Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

ok. if you remember i said it was part of smash's identity not it's identity in it's entirety. see it's like the old philosophical idea that if you replace all the parts of something then it is no longer the same, the ship of theseus or if you prefer peter capaldi had a version about a broom. so likewise if change all the parts of game's identity then it's no longer the same game. so how many of smash's parts are left? a game about nintendo's all stars: gone, nintendo stuff is still in the majority but by sakurai's own admission the game is no longer about nintendo. a unique spin on the fighting genre: mostly gone, with platform fighters now a whole sub-genre and ultimate including things more in line with a traditional fighter i'm not sure you can say this anymore. set in aworld about toys/trophies coming to life to fight: still there but not confirmed until sora's trailer. playing as characters who aren't normally in fighters: still in the majority but no longer exclusively, and a number of the more popular 4th party characters have been in loads of fighters. a celebration of gaming: still here and always been here, even in the days when it was all about nintendo it was all about nintendo's games, no hanafuda trophy, no ultra arm item, no taxi stage.

in short many of the things that made smash smash have changed or can now be found in several other games and it's my view that the inclusion of 4th party characters would finish it off and then it would just like any other platform fighter. all games have things that make them what they are. even games with rotating casts and settings or are constantly changing the gameplay still have recurring story themes and ideas

I think you may have missed one of my points along the way as well. It’s probably partially my fault as I tend to ramble a lot. You can actually keep the Nintendo focus while expanding into non game properties as long as you choose ones that have a strong identity with being played on Nintendo consoles. You don’t even have to change the distribution of first to third party characters to do this. We can still have just as many Nintendo characters as before. I’d argue that it’s possible to keep more of Smash’s original identity with various non game properties than what we have right now. As I said, history with Nintendo should matter more than a character’s origins if you care about the series being primarily Nintendo focused. That’s just my personal opinion though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I guess my argument is that you can include non game characters and actually make it more about Nintendo than it currently is. I love Joker and Sephiroth but they have no relation to Nintendo. Licensed games that were fairly high profile like GoldenEye and Turtles in Time have a lot stronger ties than many other characters that debuted in games. If the criteria currently is to add anyone just because they debuted in a game, regardless to whether they had any relation to Nintendo at all, what is Smash’s identity as it currently stands?

What I’m trying to say is whether the character debuted from a video game seems arbitrary if you care about Smash’s identity as a Nintendo focused roster. What would matter more to me is how relevant a property was on a Nintendo console and how synonymous it is with the Nintendo brand. Several non game properties have much stronger ties to Nintendo than many highly requested characters that debuted in games.

To make myself clear, I’m cool with anything, non game, third party, or whatever. I do agree that it would be nice to at least have some focus on Nintendo relevance for guests even if it isn’t a requirement. That’s one reason I always push for RARE characters over Master Chief.

This is a very strong argument my friend.

 

[HyperSomari64]

List of "Fourth-Party" characters that are Feasible for Smash because they are owned (or partially-onwed) by Nintendo:

• Captain N (or Kevin Kleene) - Captain N: The Game Master
• Nester (with or without Howard Lincoln) - Nintendo Power/Nester's Funky Bowling
• Tiff & Tuff (or Escargoon if you want something) - Kirby: Right Back at Ya!
• Team Rocket (Jessie, James and Meowth, or maybe Meowth alone with some attacks using the gadgets) - Pokémon anime

 

[fogbadge]

I think you may have missed one of my points along the way as well. It’s probably partially my fault as I tend to ramble a lot. You can actually keep the Nintendo focus while expanding into non game properties as long as you choose ones that have a strong identity with being played on Nintendo consoles. You don’t even have to change the distribution of first to third party characters to do this. We can still have just as many Nintendo characters as before. I’d argue that it’s possible to keep more of Smash’s original identity with various non game properties than what we have right now. As I said, history with Nintendo should matter more than a character’s origins if you care about the series being primarily Nintendo focused. That’s just my personal opinion though.

ok for future reference when I say Nintendo focused I mean Nintendo things. You know things owned by them and things made by them. Not things that have history with Nintendo. That’s what you should care about if you want the series to be Nintendo focused

HyperSomari64 I’m not sure Nintendo are aware of Nestor

 

[Gengar84]

ok for future reference when I say Nintendo focused I mean Nintendo things. You know things owned by them and things made by them. Not things that have history with Nintendo. That’s what you should care about if you want the series to be Nintendo focused

Noted. I’m usually referring to games that have a strong history and recognition for being played on Nintendo despite not actually being developed by them. When I refer to Nintendo themselves, I usually just say “Nintendo” or “first party” rather than “Nintendo focused” or something similar.

