chaingrabbing: If you chaingrab a Pit, you can chaingrab anybody. This is because Pit moves away the furthest from dthrow.
You can gimp falco with repeated bairs, or bair-> fairs, or repeated fairs even. Your ftilt is farther then his shine so don't worry. If they ever ledgehop an illusion or simply illusion onto the stage, you can use utilt to hit them out of it (or time a bair).
Sorry I don't have too much advice, this game is still quite new. More to come later though.
LOL they switched around Falco and Captain Falcon for april fools. very subtle... very subtle...
really_calm
Smash Journeyman
That's definitely very useful advice against falco.
Any advice against pikachu? From the few matches I've watched online and player, it doesn't seem like a very good match up for DDD because pikachu's attacks are all faster than DDD's and he's a small little bugger (small target).
I've found that you can advance with f-tilt to cancel out his spamming B projectiles and eventually just make him eat hammer.
What a coincidence. I've just added a Pikachu section to the opening post. The Pika matchup is not an easy one I'm afraid. Any fast character, especially a small fast character, feels like an up hill battle for DDD.
Videos are on the way for each of the listed match ups. Youtube is taking forever to upload them.
CO18
Smash Hero
Im not bickering. Its just in the rules^ they are there to read....
Im trying to help u out so u dont get ban points from mods looking at the thread but instead you take it as me attack you. Well im glad its out of the way.
Anyway the pikachu matchup sucks. Its mentally retarted.....
All he has to do is dair-->dsmash--> down b.
I dropped from 7th to 12th on SBR alone from today and all my losses were against pika spammers.
Do NOT roll around him otherwise you WILL be downsmashed.
Dont go in the air unless you know ull hit him because da fat penguin cant dodge his thunder.
The easiest way to beat pika is by camping which is extremely boring but its effective.
Approaching with Ftitls only helps to an extent because you have to be really on point with each tilt
Seriously the best way to beat him is play defesnively and shield grab all his attacks, throw him off the stage and edgeguard **** him as much as you can.
Anyway this goes under top 3 worst matchups for Dedede, along with Olimar.
lain
Smash Master
I play with Anther like... a lot. So I've gotten a lot of experience in this matchup >.< unfortunately I play him a lot.
If you're aggressive against a smart pikachu (so far, only Anther's pika beats mine), they're going to easily out-maneuver you and ****. You have to be smart with a lot of things. They key here is... SERIOUSLY... don't get impatient!
They're going to stand in their shield and wait for you to make a mistake by hitting it or just in general misspacing, because it is REALLY easy to misspace against a pika. Stand your distance, ftilt them, throw waddles. If they attack you and your shielding, they can attack you faster then any other move in your arsenal can come out (even grabbing), so always wait for that second attack and make your move.
A thing that everyone I've ever played has fallen for is if you hit someone with a 1-2 jab, and then proceed to the third constant jab, they don't move out of it for a while... netting a lot of damage. Then afterwards, leaving it out, people ALWAYS run into it. It's funny, but also a good defense. A lot of moves with huge priority (luigi's nair) will still get hit by this, leaving you to then let go while they are in the air and do whatever. Moves with disjointed hitboxes (Ness's moves, Lucario's, Marth's) will clang with the hammer and Dedede will be lag free.
Player tendencies taken into account, after ftilting someone, they'll simply have to jump. And they're either going to jump on top of you or away. If towards, utilt. If away, waddle them. They have to, there's no other way to punish ftilt (maybe a few, but I can't think of any). Just an observation of how good ftilt can control space.
If you're aggressive against a smart pikachu (so far, only Anther's pika beats mine), they're going to easily out-maneuver you and ****. You have to be smart with a lot of things. They key here is... SERIOUSLY... don't get impatient!
They're going to stand in their shield and wait for you to make a mistake by hitting it or just in general misspacing, because it is REALLY easy to misspace against a pika. Stand your distance, ftilt them, throw waddles. If they attack you and your shielding, they can attack you faster then any other move in your arsenal can come out (even grabbing), so always wait for that second attack and make your move.
A thing that everyone I've ever played has fallen for is if you hit someone with a 1-2 jab, and then proceed to the third constant jab, they don't move out of it for a while... netting a lot of damage. Then afterwards, leaving it out, people ALWAYS run into it. It's funny, but also a good defense. A lot of moves with huge priority (luigi's nair) will still get hit by this, leaving you to then let go while they are in the air and do whatever. Moves with disjointed hitboxes (Ness's moves, Lucario's, Marth's) will clang with the hammer and Dedede will be lag free.
