Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[HyperSomari64]

I guess that means you are a boomer then. No offense on that, though.

You mean a Gen X

 

[CannonStreak]

You mean a Gen X

Yeah, that probably works better here.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I was born a few months before the DS

I could tell because of the PFP

That was the 80's dude. I'm willing to bet most of us were born in the 90's or early 2000's.

TBF Nintendo refuses to let the NES die in any way so even if we were born in the lat 90's odds are we played tons of NES stuff growing up, i know i did.

 

[HyperSomari64]

TBF Nintendo refuses to let the NES die in any way so even if we were born in the lat 90's odds are we played tons of NES stuff growing up, i know i did.

Sega Japan said "**** it!" and killed off the Mark III when the Mega Drive was available, but Sega Europe and TecToy (Brazil) were smarter and let the Master System live for a few more years.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I am one who was a 90s kid actually. I did play some NES games, but not in the 80s. I was born late in the 80s.

It wouldn't make a difference since the NES had quite a long lifespan. Heck, it was still getting games even after the SNES launched.

 

[CannonStreak]

It wouldn't make a difference since the NES had quite long lifespan. Heck, it was still getting games even after the SNES launched.

I knew that. I was more of a Sega Genesis and a SNES person back then, though.

 

[dream1ng]

Was there actually all that much of a Western buzz for Little Mac? I know it confused Japan, but IIRC the West mostly just accepted Little Mac's inclusion because it made sense to them, not because there was a big push for his inclusion. It could be that playable Little Mac was less driven by Western appeal, but more by moveset potential.

Other people have addressed his popularity, but I just mean that without the west, Little Mac wouldn't have made it. Not because his demand got him in, I actually don't think it did, I think it was just having a popular recent game and a popular legacy. It's just virtually all that impact was exclusively western. So if they were only looking at Japan, unlike all previous inclusions, Little Mac barely would've been a blip.

Moveset potential in general is never the foremost quality that gets characters included; you can derive a unique moveset from most candidates. They choose the character, then the moveset is crafted around them. The foremost qualities are being prolific, demanded, and/or recent. Little Mac had the same basic moveset potential since the NES (Giga Mac aside). What he had for 4 was a recent, successful game (in the west).

Moveset potential is only decisive when the moveset already exists (i.e. clones), when the first choice provides some sort of obstacle (i.e. Chrom/Robin, Heihachi/Kazuya, other retros/ICs), or when literally all else is equal like Incineroar and Decidueye.

It's also ironic because Little Mac's main detraction was people saying he didn't have enough to work with.

 

[dream1ng]

Edit: Double post, my bad.

I remember me and Swamp Sensei talked about what the general speculation buzz around the Smash 4 characters was back in the day, as well as the Ultimate ones. Only thing I might push back on that Swamp mentioned was Chrom as a fan favorite. He always gave off more of the vibe that he was expected more than he was wanted if that makes sense. It’s part of why Robin had a solid cult following during Smash 4: they were a viable option that was more interesting moveset wise to many.

There was a degree of resignation to Chrom's inevitability which drove expectation, especially after Gematsu, but he certainly had genuine popularity as well. He was a divisive popular character, perceived by some as boring and derivative, but he was still a popular character.

Didn't at least most of us experience the NES era back then? So we should see things the same way.

Isn't everyone here like me?

Even if people did grow up during the same eras that wouldn't inherently instill in them the same preferences or basically reject anything with a z-axis like Darth usually does. The characters I want to see included range from the 80s to the late 10s.

And I think characters like Geno or the immediate immense popularity of Inkling prove people aren't going to just request the ones they grew up with.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Way more people owned an NES than a Master System or Atari 7800

Unless you were European (even if you had an Spectrum/Amstrad CPC) or South American (Mostly Brazilian or Argentine)

 

[Sucumbio]

Atari failed in so many ways but most importantly it failed to embrace system identity by character. Too little too late and less powerful, the Atari 7800 could have been much bigger had they unified the library. NES in America was so well executed by comparison.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly Atari's story is incredibly complicated and filled with so many little decisions that, while making sense at the time, ended up backfiring later, that its honestly hard to even catalog them.