 

[fogbadge]

Noted. I’m usually referring to games that have a strong history and recognition for being played on Nintendo despite not actually being developed by them. When I refer to Nintendo themselves, I usually just say “Nintendo” or “first party” rather than “Nintendo focused” or something similar.

well I maintain that you can’t have something Nintendo focused if the vast majority of things aren’t Nintendos. Now that we’ve got that sorted shall we move onto the fact that its a licensing nightmare or change subject completely and everyone suggests an item idea?

 

[Gengar84]

well I maintain that you can’t have something Nintendo focused if the vast majority of things aren’t Nintendos. Now that we’ve got that sorted shall we move onto the fact that its a licensing nightmare or change subject completely and everyone suggests an item idea?

Sakurai made Sora happen and licensing hasn’t stopped Soul Calibur and Mortal Kombat but I’ll leave that there since that’s not my area of expertise.

I really want to see the animal buddies from DKC as rideable items if we can’t have Dixie Kong with a moveset focused around the idea personally. I feel the original SNES DKC trilogy is still kind of poorly represented in Smash personally. K. Rool was a very welcome step in the right direction towards addressing that though.

 

[fogbadge]

I really want to see the animal buddies from DKC as rideable items if we can’t have Dixie Kong with a moveset focused around the idea personally. I feel the original SNES DKC trilogy is still kind of poorly represented in Smash personally. K. Rool was a very welcome step in the right direction towards addressing that though.

funnily enough I feel the same about the series I was gonna suggest an item from. Splatoon. I had this idea before ultimate came out, the splat brella. It’s use as a gun with a shield is one I feel can translate into smash rather well. Including the controls of holding the fire button to put up the shield and holding it for longer launches the shield

 

[Wonder Smash]

Funny how I was just recently talking about Nihon Falcom and then all of a sudden, this trailer pops up:

The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero - Launch Trailer - Nintendo Switch

The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero is available now on Nintendo Switch: https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/the-legend-of-heroes-trails-from-zero-swi...

youtu.be

 

[HyperSomari64]

HyperSomari64 I’m not sure Nintendo are aware of Nestor

Then how did he appeared on the Smash for Wii U April Fools (at least in the north american webpage).

 

[fogbadge]

Then how did he appeared on the Smash for Wii U April Fools (at least in the north american webpage).

let me rephrase that: I don’t think Nintendo of Japan knows he’s exists

 

[BirthNote]

Hello everyone, after a hiatus I've returned with a new idea for Dixie Kong.

This entry is another for the Super Hair category, which covers Hair Attacks that defy physics in a more cartoony manner, whether it's a case of flying or drilling. Speaking of which:

Dixie spins her hair like a drill and rushes forward! As she keeps low to the ground, her ponytail impales foes whilst drilling into them, racking up damage and carrying them through the trajectory. Enemies take more damage at the point of impact, and take weaker continuous damage as they're carried unwillingly by the drill.

This differs from Meta Knight's Drill Rush it can't be angled while Dixie runs but it can be stopped early. However, the endlag is notable as whenever Dixie stops her momentum will cause her to slide a bit, so while you do have another brand of Kongicide you can inflict on foes, using this on the edge of a Walk-Off Stage is risky even without a victim.

This move is inspired by Meta Knight's Side B, Greninja's Running Animation and Dixie's Swimming Animation from Tropical Freeze. Thanks to her using her hair as a drill in that, Drill-Like attacks are now on the table. It seems there are many ways to spin a ponytail.

If anyone wants an idea of potential options for Dixie, I have a Google Doc covering a myriad of ideas that grows ever so slightly. The more high quality images are closer to the bottom.

Dixie Kong Moveset by Andrew C

docs.google.com

There's also the old Smash Ultimate thread for Dixie as well.

 

[Gengar84]

Hello everyone, after a hiatus I've returned with a new idea for Dixie Kong.

This entry is another for the Super Hair category, which covers Hair Attacks that defy physics in a more cartoony manner, whether it's a case of flying or drilling. Speaking of which:

Dixie spins her hair like a drill and rushes forward! As she keeps low to the ground, her ponytail impales foes whilst drilling into them, racking up damage and carrying them through the trajectory. Enemies take more damage at the point of impact, and take weaker continuous damage as they're carried unwillingly by the drill.

This differs from Meta Knight's Drill Rush it can't be angled while Dixie runs but it can be stopped early. However, the endlag is notable as whenever Dixie stops her momentum will cause her to slide a bit, so while you do have another brand of Kongicide you can inflict on foes, using this on the edge of a Walk-Off Stage is risky even without a victim.

This move is inspired by Meta Knight's Side B, Greninja's Running Animation and Dixie's Swimming Animation from Tropical Freeze. Thanks to her using her hair as a drill in that, Drill-Like attacks are now on the table. It seems there are many ways to spin a ponytail.

