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NO Generic Characters in Brawl!

maxpower1227

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
1,443
Ok, first a note: I have not found a thread for this topic already, so if one exists, I apologize.

Now, on to business.

I have noticed a plethora of requests, and even dedicated threads, for every random, generic character you can think of to be included in the Brawl fighting roster. A lot of people seem to think it's a good idea to include characters such as Navi, Tingle, Dry Bones, Koopa Troopa, E. Gadd, Boo, Saria, Pico, Stanley the Bugman, Sandbag (???), Bubbles, and approximate 137 different pokémons. The character index thread completely boggles my mind with its endless list of no-name characters.

This nonsense has seriously got to stop. Smash Bros is a place for Nintendo's elite to duke it out, not a place to parade out every single character who has ever made an appearance in a game. If we start including these characters, not only will balancing the game become absurdly difficult, but the real mascots will become buried in a sea of 500 random characters that many people are going to look at and say "who the hell is THAT?".

So, to clear up some confusion, here is, in my opinion, a list of things that would make a character worthy of a spot in the Smash Bros fighting roster:

1) Having a franchise named after you (Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Fox, etc), or being the franchise's main hero (Samus, Link, etc)

2) Being a particular franchise's resident damsel in distress (Peach, Zelda, etc)

3) Being a main playable character in at least a few game of a franchise (Diddy/Dixie Kong). Being in a Mario Kart game, or being a sidekick in one Paper Mario game does not count

4) Being a mainstay as a franchise's major villain (Ganondorf/Ganon, Bowser, Mewtwo, King DeDeDe, etc). Villains who are not final bosses but who are nonetheless iconic franchise members as second-tier bosses (MetaKnight, Ridley, etc), could also be included, as either playable characters or assist trophies depending on the character. Characters like Mother Brain would stil be out just for the lack of a feasible way to implement them into the game

That should pretty much cover it. Any other character like a lower minion (goomba, koopa troopa, kremling, what have you) has absolutely no right to be a regular roster member. The only other way to implement a character is as an assist trophy. Since there can't very well be hundreds of those, AT spots should be reserved for long-lasting franchise regulars, particularly for iconic ones like Hammer Bros. or Lakitu from the Mario universe, Klap Trap from DK, Waddle Doo from Kirby, Octorocks, Moblins or maybe even Stalfos from Zelda, etc.




So, that should about conclude my rant for now. If anyone agrees with me in principal and wants to chime in on what makes a character "Smash-worthy" to them, feel free. If anyone who actually wants these generic characters wants to defend their opinions against what I've said here, be my guest. But you'll have a REALLY hard time convincing me that the characters I listed above should be playable in ANY Smash Bros game.
 

maxpower1227

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
1,443
Mii isn't even a character, so no.

And I just thought of a way to greatly simplify the criteria for who should be on the roster. It's a rule that has been mentioned many times by Matt Groening that applies to how you design a cartoon show character that is a member of the main cast rather than a background or bit character:

- If you can't recognize them in silhouette, they do not belong on the roster

I think that is a perfectly valid rule for this case. If a character is not recognizable enough that you could point out their silhouette, then they're not worthy of Smash. (Maybe that means either Roy or Marth should go? =X)
 

skullkidd

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
519
Hmm

I think you should let people do what they want. If they have a character that they think should be in Brawl and they have attempted to support their case, I think that you should respect that. If you disagree with it, that's fine. There is no need to attack all the people that have made threads supporting characters that don't fit your requirements.
 

Grimwolf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
181
Location
New York
NNID
Grimwolff
I recognize Koopa Troopa in silhouette, I guess ur point is pretty moot.
 

Gypsy Lee

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,331
Location
Bethany, West Virginia
I completely agree. :)

With the whole silhouette thing, do you mean like "Who's that Pokemon!?" kinda deal?

Anyways, people are either going to agree with you, or flame you about your comments. I really don't see an in-between here, so brace yourself for a debate.
 

Gypsy Lee

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,331
Location
Bethany, West Virginia
Pichu was only included to beef up the character roster before the game's release, so no. And the whole "generic character" thing shouldn't apply to Pokemon, anyways.

Sorry, I know you didn't ask me.....
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
2,245
Location
Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
Pichu was only included to beef up the character roster before the game's release, so no. And the whole "generic character" thing shouldn't apply to Pokemon, anyways.

Sorry, I know you didn't ask me.....
No worries...