Player tendencies taken into account, after ftilting someone, they'll simply have to jump. And they're either going to jump on top of you or away. If towards, utilt. If away, waddle them. They have to, there's no other way to punish ftilt (maybe a few, but I can't think of any). Just an observation of how good ftilt can control space.
I agree with everything you say here. The Pikachu matchup is very campy and Pika's moveset is quick and spamable. Very challenging for the larger and slower DDD.
Pika's Neutral B, Down B, and C-Stick Smashes are hard to contend with but it is winable. I've started having success with using Down Tilt to force a stalemate vs Pika's Neutral B spam and using my jab routine to smack them when they apporach. I got about 50% out of my jab routine once. It seems like Pika might have trouble getting out of it due to the hammer covering his whole body.
It looks like we have been having the same experiences. As I mentioned, Ive been having success with my jab routine. My opponent just seems to walk into it and have a hard time getting out of it.lain said:
really_calm
Smash Journeyman
oh yeah definitely on the ftilt
I've seen some people try to punish it by rolling, but just dsmash if you they try that.
I've seen some people try to punish it by rolling, but just dsmash if you they try that.
really_calm
Smash Journeyman
So are the top 3 worst match ups GW, Olimar, and Pikachu?
What about diddy, falco, MK and toon link?
Just trying to figure out which we should be discussing more heavily than others.
What about diddy, falco, MK and toon link?
Just trying to figure out which we should be discussing more heavily than others.
From personal experience, Sheik, Sonic, Pikachu, and Olimar all give DDD problems. Each match is winnable but they feel like they are an uphill battle. Timing and spacing are really important.
I've added two Sonic videos to the opening post.
CO18
Smash Hero
Game and Watch is hard because of his bairs but i tend to have pretty good success against him.
Falco and Mk > Game and watch against dedede imo.
Falco can chaingrab you from 0-50 and u cant do crap about it and then once u get to 50 he can just dash attack and upsmash right after for like an instant 80 percent damage and your hopeless. Make sure you tech land everything against falco or youll get laserlocked.
His Fsmash has uber range and is strong and quick to boot. My best friend mains him.
Just play really aggressively and throw him off the edge and edgeguard.
Diddy matchup.. i dont even remember havent played one in awhile but my friend use to main him and i played him everyday(pretty sure i have this matchup in the guide).
Uhh.. i just answered about MK and toon link to some guy asking on the guide if u need any help with that lol. Im gonna update it soon.... just been busy, ive got alot pretty good strats against most characters now cuz i play really good people on SBR alot and they all use a variety of characters.. But ill go more in detail......
Game and watches bair isnt as deadly as people think cuz u can just roll around him and grab him from there. If i had to pick, Top 3 worst matchups would be.
1. Olimar
2. Pikachu
3. Metaknigt (this is only against good Mk players though, thats when it becomes extremmely hard. Its still hard to beat olimar and pikachu even if a noob spammer is using them so if u havent played any good Mk's yet u may disagree with this.)
PinkPwnageFrenzy
Smash Journeyman
Another small tidbit I found is that Dtilt is like, the only attack that will knock Meta Knight out of his B moves.
FlashGearz
Smash Apprentice
diwb throw>forawrd air, combo is nice, but Forward throw, back air forward air seems more usfull, because it sends them farther, and back air sets up for forward air kills. NUtral air nees someone as tall as or taller then Dedede to hit and auto cancel. I think forward air has the same height requirement
Nicktendo
Smash Ace
forward tilt stops pikmin toss and olimars forward smash/down smash (equal priority) but its quicker and if they try to approach dtilt stops
AuraHammer
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2008
- Messages
- 24
If possibe can you put in more tips against pikachu. I hate that little tiny rodent. My brother says I suck with King DeDeDe because he wins more against me when he uses that rat. 
Im going insane because I really liked Pikachu and now I hate him with a burning passion.
Im going insane... help.
Im going insane because I really liked Pikachu and now I hate him with a burning passion.
Im going insane... help.
I have some more vids vs Pikachu that I'm going to upload soon. That's the best I can offer for now. I haven't been able to play much over the last couple of weeks to develop my game further.If possibe can you put in more tips against pikachu. I hate that little tiny rodent. My brother says I suck with King DeDeDe because he wins more against me when he uses that rat.
Im going insane because I really liked Pikachu and now I hate him with a burning passion.