That there were two simultaneous Atari companies after 1984 one of which attempted to compete with Nintendo with their consoles while the other ended up in several lawsuits against them just makes things even more confounding.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Unless you were European (even if you had an Spectrum/Amstrad CPC) or South American (Mostly Brazilian or Argentine)

Its pretty interesting how in Hispanic parts of the world Sega and SNK's characters are arguably more iconic than anything Nintendo's put out outside of Pokemon.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Its pretty interesting how in Hispanic parts of the world Sega and SNK's characters are arguably more iconic than anything Nintendo's put out outside of Pokemon.

I'm from an hispanic part of the world (Peru), and i didn't know what the PECK were the Game Gear nor Cool Cool Toon, respectively

 

[Wonder Smash]

Isn't everyone here like me?

Even if people did grow up during the same eras that wouldn't inherently instill in them the same preferences or basically reject anything with a z-axis like Darth usually does. The characters I want to see included range from the 80s to the late 10s.

And I think characters like Geno or the immediate immense popularity of Inkling prove people aren't going to just request the ones they grew up with.

It's just a matter of understanding some people's perspective. I can understand why he might reject those characters but that doesn't mean I agree with him on all of them. Like I said, Takamaru and Prince of Sable seem like fair game. I don't see any reason to reject them like he does.

 

[dream1ng]

To be fair to Atari, it's also easier to make missteps when you're the one forging the path. Part of why Nintendo managed to usurp the crown from them is because they learned from Atari's mistakes in terms of implementing content control on both the quality and quantity of their system's library.

And then later, Sega and to a much greater extent Sony would then leverage Nintendo's shortcomings, such as their overcompensatory and draconian third-party practices born from not emulating Atari's blunders and provide an ecosystem more hospitable and unrestricted to other companies.

 

[MasterCheef]

Nintendo Switch Pro dev kits real !!?

thoughts ?

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[NotGenerico]

I just finished the Resident Evil 4 Remake and I've got to say, Leon Kennedy would be such a cool Smash character. He's certainly my pick for a Resident Evil rep.
With that said, if he ever gets in, this has to be one of his victory poses:

 

[Wonder Smash]

Nintendo Switch Pro dev kits real !!?

thoughts ?

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Switch Pro? Or Switch 2?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, do you think the Mario movie will affect Smash at all?

Non game media affects Smash all the time. The Pokemon are blatant proof of that.

Toad and Kamek are major characters in the film. Could the film increase their support? Kamek is still probably going to be a little niche, but Toad has a major silent presence. He's the biggest character not added yet.

No other Nintendo character (that isn't in Smash) is bigger than Toad. He's bigger than most third party requests too.

Could this be the time of Toad sweep?

Spoiler

 

[Capybara Gaming]

A thought I had. If Overwatch ended up getting a character in the game (which, frankly, I doubt it ever would due to the game not being super popular in Japan) I genuinely think it would be D.va rather than Tracer. She's the game's most popular character by a landslide (and that's not just because she's my main.) She consistently ranks as the most played hero in the game, or at the very minimum in the Top 5, even when she's not meta.

Personally, I think it'd be cool to have her have a de-mech gimmick. Maybe don't give de-meched a full moveset, she shouldn't be waiting too long to get back in, but I actually think she'd make a fun character in the game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

well let's see, there's fan reviews, that rather long list of supporters i recall the old support thread, the love for the arcade version of the game, it's not uncommon use in pop culture, you know the usual things

Yeah, but are those things really popularity, or just familiarity. Pretty much anyone that bought an NES for, like, a 3 year period had the game, whether they wanted to or not.

Like, I have nostalgia for Minesweeper too.

cause it was the days of gaming when being popular didn't guarantee you another game the way it does now

No such days ever existed. Games are have always been made by companies. If they're profitable, they get sequels, unless something else unusual is going on.

not to mention a space invaders movie. that one will need a lot of padding

Nah. It's just Helm's Deep, but with aliens.

