Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Capybara Gaming]

Basically, it would be the best 3D Pokemon game to date if it wasn't for all the glitches, which i hope get patched down the line. It is rally fun when there are no glitches.

I want Jigglypuff's new form as an echo fighter in the next smash, alongside some of this games OST, because man is Scarlet and Violet full of bangers.

Spoiler: Three songs from the OST

Toby Fox worked on the OST, so that's probably why haha

 

[Geno Boost]

Waluigi is his first I believe

Edit: Toad, King Bob-ob, and Skull kid are probably next in line and I think he will also be working on Waluigi more.

Wait there will be King Bob-omb brawl mod coming? I know Skull Kid will eventually come but didn’t know about King Bob-omb

 

[silenthunder]

Wait there will be King Bob-omb brawl mod coming? I know Skull Kid will eventually come but didn’t know about King Bob-omb

I can’t tell if you were mocking my spelling or being genuine, but yes, King Bob omb is coming according to the creator and I’m not the best speller.

 

[Geno Boost]

I can’t tell if you were mocking my spelling or being genuine, but yes, King Bob omb is coming according to the creator and I’m not the best speller.

Idk why you thought I was mocking your spelling I was really curious because I thought Skull Kid would be the last one and never heard anything about King Bob-omb being made for brawl

 

[silenthunder]

Idk why you thought I was mocking your spelling I was really curious because I thought Skull Kid would be the last one and never heard anything about King Bob-omb being made for brawl

We both spelled bob omb wrong at first I found it odd

Edit: but I believe you, sorry for my suspicion

 

[chocolatejr9]

Completely random, but do you guys think there are any good RPG Maker reps that could get into Smash? My sister has been livestreaming a bunch of them (mostly from the Strange Men series), and I started to wonder if there were any that could work.

 

[silenthunder]

Completely random, but do you guys think there are any good RPG Maker reps that could get into Smash? My sister has been livestreaming a bunch of them (mostly from the Strange Men series), and I started to wonder if there were any that could work.

no but start petitioning and maybe in the future

 

[HyperSomari64]

Completely random, but do you guys think there are any good RPG Maker reps that could get into Smash? My sister has been livestreaming a bunch of them (mostly from the Strange Men series), and I started to wonder if there were any that could work.

That bearded guy from Lisa or Madotsuki

 

[Ivander]

Completely random, but do you guys think there are any good RPG Maker reps that could get into Smash? My sister has been livestreaming a bunch of them (mostly from the Strange Men series), and I started to wonder if there were any that could work.

I don't know any like, notable actual "RPG" RPG Maker reps. The only notable ones I know of are horror-based RPG Maker games like Corpse Party, Witch's House and Mad Father. Corpse Party is probably the oldest, as it came out in 1996.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Well there was that one RPG maker game made by the creator of Fire emblem, can't remember the name though.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well there was that one RPG maker game made by the creator of Fire emblem, can't remember the name though.

You mean Vestaria Saga? I remember because some people took issue with it having an article on the Fire Emblem Wiki.

 

[Idon]

Well there was that one RPG maker game made by the creator of Fire emblem, can't remember the name though.

Yeah, and they sued the **** out of him. The absolute LAST thing they want to do is to even be in the same room as him.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah, and they sued the **** out of him. The absolute LAST thing they want to do is to even be in the same room as him.

Technically, they sued him for TearRing Saga, the game he made BEFORE Vestaria Saga (the one made in RPG Maker), but I get what you're saying.

Although now that you mention it, that WOULD explain why they don't associate with him anymore, wouldn't it?

 

[Wonder Smash]

Unless I missed the experimentation and whatnot, it's not that similar.

That's just one difference, which really doesn't matter.

My point is, horror isn't just a genre. It's also a style and aesthetic. You can have horror games that don't focus on being scary. Look at Left 4 Dead. It focuses on alot of horror aspects and whatnot, but it doesn't focus on being scary. Evil Dead. Has horror plots and alot of horror tropes, doesn't focus on being scary. Splattehouse. Has alot of horror tropes and a gallery of monsters that would make most horror monsters look tame, doesn't focus on being scary.
Horror isn't all about being scary sometimes. Sometimes it's used as an aesthetic, background and whatnot. While such titles and movies may not be horror in the sense of Resident Evil, Silent Hill and whatnot, it doesn't mean they can't be horror-focused.