Im going insane... help.
Seeing as how my friend mains Pikachu, I'm going to have plenty of time to analyze the matchup further.
Unfortunately, my friends have developed their games to the point where they can really take advantage of DDD's weaknesses. I'm starting to feel like I'll have to switch mains soon to keep up with them.
EDIT: New videos vs Pikachu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS0LhVmWZsU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du9peLoY_5g
aznxk3vi17
Smash Cadet
Any tips versus Snake? Recently Snake players have gotten me more frustrated than I've ever been. Grenade spam --> dash-canceled up-smash makes an approach nearly impossible for me. I can't punish the dash attack, because he goes straight through me, leaving a falling mortar in his path, covering up the only chase path. Not to mention when I do get close, his AAA or forward AA combos are fast, rack up damage, and can KO.
It seems like the only thing I can manage is to somehow get close enough without getting hit to do a chain grab (but grenades halt the chain grab). Also, a smart Snake player recovers high... no chance to gimp. If they recover low, I attempt to grab them and let them fall to their doom by breaking out of the grab, but a smart Snake recovers high and thus, I'm back to chasing them all over the stage.
It seems like the only thing I can manage is to somehow get close enough without getting hit to do a chain grab (but grenades halt the chain grab). Also, a smart Snake player recovers high... no chance to gimp. If they recover low, I attempt to grab them and let them fall to their doom by breaking out of the grab, but a smart Snake recovers high and thus, I'm back to chasing them all over the stage.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
A notice for Ike: Waddle Dees can gimp his side-B recovery with the right timing. It will cause Ike to strike the Waddle and fall to his death.
really_calm
Smash Journeyman
Nice matches quondulen. I commented on the videos on youtube. But I learned the following points against pikachu.
-d-tilt and jab cancels many of pikachu's moves including his electricity
-DDD can shield grab after the first few hits of pikachu's down smash
-do not try to land in front or near pikachu when recovering; he has so many ways to punish DDD for doing this
-be prepared to air dodge against pikachu's aerials when in the air
overall, when using DDD, a defensive style with good spacing seems to be much more effective against pikachu than being aggressive
I thought you could have used more Bairs when pikachu recovered recovered. Also, how does f-tilt work for you? I figure since it out ranges pikachu's moves that it would be worth using.
When I first started this thread I was under the impression that Pikachu couldn't be shield grabbed between his electrical hits. But as I got better at the game I just started doing it reflexively. I was surprised to say the least.
I've almost completely stopped pursuing Bon in the air while off the stage because he is very good at using Pikachu's Up B to get around me. If I go up, he goes down. If I go down, He goes up. Pikachu's double Up B has a lot of range and speed on it. I have faked him out a few times causing him to go in a direction he didn't intend which resulted in a death that really shouldn't have happened.
F-tilt is a good move, but as you observed, it's hard to get close to Pikachu. When I fight against Pikachu I try to use moves with more knock back to keep me out of range of his down and side smashes as well as thunder. I've been caught by those moves after a F-tilt before.
Sometimes I get locked into a strategy mentally and I really have to work on mixing up my game. I need to utilize more neutral airs and up tilts. I also need to work on making F-tilt more useful in this match.
EDIT: New Vids:
Ice Climbers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYfy3o6Ntf4
Sheik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xUUIZi0wBc
EDIT: More new vids:
Ike: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETgAdNLaSxM
Peach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AEwTGNBlTg
lain
Smash Master
I guess I'm back to playing Dedede (only as a secondary though) but I'll stil contribute hahah
People don't react fast enough once they grab a ledge, so a good strategy is to let someone sweetspot, but then IMMEDIATELY run off and do a bair. It stays out for a long time and WILL stage spike someone if they don't react. Don't be too fast obviously.
Just a tidbit off the top of my head....
More later
People don't react fast enough once they grab a ledge, so a good strategy is to let someone sweetspot, but then IMMEDIATELY run off and do a bair. It stays out for a long time and WILL stage spike someone if they don't react. Don't be too fast obviously.
Just a tidbit off the top of my head....
More later
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Hey guys whats up, I've been working on a new tech chase with Dedede. Its simple but ive killed a few times with it. It's Downthrow -> Run forward tech chase -> reverse upsmash charged slightly. This works where when people would roll towards you into a downsmash would work too.
