Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

Are people seriously trying to argue Twighlight Princess isn't a super popular game?

Have we fallen this much?

No really, this is assinine. This is going so hardcore gamer that we're ignoring the very fanbases we're talking about. This is dumb.

I don't deny it's popularity. But..... Besides the issues I have with the game itself, it's one of the very few games where I had quite a bunch of issues with the popularity surrounding it and the people praising it.

 

[MomijiInubashiri630]

I always figured Midna was one of the most popular characters, she certainly has the most fanart.

Uhhhh....yyeahhhh....I wonder why....

 

[Soy_Man]

My pick for a Zelda Rep is Link, from specifically Majora's Mask, i.e. Pokemon Trainer, but with Zelda races. He'd cycle between his three transformations, being Deku, Zora and finally Goron.

I always liked the idea, because it wouldn't just represent Majora's Mask, but also Dekus, Zoras, and Gorons, which are recurring things from the series as a whole. Having a playable Goron alone would be could be pretty unique.

Also I just prefer movesets that are representative of character's ingame abilities, as opposed to completely original movesets like Sheik. Which is why I like this idea more than having Impa or Skullkid.

But more than anything, I just want Ganondorf to not be a semiclone of Captain Falcon.

 

[fogbadge]

Are people seriously trying to argue Twighlight Princess isn't a super popular game?

Have we fallen this much?

No really, this is assinine. This is going so hardcore gamer that we're ignoring the very fanbases we're talking about. This is dumb.

oh yes, they love to argue about it. in my experience every discussion about the loz franchise eventually turns into and argument over which 3d zelda they hate the most. quite dull for people like me who love all of them means we can never join in the conversation. probably why i don't think i'd get on with other zelda fans despite being their king

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Are people seriously trying to argue Twighlight Princess isn't a super popular game?

Have we fallen this much?

No really, this is assinine. This is going so hardcore gamer that we're ignoring the very fanbases we're talking about. This is dumb.

I wouldn’t say Twilight Princess is unpopular, but compared to most of the other 3D Zelda’s outside of Skyward Sword its star shines dimmer. It doesn’t have that rapturous approval that Ocarina of Time or Breath of the Wild do. It is not a cult classic in the same way Majora’s Mask or Wind Waker are. It’s more popular than Skyword Sword, but if you did say Twilight Princess was one of the less popular 3D Zelda’s right now, I wouldn’t be too up in arms. It doesn’t matter too much when pretty much every 3D Zelda is a critical darling. Twilight Princess sold very well to boot.

Also I would be over the moon if we got Midna. Honestly I want her even more than Skull Kid, and I want skull kid a lot. Honestly, I wonder if things would be a little different for the two of them if Skull Kid’s AT was the one revealed earlier and Midna lingered until the base game’s final reveals. Would Midna be the bigger fan request instead? Who knows.

 

[Gengar84]

Twilight Princess is actually the only Zelda game I played near to completion. I got to the boss of the Sky Temple but my power cut out and I lost hours of progress so I never went back. The only other games I’ve played were Ocarina of Time, where I made it to the Forest Temple and The Wind Waker where I just got past the first dungeon. There was just something about Twilight Princess that compelled me to keep playing where the others didn’t as much. I still prefer the artstyle and overall character design of Ocarina of Time in the whole series but I think I lost patience at the time because I kept getting stuck. Majora’s Mask’s time limit turned me away from trying it and I watched my brother play a ton of Breath of the Wild as well as all of the other 3D Zeldas including OoT and Wind Waker but he never played MM for the same reason either.

 

[fogbadge]

Twilight Princess is actually the only Zelda game I played near to completion.

you have not lived

 

[Gengar84]

you have not lived

Might be partially because I just tend to suck at games in general. I’m surprised I was able to beat Metroid Dread aside from two bosses I had to have my friend beat for me (Raven Beak and the big boss shortly before him). I got pretty good at everything other than the melee counter which I never really got the timing down so I wasn’t able to beat those two. That’s the main thing keeping me from ever wanting to try Elden Ring or a Souls game despite them looking pretty cool.