Being scary is exactly the point of the horror genre. It's meant to frighten you, scare you, creep you out, you name it. It's not call horror genre for nothing. What you're talking about is certain themes that are either common in the horror genre or originated from it. For example, Darkstalkers feature a lot of horror movie-style monsters and it's pretty dark but the horror genre is meant to be scary and there's really nothing scary about the Darkstalkers series. Therefore, despite the horror movie monsters, it's never been called a horror series.

 

[osby]

I don't know any like, notable actual "RPG" RPG Maker reps. The only notable ones I know of are horror-based RPG Maker games like Corpse Party, Witch's House and Mad Father. Corpse Party is probably the oldest, as it came out in 1996.

Omori and Off comes to mind. Both of them are horror-y but they're also RPGs.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Yeah, and they sued the **** out of him. The absolute LAST thing they want to do is to even be in the same room as him.

Yah, i completely forgot Nintendo sued the guy over the Saga series.

 

[DarthEnderX]

For example, Darkstalkers feature a lot of horror movie-style monsters and it's pretty dark but the horror genre is meant to be scary and there's really nothing scary about the Darkstalkers series. Therefore, despite the horror movie monsters, it's never been called a horror series.

Exactly. Calling Darkstalkers a horror game is like calling Count Chocula a horror cereal.

 

[Ivander]

Being scary is exactly the point of the horror genre. It's meant to frighten you, scare you, creep you out, you name it. It's not call horror genre for nothing. What you're talking about is certain themes that are either common in the horror genre or originated from it. For example, Darkstalkers feature a lot of horror movie-style monsters and it's pretty dark but the horror genre is meant to be scary and there's really nothing scary about the Darkstalkers series. Therefore, despite the horror movie monsters, it's never been called a horror series.

Not 100%. Horror can also be about repulsion or loathing, like being repulsed at the sight of so much blood and gore and whatnot. A big example of horror genre of this is Hammer horror, a set of movies that really focus on the atmosphere and the blood and gore. While the point of many horror games and movies is to be scary, it's not 100% the intention of all horror games and movies. And intention is a big thing. Why are games like Darkstalkers and Ghosts'n Goblins not horror games? Because it wasn't their intention.
With Doom, the developers have clearly treated it as horror. The setting and dark atmosphere, your goal of trying to survive an army of demons and zombified soldiers, heck look at Doom 3 and the movie, both of which take from the original game(and Doom 3 was planned as a 'remake') and focus entirely on horor. Doom itself clearly treats itself as part of horror. Just because the action games play much differently from the expectation of most horror games taking you through steadily does not make it not horror. And that applies to alot of movies and games that play differently from your usual horror game.

Exactly. Calling Darkstalkers a horror game is like calling Count Chocula a horror cereal.

I mean, all of that sugar and calories going into your body while masquerading itself as a nutritious cereal is pretty horrifying by itself.

 

[silenthunder]

Is Mischief Makers a horror game? Every block is an agony. The first pg horror game.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

There's also nuance to how something like horror is utilized throughout a game's play time. Ecco the Dolphin is a somber puzzle action game at first before slipping into darker elements as the story goes on and arguably going for some scares by the time the final boss hits:

Spoiler

Ecco the dolphin : The last fight

Here it come the last boss.Its exteremly hard for some reason.First This boss do damage a crap load of damage, everything is almost Okho.But that's not the m...

www.youtube.com

 

[Wonder Smash]

Not 100%. Horror can also be about repulsion or loathing, like being repulsed at the sight of so much blood and gore and whatnot. A big example of horror genre of this is Hammer horror, a set of movies that really focus on the atmosphere and the blood and gore. While the point of many horror games and movies is to be scary, it's not 100% the intention of all horror games and movies. And intention is a big thing. Why are games like Darkstalkers and Ghosts'n Goblins not horror games? Because it wasn't their intention.

And therefore, not horror games.

Games like Resident Evil are definitely meant to be scary. I'm sure many people remember how scary it is running from a character like Nemesis or Mr. X all the time.

With Doom, the developers have clearly treated it as horror. The setting and dark atmosphere, your goal of trying to survive an army of demons and zombified soldiers, heck look at Doom 3 and the movie, both of which take from the original game(and Doom 3 was planned as a 'remake') and focus entirely on horor. Doom itself clearly treats itself as part of horror. Just because the action games play much differently from the expectation of most horror games taking you through steadily does not make it not horror. And that applies to alot of movies and games that play differently from your usual horror game.