Didn't at least most of us experience the NES era back then? So we should see things the same way.

You think "most" of the board is over 35?

Lol y'all young I was born in '76 and my formative video game console was the Coleco Gemini.

'79 and the Atari 2600 here.

or basically reject anything with a z-axis like Darth usually does.

I like plenty of 3d games. But they're usually series that started in 3d. Most of the time, if a series started in 2d and transitioned to 3d, I think the best games in the series are the 2d ones.

Like I said, Takamaru and Prince of Sable seem like fair game. I don't see any reason to reject them like he does.

I just think they're nobodies. And I don't like it when nobodies take Fighter spots. Nobodies make for good Assist Trophies.

That being said, I don't accept just any character from the NES era.

Gotta get checks!

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, but are those things really popularity, or just familiarity. Pretty much anyone that bought an NES for, like, a 3 year period had the game, whether they wanted to or not.

Like, I have nostalgia for Minesweeper too.

No such days ever existed. Games are have always been made by companies. If they're profitable, they get sequels, unless something else unusual is going on.

so what you're saying is every way we have to measure popularity is meaningless?

 

[Lionfranky]

A thought I had. If Overwatch ended up getting a character in the game (which, frankly, I doubt it ever would due to the game not being super popular in Japan) I genuinely think it would be D.va rather than Tracer. She's the game's most popular character by a landslide (and that's not just because she's my main.) She consistently ranks as the most played hero in the game, or at the very minimum in the Top 5, even when she's not meta.

Personally, I think it'd be cool to have her have a de-mech gimmick. Maybe don't give de-meched a full moveset, she shouldn't be waiting too long to get back in, but I actually think she'd make a fun character in the game.

Series less popular than Overwatch in Japan got in. So, I'm pretty sure it's very likely.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t know a whole lot about Overwatch but it looks like it would be fun if I were into strictly competitive online games. I like how all the characters have their own unique skills and powers that help them stand out. Personally, I’d much prefer a character from WarCraft, StarCraft, or Diablo but I’m not really opposed to Overwatch either. I feel like the previous three franchises have a stronger legacy and I personally prefer the character designs to those of Overwatch.

Another similar franchise that could be interesting is Borderlands, which has a bunch of fun characters with their own abilities. The entire franchise is on Switch and it seems to be very popular (despite the issues with its developer). I’m a bit surprised I never see those games brought up.

 

[Soy_Man]

Series less popular than Overwatch in Japan got in. So, I'm pretty sure it's very likely.

Well, I think western characters are generally less likely than ones from Japan given that there's like 5 in ultimate, if you count diddy kong, k rool and dark samus.

 

[Gengar84]

Well, I think western characters are generally less likely than ones from Japan given that there's like 5 in ultimate, if you count diddy kong, k rool and dark samus.

That’s true but I think we should also pay attention to the fact that most of the western characters are from the most recent entries of Smash. I think this could potentially signal a shift towards being more open to including more characters from outside Japan. I feel like Ultimate may just be the start of that trend like Brawl was for third party characters in general.

 

[MasterCheef]

Switch Pro? Or Switch 2?

My thinking is the next notable performance upgrade in the Switch family will be called the Switch Pro

 

[chocolatejr9]

So, do you think the Mario movie will affect Smash at all?

Non game media affects Smash all the time. The Pokemon are blatant proof of that.

Toad and Kamek are major characters in the film. Could the film increase their support? Kamek is still probably going to be a little niche, but Toad has a major silent presence. He's the biggest character not added yet.

No other Nintendo character (that isn't in Smash) is bigger than Toad. He's bigger than most third party requests too.

Could this be the time of Toad sweep?

Spoiler

Personally, I think we should wait and see if the movie ends up affecting the games somehow. IDK, just a hunch I have...

 

[Gengar84]

Personally, I think we should wait and see if the movie ends up affecting the games somehow. IDK, just a hunch I have...

