No advanced tactics? Brawl sucks? You get what you deserve!

[Satan.Loves.Us]

Allow me to drop some logic... may not be well written but it's 2 AM and I'm drunk as hell.

First of all, Nintendo's games have always aimed for one thing above all else: accessibility. Appeal to a broad audience. The Wii obviously was marketed this way; that everyone and their grandmother can play this new revolutionary new system.

You guys at these forums are not a broad audience. Nintendo could have made the game contain two total characters but they knew everyone here would have bought it anyway. What incentive do they have to please this community? Brawl is a great party fighting game, just like Melee was when we were first playing it. No other fighting game allows four players, has stages that aren't just flat boards, and has items. Every attribute on every character is distinct, which already makes this series the deepest fighting game ever.

Now, they went ahead and balanced the characters.They removed wavedashing, l-cancelling, and basically every way people were exploiting the physics engine in the last game. Many have claimed it's less competitive (how you could actually make this argument boggles my mind) because people who devote their lives to getting better at the game now stand less of a chance to beat one who is less seasoned.

How could you not see this coming??

This community is such an elitist group of a-holes. You guys are seriously worse than DOTA--and that's hard to beat. When I started looking at these forums for tips on Melee, all I found was ridiculous insults directed at anyone who asked for advice (generally, the response was "learn to DI noob"). And then there's the back room. How f*cked up a concept is having a back room. God forbid your new findings in the game get out to the public--no, we need a place where only the cool kids can talk about their discoveries. Is there another videogame community that's so elitist it needs the "elites" of the elitist to have their own private chat room so others can't learn what you know about the game?

My point is this: all this disdain garbage that you guys have for every other Smash player is likely the reason why they decided to level out the playing field, because it's in direct contrast to Nintendo's obvious goal of global accessibility. No one is going to want to play this game if they pick it up against someone who chain throws them 0-death with Sheik, laughing and ridiculing them. Nintendo didn't need to please you, they needed to please everyone else.

This community and its ******** back room deserved to have all the exploits taken out of this game with your over the top elitist attitude. Now it's perfect. Go back to Melee, because you will be the only ones playing it.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Now, they went ahead and balanced the characters.

That's strange. That never happened to my copy of Brawl or the ones my friends have...

 

[Senshuu]

PS Dead Horse.

Allow me to drop some logic... may not be well written but it's 2 AM and I'm drunk as hell.

Not a good way to start off a long post, dood. Just convince us otherwise by not saying anything about your state, hmm?

And try saying something that hasn't been said already, please.

 

[shadydentist]

You created an account just to post this?

Just enjoy the game. People who are willing to take this game to its limits will always win in the end. The advent of a new game is merely a temporary setback.

 

[Talgese]

He actually makes a good point and for being drunk it's a good point. People whine that brawl isn't competitive, when in fact its MORE competitive. You're now leveled down to everyone else, you can't beat them just because you know advanved techs, you're fighting using the same arsenal. The competitive field has been widened not decreased, you have more opponents now and they're all JUST as capable as you now.

 

[shadydentist]

Hmm, talgese, let me try to explain something:

You're absolutely right. The competitive field is level, and players with years of experience playing melee cannot transfer most of their skills over to Brawl. However, people will continue to get better at this game. People who spent a lot of time getting better at Melee are actually at a advantage because they already have experience in mastering the mechanics of a game.

Does that make any sense? The level at which a player is considered 'good' is ALWAYS changing, based on the current competitive environment: Which characters are effective, which techniques counter what, and so on. Already, I'm seeing a lot of cool tricks that specific characters are capable of doing.

This is what makes it exciting! You're watching the evolution of a brand new competitive game right from the beginning. Come summer, when the major tournaments start running, we get to see what all these players all over the country have spent the last few months doing. I can't wait until that happens.

 

[Tabris-]

Before anybody comes in slating the OP, his post is actually rather well written and does make some decent points Not like anyone will read this post, but I thought I'd get it out there just in case :3

Also, just to add people who think the game won't be competitive because of a lack of certain advanced techniques, are limiting themselves and the game they play, in both Brawl and Melee. They're the type of workman who blames his tools for his lack of skill. It's not the techniques that makes a good player, it may add a bit more depth to the game, but you actually have to have some semblance of skill to actually use these techniques to a decent level.

The only thing that will make Brawl less competitive is the community dismissing the game as such, and not finding ways to expand their horizons and limiting the game to how they think it should be played after a relatively short time not how it might be played in the future.