Any game can have a certain description that gives off the impression that it's dark or possibly horror. Commander Keen has a story where the main character, who is just a boy, is stranded on Mars (the very same Mars Doom Slayer himself would end up on) and has to fight through a group of aliens before he can get back to Earth.

But the reality is, in the case of Doom, even though it is dark, it's overall a standard action video game series like many others from the 80s and early 90s. You're playing as a tough, silent protagonist, fighting his way through a group of demons using whatever weapons and powerups he can find. Playing a character like that, you don't feel scared at all.

 

[Perkilator]

Going back to a horror rep: Resident Evil is the main front runner, but there are tons of options for a playable character. You could pick one of the protagonists and base their moveset around either the PS1 trilogy or other games, or you could include one of the monsters like Nemesis or Lady Dimitrescu or technically Wesker for a more unique moveset.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Doom is entirely a case by case basis. Something like Doom 64 plays up the horror elements more than the games surrounding, even down to the more disturbing soundtrack.

 

[Ivander]

Going back to a horror rep: Resident Evil is the main front runner, but there are tons of options for a playable character. You could pick one of the protagonists and base their moveset around either the PS1 trilogy or other games, or you could include one of the monsters like Nemesis or Lady Dimitrescu or technically Wesker for a more unique moveset.

I think the protagonists are most likely and depending on moveset, you could possibly have Chris, Jill, Leon and Claire in a Hero scenario, although Jill and Leon are probably the most likely solo(maybe duo) candidates due to their popularity. If we get a Monster Rep from Resident Evil, I'd say Nemesis is the most likely. Wesker would be good if going for the villain route, as he's easily the most popular Resident Evil villain, although compared to Kazuya, who was at least the first Tekken protagonist before becoming a villain character, I can't see Wesker getting in over Jill or Leon first.

And man, have I been getting tired of seeing Lady D. Although it's less about her and more seeing everybody pick her over more notable characters, including Wesker and Nemesis, for MvC fan rosters. And personally, I vastly prefer Heisenberg over her and believe he would be much more fun in moveset compared to her.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

With Resident Evil, my ideal scenario has always been a Jill/Leon Fighter with Chris/Claire as an echo/semi-clone. Put a bit more physical emphasis on the former via stuff like kicks/grabs while the latter is more focused around weaponry. Basically highlight all four of the classic RE protagonists and allow for a bit of variety with the moveset/s.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Doom is entirely a case by case basis. Something like Doom 64 plays up the horror elements more than the games surrounding, even down to the more disturbing soundtrack.

Many people say Doom 3 plays more up to the horror elements but I think that was why it was their least favorite in the series, as I don't think fans like Doom leaning into the horror genre.

 

[HyperSomari64]

And personally, I vastly prefer Heisenberg over her and believe he would be much more fun in moveset compared to her.

Walter White in the next Marvel vs. Capcom?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Many people say Doom 3 plays more up to the horror elements but I think that was why it was their least favorite in the series, as I don't think fans like Doom being a horror series.

I think part of it comes down to how its implemented. Doom 3 simply went way to overt in its lighting and creature design to the point where it didn't quite feel like the other games eventually. Doom 64 manages it a bit more subtly via the darker soundtrack, more muted colors, and enemies like the Pain Elementals feeling more quietly off than over the top horrifying. Maybe its not quite outright horror, but it flirts with the genre to make for a genuinely novel game while still feeling like Doom.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Man, Captain Falcon really is just gonna be "that guy who punches in Smash", huh?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just remember, scary is subjective.

In addition, the characters in the Monster Mash are actually horror icons by design(why yes, some of the scary monsters are also used in kid-friendly designs too. Hell, Hotal Transylvania's whole point is that monsters are seen as scary but really aren't bad people. It's a deconstruction of horror). So them showing up in another work can be for horror. Bram Stoker's Dracula was made as a horror series. ...He was added to Castlevania because horror is just a part of the series too. And it makes sense. The whole premise is the scary denizens of the undead and night coming to kill and ravage towns. It's just they can only do so much with graphics and it's not the only part of said series, but horror is absolutely a part of it.

The TV show directly starts with it being massively horror-based as I noted before. We see terrified people everywhere(a key part of the horror aspect is how it causes terror in people).