I could definitely envision the movie increasing demand for certain characters if they are well liked and popular. For example, if tons of people really love Toad in the movie, I could see that translate to requests for him in Smash. It all really depends on how popular the movie ends up being and how popular characters that aren’t already represented in Smash are. For the same reason, I feel like the Sonic movies will likely increase demand for a second Sonic character in Smash. Getting more general exposure can really only help in my opinion.

Speaking from my personal experience, I had almost no knowledge of League of Legends other than the basic gameplay concept and that it had cool looking characters (even if some are basically copies of other cool characters from other media). After watching Arcane, a LoL character shot way up in my personal most wanted list into at least my top 15. I have and likely will never play the mainline games but I’m now more interested in the lore and have also bought the RPG spinoff, Ruined King on the Switch. None of that would have ever happened if I didn’t watch Arcane.

 

[fogbadge]

Toad has a major silent presence.

speak for yourself, i never shut up about him

 

[chocolatejr9]

I could definitely envision the movie increasing demand for certain characters if they are well liked and popular. For example, if tons of people really love Toad in the movie, I could see that translate to requests for him in Smash. It all really depends on how popular the movie ends up being and how popular characters that aren’t already represented in Smash are. For the same reason, I feel like the Sonic movies will likely increase demand for a second Sonic character in Smash. Getting more general exposure can really only help in my opinion.

Speaking from my personal experience, I had almost no knowledge of League of Legends other than the basic gameplay concept and that it had cool looking characters (even if some are basically copies of other cool characters from other media). After watching Arcane, a LoL character shot way up in my personal most wanted list into at least my top 15. I have and likely will never play the mainline games but I’m now more interested in the lore and have also bought the RPG spinoff, Ruined King on the Switch. None of that would have ever happened if I didn’t watch Arcane.

FWIW, it's doing REALLY well in America:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And given how big Nintendo is in Japan, it'll DEFINETLY do well over there, so...

 

[Lenidem]

speak for yourself, i never shut up about him

Well, don't take it wrong, but you're not making that much noise.

 

[Gengar84]

FWIW, it's doing REALLY well in America:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And given how big Nintendo is in Japan, it'll DEFINETLY do well over there, so...

Yeah, in that case I can definitely see the movie driving at least some increased interest for the major characters that aren’t already playable in Smash (likely Toad).

 

[fogbadge]

Well, don't take it wrong, but you're not making that much noise.

if you knew me in person you’d never be able to say that with a straight face

 

[Gengar84]

I’m just waiting for someone to tell me I don’t talk about Battletoads often enough.

 

[Lenidem]

if you knew me in person you’d never be able to say that with a straight face

Not sure what you mean. I'm just talking about the discussions on Toad in Smash, and from where I am, he doesn't seem to be brought up that much (alas).

 

[fogbadge]

Not sure what you mean. I'm just talking about the discussions on Toad in Smash, and from where I am, he doesn't seem to be brought up that much (alas).

Of course you that’s the point

anyway apparently I’m not doing this enough
TOAD!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chocolatejr9]

I’m just waiting for someone to tell me I don’t talk about Battletoads often enough.

You don't talk about Battletoads often enough.

Consider this my Good Deed of the Day(TM).

 

[fogbadge]

And while I’m at it TOADETTE!!!!!!!!!

 

[Wonder Smash]

You think "most" of the board is over 35?

Just somewhere in the 30s.

I just think they're nobodies. And I don't like it when nobodies take Fighter spots. Nobodies make for good Assist Trophies.

I'm not sure if Takamaru can really be seen as a nobody, though. Despite only getting one game, it keeps getting referenced in later games, besides just the Smash Bros series. He's pretty much like the new Pit at this point; a retro character whose game came out way back on the NES but one that's still appealing to the modern fans enough to want to play in Smash Bros.

Sable Prince may not have the same recognition but he could bring something new in being a GameBoy retro character and with his game most likely appealing to the Zelda fans, he could be a welcome addition.