Yeah, it's pretty satisfying when you catch someone behind you with an up smash. The small of DDD's back is the most vulnerable point on his body and my friends really try to take advantage of it. Up smash, down smash, and down B are the only moves that cover that area of DDD's body.
EDIT: On an unrelated note, I did something the other day that might make down B more useful. I had Pikachu off the stage and he grabed the edge. I started charging a F-smash but my friend saw it coming and just held onto the edge until my smash timed out. When my F-smash ended he climbed up expecting to hit me but I immediately hit down B after my F-smash ended. It nailed him and I got the kill. It was awesome. I really wish I had that one on video to demonstrate.
Just keep that in mind guys. If someone telegraphs your F-smash, immediately unleash a down B as they charge in expecting to punish your F-smash.
Nicktendo
Smash Ace
Olimar:
- If pikmin are latched on you from his side b up tilt will instantly kill all attached to you.
All of his other moves dont seem to be able to knock them off well at all, or as quickly as one up tilt does it.
- Ftilt will stop thrown pikmin from side b (cept yellows) when thrown from the ground, and cancel out olimars forward and down smash. Its good vs olimar to poke him with ftilt alot
- If pikmin are latched on you from his side b up tilt will instantly kill all attached to you.
All of his other moves dont seem to be able to knock them off well at all, or as quickly as one up tilt does it.
- Ftilt will stop thrown pikmin from side b (cept yellows) when thrown from the ground, and cancel out olimars forward and down smash. Its good vs olimar to poke him with ftilt alot
Two new videos:
Ike #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROIuJspnqwE
Ice Climbers #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1feCOUbwJ0
Ike #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROIuJspnqwE
Ice Climbers #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1feCOUbwJ0
Browny
Smash Hater
Sonic cant be chain grabbed just fyi, all he has to do is up b and it gets out of it every time. if you manage to CG a sonic user, they obviously arent very good at the game.
you might also want to note, Sonic can u-air dedede at the top of dedede's up -b, sending him to a very early death. if you want to avoid that youre going to have to use your up-b beneath the stage.
you might also want to note, Sonic can u-air dedede at the top of dedede's up -b, sending him to a very early death. if you want to avoid that youre going to have to use your up-b beneath the stage.
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
I believe you can Chaingrab Sonic if you use Grab -> Downthrow -> shield dash cancel -> grab.
I could be wrong though.
CryoStasis
Smash Rookie
Hey guys i was wondering if you had any tips on dealing wit falco?
I can take care of pikas thanks to my training partner maining him =)
but falcos are by far my worst matchup
can ya help me?
I can take care of pikas thanks to my training partner maining him =)
but falcos are by far my worst matchup
can ya help me?
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Anyone who attacks under D3 will interrupt the up-B if I'm not mistaken.
Desruprot
Smash Lord
any good videos vs. Pit? afterall I have been having some trouble against him...
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Powershield lasersHey guys i was wondering if you had any tips on dealing wit falco?
I can take care of pikas thanks to my training partner maining him =)
but falcos are by far my worst matchup
can ya help me?
also Downthrow tech chases work too.
Theres a few other things you can do but I'll let you figure that stuff out on your own : P
Also my above comment about Chaingrabbing sonic appears to be false, you can't Chaingrab Sonic.
I might be able to talk my friend into playing Pit for some videos. He's pretty rusty with that character though.
Yes, it's a travesty. He's so vulnerable when his jump is coming down, it's almost not fair lol. It's practically worthless when used as an offensive threat.Meta_Sonic64 said:
EDIT: New vids vs Zelda/Sheik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1_U4h_0B2o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwm-WIzzjag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjuAYBLhcw4
EDIT: New vids
vs Bowser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scl38w9j_d8
vs Lucario: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTeW0JUNjLY
New Vids:
vs Zelda/Sheik:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Un2omCPzM
vs Pikachu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25kkOBKK5Sc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn17uc19Nmc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hluLzarN-64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gemGyzUAIyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvlKTadSD1Q
vs Ice Climbers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtOY3r3OF4
vs Zelda/Sheik:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Un2omCPzM
vs Pikachu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25kkOBKK5Sc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn17uc19Nmc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hluLzarN-64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gemGyzUAIyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvlKTadSD1Q
vs Ice Climbers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtOY3r3OF4
Crizthakidd
Smash Champion
i use dsmash alll the time. and the matches i find myself not using it i punish a roll and kill at 130%
i like how u incorpertae dtilt. thats the only thing i need to use more often
i like how u incorpertae dtilt. thats the only thing i need to use more often