Doom absolutely has horror to it, but not every game is based strictly upon it. Darkstalkers is all about horror icons, and yes, it has scary stuff. It has tons of people killed as backstories in horrifying situations as part of it. They are meant to actually be scary. They even went out of their way to make one of the scariest characters specifically a human who hunts Darkstalkers, to the point she's more cold than almost any single one of them. As well as the other coldest member being a human creation. Nothing is scarier than what a human can come up with.

But yeah, trying to put everything under one hard definition isn't how genres are used. There's many different routes it can take. It's kind of silly trying to push your definition and exactly what you see as the only possibility and isn't fair to others. No, that's not how it works.

Besides that, yes, Doom 3 is listed as Survival Horror(the whole series is still considered a Horror series anyway when listed. Not hard to see why. It's got scary environments by design, yes). Castlevania is listed as Gothic Horror(which being it's based upon Bram Stoker's Dracula, with its own spin on things... isn't exactly hard to see why), Wolfenstein is another one. Note that it doesn't list Darkstalkers, but that's probably due to it just using horror icons respectively(which is odd, since it's literally a Gothic Horror setting. But hey, no list is perfect). Either way, the elements of Horror being in constant games that aren't just survival horror(which is but one subgenre of horror anyway) are constant, so they still count as part of the entire genre by design.

Incidentally, "action horror" is actually a film-only subgenre and isn't used in any video games. It's part of the action film set, which makes sense. Resident Evil's movies fall strictly under that.

(BTW, this is what I mean by trying to only hold one definition. That's not how the world works anyway. Horror is used in more than one method as a genre).

 

[Wonder Smash]

Just remember, scary is subjective.

In addition, the characters in the Monster Mash are actually horror icons by design(why yes, some of the scary monsters are also used in kid-friendly designs too. Hell, Hotal Transylvania's whole point is that monsters are seen as scary but really aren't bad people. It's a deconstruction of horror). So them showing up in another work can be for horror. Bram Stoker's Dracula was made as a horror series. ...He was added to Castlevania because horror is just a part of the series too. And it makes sense. The whole premise is the scary denizens of the undead and night coming to kill and ravage towns. It's just they can only do so much with graphics and it's not the only part of said series, but horror is absolutely a part of it.

The TV show directly starts with it being massively horror-based as I noted before. We see terrified people everywhere(a key part of the horror aspect is how it causes terror in people).

Doom absolutely has horror to it, but not every game is based strictly upon it. Darkstalkers is all about horror icons, and yes, it has scary stuff. It has tons of people killed as backstories in horrifying situations as part of it. They are meant to actually be scary. They even went out of their way to make one of the scariest characters specifically a human who hunts Darkstalkers, to the point she's more cold than almost any single one of them. As well as the other coldest member being a human creation. Nothing is scarier than what a human can come up with.

You're talking about horror elements, which I already said some series can have but that doesn't mean it's a horror series. Being killed in horrifying situations is not exactly scary either. It's the atmosphere of it that makes it scary. BB Hood being a cold blooded hunter is "scary"? I...really don't get that. The interesting part about her design is that she's a crazy, cold blood killer that just so happens to look like Little Red Riding Hood. That's not exactly "scary" at all.

But yeah, trying to put everything under one hard definition isn't how genres are used. There's many different routes it can take. It's kind of silly trying to push your definition and exactly what you see as the only possibility and isn't fair to others. No, that's not how it works.

Besides that, yes, Doom 3 is listed as Survival Horror(the whole series is still considered a Horror series anyway when listed. Not hard to see why. It's got scary environments by design, yes). Castlevania is listed as Gothic Horror(which being it's based upon Bram Stoker's Dracula, with its own spin on things... isn't exactly hard to see why), Wolfenstein is another one. Note that it doesn't list Darkstalkers, but that's probably due to it just using horror icons respectively(which is odd, since it's literally a Gothic Horror setting. But hey, no list is perfect). Either way, the elements of Horror being in constant games that aren't just survival horror(which is but one subgenre of horror anyway) are constant, so they still count as part of the entire genre by design.

Incidentally, "action horror" is actually a film-only subgenre and isn't used in any video games. It's part of the action film set, which makes sense. Resident Evil's movies fall strictly under that.

(BTW, this is what I mean by trying to only hold one definition. That's not how the world works anyway. Horror is used in more than one method as a genre).

What list are you going by? Because based on what you're saying, you can't call Castlevania a horror series but not Darkstalkers. That already shows a problem right there and that you probably shouldn't even be going by that list anyway.

