Non SHed FF L cancels

[Waverider900]

I'm really bad at them. Not that they come up that often, but occasionally I do a fullhop -> knee -> fast fall, and I'm so programmed to l cancel with shffl timing that I can't l cancel my fullhop moves. Is there a strategy to get over this, other than just the obvious (repetition)?

On another note, how do you practice l canceling moves against shields (without mods)?

 

[Alulim]

Not sure about practicing L cancel vs shields when you don't have mods.

Honestly, there isn't a strategy to it besides practicing. It literally took me months to become consistent at SHFFLing. Just remember some key facts that might assist you (it still ultimately comes down to grueling practice).

Short hopping is determined by how long you hold the button in for, not how lightly or hard you tap the button. This is why many op to 'slide' their thumb off the Y/X button or hit it hard and quickly move to A/The C Stick (This is what I do).

L canceling should occur JUST before you hit the ground. I don't really know how to explain it since its just something that comes naturally - Though I've found that practicing with the spacies first really helps because the time that lag eclipses earlier/later is very noticeable if you perform a shine as soon as possible. You'll definitely notice a difference if you do Dair -> Shine with Falco and Dair (With L Cancel) -> Shine with Falco.

 

[tauKhan]

Practice pressing l cancel when you see you are going to land. It should be independent of other actions, not just as a muscle memory related to sh or ff. Over time you'll learn to do it automatically on visual cue. Do all sorts of jump heights and mix ff timings while practicing.

Shield hitlag is always exactly same as normal hitlag for the attacker, so I suggest practicing l canceling against 9 handicap bowser with 0.5 damage ratio and 1 handicap on yourself

 

[Waverider900]

Not sure about practicing L cancel vs shields when you don't have mods.

Honestly, there isn't a strategy to it besides practicing. It literally took me months to become consistent at SHFFLing. Just remember some key facts that might assist you (it still ultimately comes down to grueling practice).

Short hopping is determined by how long you hold the button in for, not how lightly or hard you tap the button. This is why many op to 'slide' their thumb off the Y/X button or hit it hard and quickly move to A/The C Stick (This is what I do).

L canceling should occur JUST before you hit the ground. I don't really know how to explain it since its just something that comes naturally - Though I've found that practicing with the spacies first really helps because the time that lag eclipses earlier/later is very noticeable if you perform a shine as soon as possible. You'll definitely notice a difference if you do Dair -> Shine with Falco and Dair (With L Cancel) -> Shine with Falco.

yeah, I already have shffling basically down, I just meant specifically for non short hopped stuff. it also took me months lol but yeah I agree it's definitely quite noticeable once you got it

 

[Waverider900]

Practice pressing l cancel when you see you are going to land. It should be independent of other actions, not just as a muscle memory related to sh or ff. Over time you'll learn to do it automatically on visual cue. Do all sorts of jump heights and mix ff timings while practicing.

Shield hitlag is always exactly same as normal hitlag for the attacker, so I suggest practicing l canceling against 9 handicap bowser with 0.5 damage ratio and 1 handicap on yourself

okay yeah I was thinking about that first part. and I'll try the thing with Bowser, I think I've heard that mentioned before. Thanks!

 

[Nicco]

There is only one way
practice practice practice practice
the forums wont do you any good bro

if that was the case I'd be PMing Dark all the time in order to get a swaggy fox like his

 

[tauKhan]

I would like to add that to improve consistency quickly when you practice tech skill, it's important to really concentrate on the tech you are practicing. It's also equally important to practice to do the techs correctly. When I started tech practicing in 2006, I just learned to shffl as a single action on muscle memory, and didn't take hitlag into account. In 2010 I started to actually pay attention to my consistency, and noticed that I would very often miss techs, when I did aerials with different ff timings, or when hitting shields. Another example in my case is wding. I practiced it pretty mindlessly just spamming it over and over again, like wding across the stage, and my consistency rate never became over 80%. I had even created a muscle memory such that if I tried 4 wds back to back, the 4th one would always be a badly angled airdodge instead of wd. So my advice is concentrate when practicing and if you do mistakes, acknowledge them and don't let them develop into habits.

@ N Nicco I am not sure why I want to nitpick here, but perhaps it's because you have tried to very accurately describe the combo in your sig, but it's slightly off.
The first jab in that hax combo is turnaround jab, not pivot jab. Turnaround jabs are still impressive though. and the 2 grab is jc grab not pivot grab. He probably does option select the pivot grab with jump such that if he is frame perfect, the jump input will come on the 1st frame of turnaround, and will not happen, and then grab on the next frame. If he misses the pivot grab timing, he will jc grab instead, which is almost always as good.

 

[Nicco]

@ N Nicco I am not sure why I want to nitpick here, but perhaps it's because you have tried to very accurately describe the combo in your sig, but it's slightly off.
The first jab in that hax combo is turnaround jab, not pivot jab. Turnaround jabs are still impressive though. and the 2 grab is jc grab not pivot grab. He probably does option select the pivot grab with jump such that if he is frame perfect, the jump input will come on the 1st frame of turnaround, and will not happen, and then grab on the next frame. If he misses the pivot grab timing, he will jc grab instead, which is almost always as good.

You're right about the grab, but pivot and turnaround is the same thing. The inputs are the same regardless if you're doing it from standing or from a dash. Flick stick > a

 

[tauKhan]

You're right about the grab, but pivot and turnaround is the same thing. The inputs are the same regardless if you're doing it from standing or from a dash. Flick stick > a

Well you can argue that, but I think it's much better to have a different term for doing pivot from dash, because you have to be frameperfect there and it's much harder. You can do two types of turnarounds: hold buffer/ slight input or smash input turnaround. When you dash you can't do the former, and that's why it's much harder to do pivot ftilt than turnaround ftilt. From that l-cancel position, you don't have to flick the stick, although to get the jab you need to release it, but it's still easier than pivoting. You can hold slightly to the side, and release it. The jab is then easier to get, as it takes less time for the control stick to reset, and you also have no risk of dashing.

Also by your logic you should call the ftilt a pivot ftilt.

I learned the techs in like 2005/2006 and at least then pivots were different from turnaround tilts. http://smashboards.com/threads/wave...the-terms-read-first-update-12-23-2007.42749/

Edit: I think there is only one actual turnaround animation (excluding the run turnaround). But how and where you do it actually affects how it functions. For example, if you jump during hold or slight input turnaround, your character won't be turned around when he jumps. But if you smash turnaround and next frame jump, your char will be turned around. You can easily test this in slow motion or using pause. This messed up a lot of my turnaround grabs, because I used to jc every grab. If you buffer a turnaround out of dash by holding slightly back when you dash, you cannot attack for a few frames of turnaround. But if you do a turnaround from stand, you can always turnaround utilt/ftilt/dtilt/jab immediately.

 

[Nicco]

I didn't understand that last part at all

I don't know why you care so much about my signature...

but maybe u can explain something to me

sometimes when I try to pivot into an instant bair (using A, not c-stick) I do a pivot ftilt instead

it'd be kinda cool if I could figure out what exactly makes me do the ftilt, so I could do it all the time

I think I saw a video of tipman the legendary ganong doing these

it's pretty bada$$

 

[tauKhan]

Let's assume you dash right. You can't jump on the 1st frame of turnaround to the left. Since you don't use c-stick, you want to get your stick to right asap. If you smash turnaround, but on pivot frame don't hold over dash threshold, you won't dash at all, and this happens, because you smash your stick back to right. So I think you are doing pivot stop ftilt, because your jump didn't happen.