That all being said, I couldn't care less. I'm a casual player and none of this will ever affect me. But unlike some people here, I'm always looking on ways to improve the games I'm playing when I get the chance, I don't dismiss anything until I've had a good feel for it, or it is an inherently bad game (which Brawl is not, regardless of which Smash Bros game you prefer).

Edit: The OP's post is quite well written, despite being under the influence. Which is more than I can say for quite a lot of the 'intelligent' posts that I have seen posted on this board by members who were most definitely sober.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

Allow me to drop some logic... may not be well written but it's 2 AM and I'm drunk as hell.
This explains why it was such a bad post

First of all, Nintendo's games have always aimed for one thing above all else: accessibility. Appeal to a broad audience. The Wii obviously was marketed this way; that everyone and their grandmother can play this new revolutionary new system.

You guys at these forums are not a broad audience.
Well, I agree. I don't see little girls and grandmas posting on this forum... So I suppose its like every other gaming forum. However there is a variety of people from the tournament scene, casual scene, and 'I lurk here because I like smash bros" you are simply generalizing this forum based on your own bias.

Nintendo could have made the game contain two total characters but they knew everyonehyperbole much? here would have bought it anyway.
Actually I believe people would not.

What incentive do they have to please this community?
Nerfed chaingrabs, nerfed Fair, nerfed Peach's turnips/smash, kept most of the characters, nerfed Marth's grab ranged, many buffs to low tier characters and nerfs for high tiers. It appears he heard some of our wishes.

Brawl is a great party fighting game, just like Melee was when we were first playing it. No other fighting game allows four players, has stages that aren't just flat boards, and has items
Do Def Jam Vendetta, Urban Reign, Power Stone, and Guilty Gear Isuka count as a 'party fighting game'.

Every attribute on every character is distinct, which already makes this series the deepest fighting game ever. Its distinctiveness is good, but than there's Guilty Gear, which has a great variety of techniques while having depth at the same time.

Now, they went ahead and balanced the characters.
Marth vs Yoshi

They removed wavedashing, l-cancelling, and basically every way people were exploiting the physics engine in the last game.
And they gave us Shield Cancel Grab/Smash, Hugging, No Lag Aerials, RAR as examples of exploits of the game's physics engine. None of these techniques are in the instruction manuals, what are these 'considered' to be in your opinion, glitch or exploit?

Many have claimed it's less competitive (how you could actually make this argument boggles my mind) perhaps you should give us an explanation on why it is more competive.

because people who devote their lives to getting better at the game now stand less of a chance to beat one who is less seasoned. The one who takes the time to practice and discover new things to improve themselves should be the one who is rewarded for their effort..

How could you not see this coming?? Actually I thought all the new mechanics would make the game balanced and more fun, now it appears to be slow and th whole game is 'approach enemy -> get lucky with attack priority -> opponent gets sent off and recovers, thus the cycle repeats.

This community is such an elitist group of a-holes. You guys are seriously worse than DOTA--and that's hard to beat. This group is not as bad as dota Dota is composed of bunch of leavers, whiners, arrogant, racist, hackers 14yrs. I haven't seen any newbie go storming off the tournament scene during a tournament.

When I started looking at these forums for tips on Melee, all I found was ridiculous insults directed at anyone who asked for advice (generally, the response was "learn to DI noob").
Meh, new people are always bashed for asking stuff that are obvious and that are repeatedly asked for.

And then there's the back room. How f*cked up a concept is having a back room. God forbid your new findings in the game get out to the public--no, we need a place where only the cool kids can talk about their discoveries.
Government, School Meetings, Committee Meetings, Game Developers, and Beta Teams keep their stuff secret to remove the interfering 'noise.' I see nothing wrong with a group of more intelligent people discussing on what would improve the metagame of the game.

Is there another videogame community that's so elitist it needs the "elites" of the elitist to have their own private chat room so others can't learn what you know about the game?
lol... Other games have clans and guilds right? I'm pretty sure everyone here knows how to wavedash, L-cancel, dash dance when it was during melee's time.

My point is this: all this disdain garbage that you guys have for every other Smash player is likely the reason why they decided to level out the playing field, because it's in direct contrast to Nintendo's obvious goal of global accessibility. No one is going to want to play this game if they pick it up against someone who chain throws them 0-death with Sheik, laughing and ridiculing them. Nintendo didn't need to please you, they needed to please everyone else.
Sorry? If people want to play for fun, let them. Where did this myth that competitive players don't like having fun with items and screwing around?

This community and its ******** back room deserved to have all the exploits taken out of this game with your over the top elitist attitude. Now it's perfect. Go back to Melee, because you will be the only ones playing it.