And it's not going by one "hard" definition. Horror is always about being scary, usually to the viewers and to the characters. However, it can be done different ways and I think that's what you're missing. Overall, it's no different from saying what's a fighting game. As we know, fighting games are centered around fighting. That doesn't mean it's just "one hard definition". There's always certain kind of fighting games if you want to be specific but in the end, fighting games are focused fighting.

There's also shooting games. Different kind of shooting games but in the end, it's still focused shooting.

 

[HyperSomari64]

You know what's the real horror of the entire industry? Electronic Arts.

 

[Perkilator]

I’ve been mulling over one idea I’ve had recently for a retro rep: Valkyrie from Namco.

 

[Troykv]

You know what's the real horror of the entire industry? Electronic Arts.

A lot have been victims of their massacres

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're talking about horror elements, which I already said some series can have but that doesn't mean it's a horror series. Being killed in horrifying situations is not exactly scary either. It's the atmosphere of it that makes it scary. BB Hood being a cold blooded hunter is "scary"? I...really don't get that. The interesting part about her design is that she's a crazy, cold blood killer that just so happens to look like Little Red Riding Hood. That's not exactly "scary" at all.

Yes. And Darkstalkers is designed with tons of horror-based atmospheres. Again, you're the only one pushing "there's only one definition!" as if it's true. When that's not how it works. Reality check; it's a genre with subgenres. It's called Gothic Horror, which specifically Darkstalkers uses. More importantly, the reason it's not on said list is because the list is for horror games where it's a part of the core gameplay. It's... pretty clearly not in Darlkstalkers, but is absolutely a core part of the settings.

Lol, B.B. Hood is a horrific person and scary as hell. She uses said cuteness to cause massive despair in-universe with some of the darkest moments and makes all the other Darkstalkers bar Jedah at best look like little children at play. None of them are nearly as serious, even then. The closest otherwise is Dimitri's horrific moments during his Midnight Bliss finishers, but he's also a vampire who is constantly used to create fear over and over again. Unlike Morrigan, whose purpose is sex appeal instead. She only really acts scary sometimes in the cartoon(but they made her a pseudo-vampire there, so it makes sense).

What "list" are you going by? Because based on what you're saying, you can't call Castlevania a horror series but not Darkstalkers. That already shows a problem right there and that you probably shouldn't even be going by that list anyway.

And it's not going by one "hard" definition. Horror is always about being scary, usually to the viewers and to the characters. However, it can be done different ways and I think that's what you're missing. Overall, it's no different from saying what's a fighting game. As we know, fighting games are centered around fighting. That doesn't mean it's just "one hard definition". There's always certain kind of fighting games if you want to be specific but in the end, fighting games are focused fighting.

There's also shooting games. Different kind of shooting games but in the end, it's still focused shooting.

Games aren't not only one genre. Also, I just did say that Darkstalkers was listed as a horror series but not on the same list. ...Did you miss that part? Cause I specified it too.

You are going by one definition, though. You're dismissing tons of games listed under type of horror genre just cause it doesn't fit your sole narrative. Despite it not working that way. Horror isn't a single genre. I just listed multiple types of horror series and genres. I'm not sure why you keep insisting it when it's literally shown to be the exact opposite of what you're saying.

Let me simplify it for you; elements of a genre mean said game exists in that genre too. That's the point of said genre. It always counts.

These are all parts of Horror as a genre(not specifically games or movies in this list, since they can overlap sometimes);
Survival Horror
Action Horror
Gothic Horror
Supernatural Horror
Psychological Horror
(And there's probably more, but it's not exactly easy to find every detail when they're scattered throughout)

But to keep it simple again; Darkstalkers is listed under Gothic Horror. Castlevania, Doom, and Wolfenstein are Survival Horror. Resident Evil(Film) is Action Horror. For a small reference pool, but they are in the end part of the Horror Genre. I get what you're trying to say, that the horror elements must be part of the gameplay. However, that's not really how media works anyway. Most video games are full of multiple genres at once, and it doesn't matter if it's strictly part of the narrative or gameplay only. Both always will matter as part of its presentation. ...Are you seriously telling me that the original style of Dracula, not the kid-friendly one, isn't a horror icon now? Because he's never really used outside of that. That's his purpose. He's there for horror. The least evil version we've ever seen within a work using the Bram Stoker version is the Castlevania TV Show, and that's cause they rewrote his entire background so that he's a sympathetic figure. Despite that, his entire goal is to destroy humanity(till Season 3 after he dies) and causes massacres after a Priest basically murdered his wife in cold blood, changing his view on humanity. There's nothing but blood and gore, which, lo and behold... is a major part used in the Horror genre as well(it's not like it's one definition. In fact, these are all used by horror fiction in general; "Prevalent elements of the genre include ghosts, demons, vampires, werewolves, ghouls, the Devil, witches, monsters, extraterrestrials, dystopian and post-apocalyptic worlds, serial killers, cannibalism, cults, dark magic, satanism, the macabre, gore and torture."