 

[fogbadge]

Might be partially because I just tend to suck at games in general. I’m surprised I was able to beat Metroid Dread aside from two bosses I had to have my friend beat for me (Raven Beak and the big boss shortly before him). I got pretty good at everything other than the melee counter which I never really got the timing down so I wasn’t able to beat those two. That’s the main thing keeping me from ever wanting to try Elden Ring or a Souls game despite them looking pretty cool.

so do I but I try not to let that stop me

 

[Gengar84]

I’m hoping the next Smash game has alts for the Zelda characters with their designs from each game as well as giving Link his hookshot back. I’d love to be able to choose my favorite versions of each character (OoT Link and Ganondorf and TP Zelda). Hyrule Warriors did it so I don’t think it’s totally out of the question. I was really hyped to see Ganondorf’s design in Ultimate which is basically his OoT design but looks even better. Ultimate Ganondorf is easily my favorite look for the character.

Alt outfits is a big region I feel Smash is lacking in general. So many characters like Link, Samus, Shulk, and K. Rool have so much potential but they mostly just got skins. I feel pretty much all the attention in that department went to the Miis with a few exceptions like Bowser Jr., Villager, and Hero.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I believe this is the first 4th Party game on the Nintendo Online service, isn't it?

I’d argue even the characters with the echo label are inconsistent. Ken is a lot more unique than any other echo and probably could have even fallen under the semi-clone category.

It is inconsistent, and I think the term should have a larger umbrella. Semi-clones like Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, etc. should either get fully unique movesets, or should be relabeled Echoes.

Impa is close. She's darn close. And I'd love her to be included. But Skull Kid and Midna stand head and shoulders above the rest.

No way. I'd have agreed with you before the Hyrule Warriors games introduced 2 versions of her that the fanbase absolutely loves. But not now.

My biggest issue is that three of those characters are variants of Link and that Ganondorf started as a clone of Captain Falcon.

Replace Falcondorf with HW Ganondorf, PLEASE.

Pig Ganon would be cool

Pig Ganon is already in Smash in the form that represents him best. A Boss.

This is probably a hot take but i think some characters just "Fit" better as assist trophies than they do playable characters

It IS a hot take, but it shouldn't be, because it's 100% true. Some people just don't like to accept it.

Just like some characters just make more sense as Bosses than as Fighters.

My pick for a Zelda Rep is Link, from specifically Majora's Mask, i.e. Pokemon Trainer, but with Zelda races. He'd cycle between his three transformations, being Deku, Zora and finally Goron.

I completely support this...provided it REPLACES the current Young Link.

I wouldn’t say Twilight Princess is unpopular, but compared to most of the other 3D Zelda’s outside of Skyward Sword its star shines dimmer.

This. TP is popular to the extent that ALL Zelda games are popular. But as far as core Zelda games go, it's one of the least popular ones.

 

[Gengar84]

I believe this is the first 4th Party game on the Nintendo Online service, isn't it?

I suppose you could say that licensed games are a RARE occurrence on Nintendo Online.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I believe this is the first 4th Party game on the Nintendo Online service, isn't it?

Pretty sure, yeah. Can't say I expect many more, though: you know how these things can be...

 

[DarthEnderX]

Pretty sure, yeah. Can't say I expect many more, though: you know how these things can be...

There aren't a lot of 4P games that are considered to be core to the identity of the system the way Goldeneye is.

And some of the ones that might be seen that way, like your DuckTales or your TMNT, are already in anthology collections from their original companies, and thus, aren't likely to be given away on Nintendo Online.

 

[Gengar84]

Maybe I’m crazy (I probably am) but I think the fact that we’re finally seeing RARE games come back to Nintendo consoles can only help their chances of getting another character in Smash down the line. Hopefully GoldenEye is a big success and brings more attention to their legacy. I just wish it were available for a stand-alone purchase because I don’t really play online games often enough for it to be worth it. I do wonder if having both GoldenEye and Banjo-Kazooie on the online service kills the chances of finally seeing RARE Replay on the Switch or their next console.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Did I hear something about a pirate?

You sure did!

 

[HyperSomari64]

The infamous TMNT game for the NES got into the Wii virtual console before getting removed due to aexpired license.

 

[Gengar84]

The infamous TMNT game for the NES got into the Wii virtual console before getting removed due to aexpired license.

I wasn’t even aware of that one. I still need to buy the Cowabunga Collection. My friend bought it at launch and we played his copy but I feel I should still support them to encourage future TMNT games. Same reason I bought Chrono Cross on the Switch despite already beating it 5 times.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I still need to buy the Cowabunga Collection. My friend bought it at launch and we played his copy but I feel I should still support them to encourage future TMNT games.