There were special circumstances that led to Pichu's inclusion, yes - but I would argue that his presence proves that Sakurai isn't totally against the inclusion of generic characters as our friend maxpower would lead us to believe.
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
I have noticed a plethora of requests, and even dedicated threads, for every random, generic character you can think of to be included in the Brawl fighting roster. A lot of people seem to think it's a good idea to include characters such as Navi, Tingle, Dry Bones, Koopa Troopa, E. Gadd, Boo, Saria, Pico, Stanley the Bugman, Sandbag (???), Bubbles, and approximate 137 different pokémons. The character index thread completely boggles my mind with its endless list of no-name characters.
Hey! What do you have against Bubbles?? :(

I agree in principle, but Sakurai has already broken your rules with the inclusion of Pichu...
Not to mention ICs and Pit.

Mii isn't even a character, so no.
Yay! *claps*

I don't know about your whole silhouette thing. Most people wouldn't have known Marth even by looking at him normally before Melee. Most people wouldn't recognize Stafy or Golden Sun characters; some may not have recognized Snake or Pit. Does this mean those characters shouldn't get in? I don't think so. To some degree, yes, but not entirely.

I don't think generic characters like Koopa Troopa, Boo, Octorak, etc. should get in, but you've gone off onto throwing in lesser known character of smaller series. Characters like Bubbles, ICs, Pit, Stafy, Balloon Fighter are all Nintendo All-Stars, are the namesake of their series, and are the very opposite of generic character. Yet, based on your reasoning, you don't think these should get in. That I don't get.
 

Gypsy Lee

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,331
Location
Bethany, West Virginia
He wasn't calling Bubbles and Tingle generic characters, grim, he was calling them no name unimportant characters. You just misinterpreted what he said.
 

Inkslinger

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Messages
591
Location
Los Angeles (310)
Ic's, pit, ballon fighter, etc.. are not generic characters and Maxpower will agree. I just don't see how he thinks marth/roy are, sure people outside japan won't know who they are, but that doesn't make them generic and are well recognized in japan.

Also i think of pichu as the luigi of pokemon (well at least he was), she's the secondary of the main character in the series.
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
He wasn't calling Bubbles and Tingle generic characters, grim, he was calling them no name unimportant characters. You just misinterpreted what he said.
No, I realize that. But, he was saying we shouldn't have generic characters, and THEN he went on to say that we shouldn't include characters like that. Generic I'll agree with, but fun and interesting characters like ICs/Pit/Bubbles/BF...those I won't.

Oh, and Tingle really shouldn't be included in there.
 

killbeast301

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
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1,889
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as far away from you as possible
What do you mean "Mii isn't a character"!?
An avatar that you can controll, or fight against can get in. Miis are also NOT generic. They are avatars of customizable appearance that can be stored on the Wii for later use in games that support their use.
 

Got Blood?

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
1,278
I agree with MaxPower,generic characters are a waste of valuable PC slots.Make them assist trophies at the most.And Grim Lizard,I disagree,Miis are awesome.:)
 

maxpower1227

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
1,443
Wow, this really took off. I guess I have a few things to say atm:

1) I agree, the silhouette thing is dumb. I thought of that after I posted it. I was thinking mainly of characters like Kooper from Paper Mario, who would be indistinguishable from a standard koopa Troopa in silhouette (ordinary everyday minions should NEVER be considered for Smash Bros in the first place)

2) Yes, Miis would be absolutely lame, and would seem very out of place, especially given the poor level of detail compared to the rest of the game

3) Ice Climbers, Pit, etc are perfectly acceptable for Smash characters because they represent their franchise (see points 1 and 3 in my first post), even if those franchises only had one game.

As for the rest of these generic characters, they way I see it is this: if all the characters from the Nintendo world gathered to have an ultimate fighting tournament among the great characters, the so-called "generic" or no-name characters belong in the audience, not in the arena.
 

maxpower1227

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
1,443
Hmm

I think you should let people do what they want. If they have a character that they think should be in Brawl and they have attempted to support their case, I think that you should respect that. If you disagree with it, that's fine. There is no need to attack all the people that have made threads supporting characters that don't fit your requirements.
You have a right to suggest no-name characters for Brawl, and I have the right to tell you that those ideas are stupid and would ruin the game. Cést la vie.
 

Vali

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
721
I very much doubt that a Mii moveset would incorperate a knitted cow. That's even more out of place than G+W in his entirety :chuckle:. Turtles still rule supreme I'm afraid Wiseguy, and anything to the contrary will get you a slap on the wrist. Whats your favourite generic character though (apart from Mii :laugh:)? I think Dry Bones has gotta be up there somewhere.
 

skullkidd

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
519
You have a right to suggest no-name characters for Brawl, and I have the right to tell you that those ideas are stupid and would ruin the game. Cést la vie.
Touche. Well I guarantee and hope that they will put in a no-name character by your standards that you won't be happy with. But none of this really matters because what can we do about it anyway.