There are elitist in other games, yet their games become more deep and please the competitive community. Sakurai pleasing the competitive community by tweaking a few of its current flaws/annoyances such as the ledge grab-lag would not have effected sales of the actual game.

 

[Froilen]

What is DOTA?

 

[Misto-Roboto]

Umm, the main goal of the Smash Back Room is to help evolve tournament rule standards for tournament operators to work from. We save them the hassle of trying to find every kink and problem within the competitive and tournament community. I think you have a very skewed view of the Smash Back Room.

 

[Unexplanetory]

What is DOTA?

The origin of evil.

 

[Noypi_GjD]

What is DOTA?

DoTA is a Warcraft III: Frozen Throne custom game, I believe it is the most popular custom for WCIII and is keeping it alive. Awesome game, in my opinion, love the unique heroes and the teamwork and such however its competitive community is really immature, anger from teammates and opponents so there is a lot of chances to start a flame war in that game.

 

[blerb]

What is DOTA?

Satan's reincarnation.

 

[paper_crane]

He actually makes a good point and for being drunk it's a good point. People whine that brawl isn't competitive, when in fact its MORE competitive. You're now leveled down to everyone else, you can't beat them just because you know advanved techs, you're fighting using the same arsenal. The competitive field has been widened not decreased, you have more opponents now and they're all JUST as capable as you now.

I'm not against tearing down unnecessary technical barriers, but in doing so, Sakurai eliminated a good chunk of the offensive and defensive options that gave Melee its depth. Yeah, the playing field is even now, but the skill cap is also much lower than before--which is a real shame, because it didn't have to be that way. The loss of wavedashing wouldn't have been a big deal, for example, if tilts and smashes could be used out of the dash. The loss of dashdancing wouldn't be so bad if the turn-around animation of the regular dash were slightly shorter. Even the universal "floatiness" that pervades the game physics would be tolerable if attacks had enough hitstun and shieldstun to make up for slower movement. But Brawl fails to compensate for the loss of Melee's advanced techniques in any meaningful way, and the competitive aspect of the game suffers greatly as a result.

 

[blerb]

I couldn't care any less right now. people will find tactics to use and they will be as popular as things like Shffling. just give it a month or two and one will come out.

 

[Earthstrike]

Before anybody comes in slating the OP, his post is actually rather well written and does make some decent points Not like anyone will read this post, but I thought I'd get it out there just in case :3

Also, just to add people who think the game won't be competitive because of a lack of certain advanced techniques, are limiting themselves and the game they play, in both Brawl and Melee. They're the type of workman who blames his tools for his lack of skill. It's not the techniques that makes a good player, it may add a bit more depth to the game, but you actually have to have some semblance of skill to actually use these techniques to a decent level.

The only thing that will make Brawl less competitive is the community dismissing the game as such, and not finding ways to expand their horizons and limiting the game to how they think it should be played after a relatively short time not how it might be played in the future.

That all being said, I couldn't care less. I'm a casual player and none of this will ever affect me. But unlike some people here, I'm always looking on ways to improve the games I'm playing when I get the chance, I don't dismiss anything until I've had a good feel for it, or it is an inherently bad game (which Brawl is not, regardless of which Smash Bros game you prefer).

Edit: The OP's post is quite well written, despite being under the influence. Which is more than I can say for quite a lot of the 'intelligent' posts that I have seen posted on this board by members who were most definitely sober.

Wow Tabris, You post on smashboards? Did you get another ban from Neogaf or something?

Edit: I see you're 161 posts.

 

[wwepatriot]

Even with you being drunk you still make more sense and speak more truth then what anyone on SWF has ever done.

SWF since melee has thought they are the entire world, when they ready to crown someone as being pro for a backyard tournament, they are declared best in the world.

thats the problem with SWF, its an elitist group of *******s that think thr world revolved around them and their little tournaments they have in California...........Sorry.... I mean Mexico, because nothing American about California anymore.

But to the SWF ******* community, since this speaks the truth it will be locked and most likely the idiots will come in here and call it a troll post. Typical cycle of SWF people.

End of story.

 

[crazygoose]

That was... actually very well written OP.

PM me your friend code, I'd like to have you on my friend list.

 

[Mic_128]

And then there's the back room. How f*cked up a concept is having a back room. God forbid your new findings in the game get out to the public--no, we need a place where only the cool kids can talk about their discoveries. Is there another videogame community that's so elitist it needs the "elites" of the elitist to have their own private chat room so others can't learn what you know about the game?

Pfft, the back room doesn't come up with uber techniques or anything, all they discus is just rules, wether stages should be counterpicks or not, easiest ways to organise tournaments, ect.