I would think buying Shredder's Revenge would be a better way to send that message. Buying CC just tells them you want past TMNT games.

 

[Gengar84]

I would think buying Shredder's Revenge would be a better way to send that message. Buying CC just tells them you want past TMNT games.

I already bought Shredder’s Revenge at launch and had a blast with it. It probably even surpassed Turtles in Time as my favorite TMNT game, which I always thought would be impossible.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I wasn’t even aware of that one. I still need to buy the Cowabunga Collection. My friend bought it at launch and we played his copy but I feel I should still support them to encourage future TMNT games. Same reason I bought Chrono Cross on the Switch despite already beating it 5 times.

People should buy the Cowabunga Collection to encourage future collections of old Konami titles; getting all the Loony Tunes/Tiny Toons/Animaniacs titles on one release would be fantastic.

(Getting both Becky O’Hare games would be a dream, but even I’m not holding my breath on that.)

 

[Gengar84]

People should buy the Cowabunga Collection to encourage future collections of old Konami titles; getting all the Loony Tunes/Tiny Toons/Animaniacs titles on one release would be fantastic.

I did buy the Contra collection already and I might buy the CastkeVania collection if it goes on sale on the E-Shop again. The Contra collection taught me that I’m actually worse at video games as an adult than I was as a kid lol.

 

[HyperSomari64]

People should buy the Cowabunga Collection to encourage future collections of old Konami titles; getting all the Loony Tunes/Tiny Toons/Animaniacs titles on one release would be fantastic.

Reminder that some LT games are from Atari (the French one), Sunsoft or Kemco, so not sure how Warner will handle this.

Aside of that, i want EA to do a collection of classic Simpsons games. (most of them pre-6th Gen so no Hit & Run)

 

[Dinoman96]

Also I would be over the moon if we got Midna. Honestly I want her even more than Skull Kid, and I want skull kid a lot. Honestly, I wonder if things would be a little different for the two of them if Skull Kid’s AT was the one revealed earlier and Midna lingered until the base game’s final reveals. Would Midna be the bigger fan request instead? Who knows.

Do remember that Skull Kid had the backing of a (at the time) seemingly reliable insider, in the form of Loz13. That was another huge "boon" for him, outside of saving his AT until the very end.

 

[Gengar84]

Do you think if we got Midna, they’d go the Hyrule Warriors approach and incorporate Wolf Link (or at least spectral forms of him) into her moveset? I always thought she was fun in HW and thought that was a fun idea.

 

[Sucumbio]

I already bought Shredder’s Revenge at launch and had a blast with it. It probably even surpassed Turtles in Time as my favorite TMNT game, which I always thought would be impossible.

My favorite was Manhattan Project! The music especially was impressive to me at the time.

Thinking back, I never noticed but Ubisoft ended up wresting the rights from Konami and then Activision after them. It makes me wonder if we ever do get a TMNT rep in Smash of they're going to have a licensing issue lol.

 

[Gengar84]

My favorite was Manhattan Project! The music especially was impressive to me at the time.

Thinking back, I never noticed but Ubisoft ended up wresting the rights from Konami and then Activision after them. It makes me wonder if we ever do get a TMNT rep in Smash of they're going to have a licensing issue lol.

My guess is they wouldn’t really have to contact any of those developers for the characters themselves. That would likely be Nickelodeon and maybe Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird though I’m not sure if they hold any rights to the characters. If they want other content like music from the games, they’d presumably contact those developers then. Most likely Konami and Tribute Games is my guess (though I’m not at all an expert at game rights and licensing).

 

[Hadokeyblade]

My favorite was Manhattan Project! The music especially was impressive to me at the time.

Thinking back, I never noticed but Ubisoft ended up wresting the rights from Konami and then Activision after them. It makes me wonder if we ever do get a TMNT rep in Smash of they're going to have a licensing issue lol.

Use the Rabbids, they were in a TMNT game once lol

 

[Lenidem]

does Zelda need a core main cast beyond the Triforce holders?

Yes.

 

[Gengar84]

Does anybody else remember the TMNT Smash clone on the Wii from some of the same people that made Brawl? I think that idea has a ton of potential but the game ended up being a bit of a let down. I’d love to see that idea revisited today taking inspiration from across the series. I just hope it would end up being better than Smash Up and Nick Allstars.