But I agree with you that Mii's don't belong in SSBB, but they are great for games like Wii Sports
 

Got Blood?

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
1,278
Miis rule,Vali.How can you not want them in?? G&W was a "MEH" character,but custom Wiis are sure to be a smash hit character.Top tier? Probably not,but awesome to play as anyway.
 

spjd

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
175
Location
Denmark
I don't think there should be certain guidelines as to whether a character should be in or not.
If a character is interesting enough and has potential, then I personally think it fits regardless of what.
 

Wiseguy

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada (Proud
I very much doubt that a Mii moveset would incorperate a knitted cow. That's even more out of place than G+W in his entirety :chuckle:. Turtles still rule supreme I'm afraid Wiseguy, and anything to the contrary will get you a slap on the wrist.
I am cow, hear me moo
I weigh twice as much as you
And I look good on the barbecue
Yogurt, curd, cream cheese and butters
Made from liquid from my udders
I am cow, I am cow, hear me moo (moo)

I am cow, eating grass
Methane gas comes out my ***
And out my muzzle when I belch
Oh, the ozone layer is thinner
From the outcome of my dinner
I am cow, I am cow, Ive got gas

I am cow, here I stand
Far and wide upon this land
And I am living everywhere
From b.c. to newfoundland
You can squeeze my teats by hand
I am cow, I am cow, I am cow
I am cow, I am cow, I am cow!

Whats your favourite generic character though (apart from Mii :laugh:)? I think Dry Bones has gotta be up there somewhere.
That's a tough one. I've always felt a kind of sympathy towards Goombas for some reason...
 

skullkidd

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
519
I don't think there should be certain guidelines as to whether a character should be in or not.
If a character is interesting enough and has potential, then I personally think it fits regardless of what.
Amen brothaa
 

freeman123

Smash Lord
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josephf5
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that you put such great detail into a topic about generic characters?

maxpower1227
A lot of people seem to think it's a good idea to include characters such as Navi, Tingle, Dry Bones, Koopa Troopa, E. Gadd, Boo, Saria, Pico, Stanley the Bugman, Sandbag (???), Bubbles, and approximate 137 different pokémons.
Bubbles was the main character in a game.

maxpower1227
4) Being a mainstay as a franchise's major villain (Ganondorf/Ganon, Bowser, Mewtwo, King DeDeDe, etc).
How is Mewtwo a "mainstay" major villain. He's never refered to as a villain in any game, he doesn't do anything to imply that he's a villain, and he doesn't even have any involvement in the plot to any game. He doesn't even appear in most Pokemon games unless you transfer him from one of the older games.

maxpower1227
AT spots should be reserved for long-lasting franchise regulars, particularly for iconic ones like Hammer Bros.
The specically said "You may even see some(assist trophies) that only the most dedicated fans will recognize, so you’ll have to look forward to them.

maxpower1227
Mii isn't even a character, so no.
Neither was Mr. Game & Watch.

skullkidd
There is no need to attack all the people that have made threads supporting characters that don't fit your requirements.
Who is anyone attacking? Are you dumb?

Gypsy Lee
Pichu was only included to beef up the character roster before the game's release, so no.
Why couldn't Koopa Troopa be included for that same reason?

the grim lizard
Not to mention ICs and Pit.
They aren't generic characters.

Gypsy Lee
He wasn't calling Bubbles and Tingle generic characters, grim, he was calling them no name unimportant characters. You just misinterpreted what he said.
His topic title is "NO Generic Characters in Brawl!" And Bubbles is every bit as significant as ICs and Pit.

Inkslinger
Also i think of pichu as the luigi of pokemon (well at least he was), she's the secondary of the main character in the series.
Pichu has no significance to the series once so ever.

maxpower1227
3) Ice Climbers, Pit, etc are perfectly acceptable for Smash characters because they represent their franchise (see points 1 and 3 in my first post), even if those franchises only had one game.
Then what's wrong with Bubbles?
 

maxpower1227

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
1,443
Eh, fine.. Bubbles wasn't really one of the suggestions I had the biggest problem with, but I still fail to see how he'd be as exciting as IC or Pit.

G&W was a "MEH" character,but custom Wiis are sure to be a smash hit character.
Blasphemy.. G&W was a fantastic character. Not only does he represent the very early days of Nintendo, but his unique graphic styl, low framerate, and excellent "voice"sound effect collection made him absolutely hilarious. I will kill someone is G&W is not in Brawl, and I'd be willing to bet money that he returns.
 
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