That's a huge amount of details that encompass said genre. Understandably I don't find your view very convincing when it ignores way too much actually within the genre itself. Your premise has only been on the single definition of "it scares people", but the genre was absolutely not built on that alone. But tons of other materials in order to make it a workable piece of media. Especially when you can't rely solely on descriptions but now have too much media that requires the right atmosphere, and so on.

I'm not going to engage further either way. Enough evidence is there to show that your view clearly doesn't match up with the actual genre as it is. Which is what we were talking about in the first place, not the most basic definition of horror and how only "it scares you" is applied to games. But actually games in the horror genre(which as I noted, is pretty massive). I will reiterate that the "Games in the Horror Genre" was made with the concept that the Horror is part of the gameplay to some degree, which admittedly despite everything with Darkstalkers, is barely there. It's just the settings, not the gameplay, so that's likely why it wasn't listed anyway. But saying Darkstalkers clearly has no relations to horror as a game is still off anyway.

 

[Ivander]

I’ve been mulling over one idea I’ve had recently for a retro rep: Valkyrie from Namco.

Vakyrie would certainly be a cool pick and she has a distinct design. That said, even if they managed to get priority over other series like Tales, Dark Souls, Soul Calibur, .hack, Klonoa, Xenosaga, etc, would Valkyrie be the Namco Retro pick over other Namco Retro characters like Mappy, Taizo(Dig Dug), Gilgamesh or Taira no Kagekiyo?

 

[Speed Weed]

I’ve been mulling over one idea I’ve had recently for a retro rep: Valkyrie from Namco.

I get why people might want to look into other corners of Bamco, since we've already had Pac-Man, but there's some really good potential in their retro arcade stable. Characters like Mappy, Gil, Valkyrie, Rick Taylor, Wonder Momo would all be great fun, even if they're not exactly super likely

Vakyrie would certainly be a cool pick and she has a distinct design. That said, even if they managed to get priority over other series like Tales, Dark Souls, Soul Calibur, .hack, Klonoa, Xenosaga, etc, would Valkyrie be the Namco Retro pick over other Namco Retro characters like Mappy, Taizo(Dig Dug), Gilgamesh or Taira no Kagekiyo?

Out of those, I will say I do think she at least definitely has it over Taira no Kagekiyo, even though he's probably my favorite of the retro Namco people.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If Ridley got in Smash cuz a loophole about his size, then the Bamco REP (GameFAQs reference lol) can be a down-sized Mazinkaiser from Super Robot Wars. It appeared before the anime and it's original to the series even if it's based on the original Mazinger Z.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If Ridley got in Smash cuz a loophole about his size, then the Bamco REP (GameFAQs reference lol) can be a down-sized Mazinkaiser from Super Robot Wars. It appeared before the anime and it's original to the series even if it's based on the original Mazinger Z.

I wouldn't say it was a loophole. They made a new model for him overall and he had massive fan demand to help.

The normal models weren't used to downsize him. And he's still clunky in battle at times, though way better than any downsized mod respectively. But, well, one had simply a lot more time and experience to refine said playstyle, so that was bound to happen, heh.

 

[Ivander]

Out of those, I will say I do think she at least definitely has it over Taira no Kagekiyo, even though he's probably my favorite of the retro Namco people.

Well, the reason I mentioned him is that by what I heard, Genpei Tōma Den is popular or has a notable following in Japan. And I think it got some attention when Taira no Kagekiyo became a character in Fate Grand Order(as Taira no Kagekiyo was either a historical person or a historical character in the Japanese Epic Heike Monogatari) and part of their material pages/bio bits were references or similarities to Genpei Toma Den.

That said, the Taira no Kagekiyo summoned in Fate Grand Order is a vengeful spirit persona(this would require a long explanation to properly explain) who possessed the dying Yo****sune/Ushiwakamaru when she was betrayed by her brother Yoritomo and harboured resentment towards him for abandoning her and Benkei.