Some of my favorite and most iconic designs for many of the characters were from the original Playmates toys back in the day. I’d love to see many of those designs in either a game or animation.

 

[Soy_Man]

Yes.

I wouldn't say it NEEDS it, but it would be nice.

 

[Lenidem]

does Zelda need a core main cast beyond the Triforce holders?

Quoting you again because I think I misunderstood your message the first time.

I think Zelda definitely needs more characters in Smash. But in the main serie? No, not really. I mean, if it's a direct sequel, why not. Skull Kid becoming the main antagonist (more or less) after being a very secondary character was nice. It tied the two stories and the two worlds together. Similarly, the pirate crew coming back after Wind Waker made total sense. I would also mention Tingle, who I kinda like as some wierd twisted reflexion of the Hero, stuck in the same reincarnation cycle for whatever reason.

But yeah, the serie doesn't really need more than that. The king, maybe, why not.

As a side note, that's one of the things I dislike about the Oracle games and Minish Cap. It makes absolutely no sense to have another Malon and Talon, or Igor, and I'm sure I forget some others. I actually think reusing them is cheap and lazy. Major's Mask had a very good reason to reuse the assets of Ocarina of Time and made it very clear that the characters you meet in Termina are not the ones you met in Hyrule, despite the similarities.

 

[Mamboo07]

Does anybody else remember the TMNT Smash clone on the Wii from some of the same people that made Brawl? I think that idea has a ton of potential but the game ended up being a bit of a let down. I’d love to see that idea revisited today taking inspiration from across the series. I just hope it would end up being better than Smash Up and Nick Allstars.

View attachment 367144

Some of my favorite and most iconic designs for many of the characters were from the original Playmates toys back in the day. I’d love to see many of those designs in either a game or animation.

Which had the Rabbids as guest fighters.

 

[Stratos]

A new character I'm thinking of is the protagonist who is a Cyborg from Cyborg Justice, where you get to choose an arm, body and legs. When played with two players, the first player's components are yellow and gray, while the second player's components are green and purple. Although I have to admit that this Cyborg would be hard to come by as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series.

 

[Gengar84]

A new character I'm thinking of is the protagonist who is a Cyborg from Cyborg Justice, where you get to choose an arm, body and legs. When played with two players, the first player's components are yellow and gray, while the second player's components are green and purple. Although I have to admit that this Cyborg would be hard to come by as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series.

View attachment 367145

That sounds like it would make for an interesting character. I can’t say I’m familiar with the game. Possibly because I was always a Nintendo kid growing up so I never really knew many games on Sega consoles.

 

[Opossum]

Folks are focusing on Midna and Skull Kid, and fairly so. Meanwhile, I'm just wishing Ghirahim got into Smash 4 lol.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Folks are focusing on Midna and Skull Kid, and fairly so. Meanwhile, I'm just wishing Ghirahim got into Smash 4 lol.

I remember when a lot of people were asking for Ghirahim.

 

[Quillion]

As a side note, that's one of the things I dislike about the Oracle games and Minish Cap. It makes absolutely no sense to have another Malon and Talon, or Igor, and I'm sure I forget some others. I actually think reusing them is cheap and lazy. Major's Mask had a very good reason to reuse the assets of Ocarina of Time and made it very clear that the characters you meet in Termina are not the ones you met in Hyrule, despite the similarities.

Having Link and Zelda have reincarnations and/or descendants that look closely alike isn't lazy, yet having the Lon Lon family, Anju, Dampe, and others have identical descendants throughout time is?

 

[Gengar84]

Having Link and Zelda have reincarnations and/or descendants that look closely alike isn't lazy, yet having the Lon Lon family, Anju, Dampe, and others have identical descendants throughout time is?

I was under the impression that only the Triforce trio was able to keep reincarnating so the other characters looking the same would be a bit strange. Although Impa is also in most games so I could be wrong. I admit I don’t really understand all of Zelda’s lore.

 

[fogbadge]

I was under the impression that only the Triforce trio was able to keep reincarnating so the other characters looking the same would be a bit strange. Although Impa is also in most games so I could be wrong. I admit I don’t really understand all of Zelda’s lore.

I do