If anyone wants an idea of potential options for Dixie, I have a Google Doc covering a myriad of ideas that grows ever so slightly. The more high quality images are closer to the bottom.

Dixie Kong Moveset by Andrew C

docs.google.com

There's also the old Smash Ultimate thread for Dixie as well.

That’s a cool idea. I actually came up with two different ideas for a Dixie Kong moveset that I might share at some point. My favorite is utilizing various animal buddies for several of her specials. The other idea was to make her a tag duo with Kiddy Kong. I think I expanded on each at some point here before but I have no idea where I posted them anymore. I’ve always loved the idea of characters feeling like they come straight out of their source game, with minor tweaks to make them work in Smash but leaving the core concept and playstyle roughly as if you’re playing the character in their own game.

On a somewhat related note, I wish we got more stages along those lines as well. I’d love a stage that was just a section of an existing stage from DKC 2 but modeled in 3D and cropped to be fun to play on. I feel we have too many Battlefield-esque stages and I’d love to have more that feel like you’re actually playing in the world of the game they’re referencing.

 

[BirthNote]

That’s a cool idea. I actually came up with two different ideas for a Dixie Kong moveset that I might share at some point. My favorite is utilizing various animal buddies for several of her specials. The other idea was to make her a tag duo with Kiddy Kong. I think I expanded on each at some point here before but I have no idea where I posted them anymore. I’ve always loved the idea of characters feeling like they come straight out of their source game, with minor tweaks to make them work in Smash but leaving the core concept and playstyle roughly as if you’re playing the character in their own game.

Glad you like it. An Animal Buddy based moveset would be pretty fun, especially since the 2 Kongs we have don't really reference DKC much in their movesets. I only recently started exploring Animal Buddy ideas but there's a lot of untapped potential that even I wouldn't have thought of, so feel free to share your movesets here and/or the All Purpose DK Thread when you get the chance.

Back in the day I wasn't down with Dixie having Kiddy in her moveset, but over time I realized you can come up with some fun stuff utilizing those two. There's a lot of directions you can take a potential moveset in so it would be cool to see what you make.

 

[Gengar84]

Glad you like it. An Animal Buddy based moveset would be pretty fun, especially since the 2 Kongs we have don't really reference DKC much in their movesets. I only recently started exploring Animal Buddy ideas but there's a lot of untapped potential that even I wouldn't have thought of, so feel free to share your movesets here and/or the All Purpose DK Thread when you get the chance.

Back in the day I wasn't down with Dixie having Kiddy in her moveset, but over time I realized you can come up with some fun stuff utilizing those two. There's a lot of directions you can take a potential moveset in so it would be cool to see what you make.

Thanks. I might do that when I can find the time. Overall, I like the animal buddies idea the most but the Kiddy duo could be potentially even better if we could get the animal buddies as Smash items that you could break open the crate and a random animal buddy came out that the player could ride. Kind of like a twist on Pokeballs and Assist Trophies. Ideally, I’d have really wanted a Diddy and Dixie tag duo with the animal buddies as items but I fear that ship has sailed.

 

[Sucumbio]

The addition of 4th parties would be ok with me, but I prefer the devs concentrate on Videogame Characters, and not necessarily only ones that originated on a console, arcade board or pc, but absolutely ones that are clearly identifiable as a character from a coded game.

So like, Pong.

Is it in smash? Yes, it's an Assist.

What is the significance of Pong? We'll, brought to us by Atari, an industry giant at one point, it's a nod to the landmark days of TV overlays and paddles and indeed the original arcade game, and that all owing it's roots to William Higinbotham's "Tennis for Two" c. 1958, perhaps the original video game.

did Pong originate in video games? Kinda sorta. Table Tennis was brought about around 1920s and People have been whacking balls around for millennia so... but yeah obviously by the sheer design of the AT it's clearly an ode to the arcade cabinet.

so anyway, a "4th" party character such as Superman or Aladdin or King Arthur is what I'd call fair game because although they don't originate from a video game, they are represented enough already (though how well is of course up to individual tastes Saber for Smash please Nintendo!).

 

[Gengar84]

The addition of 4th parties would be ok with me, but I prefer the devs concentrate on Videogame Characters, and not necessarily only ones that originated on a console, arcade board or pc, but absolutely ones that are clearly identifiable as a character from a coded game.

So like, Pong.

Is it in smash? Yes, it's an Assist.

What is the significance of Pong? We'll, brought to us by Atari, an industry giant at one point, it's a nod to the landmark days of TV overlays and paddles and indeed the original arcade game, and that all owing it's roots to William Higinbotham's "Tennis for Two" c. 1958, perhaps the original video game.

did Pong originate in video games? Kinda sorta. Table Tennis was brought about around 1920s and People have been whacking balls around for millennia so... but yeah obviously by the sheer design of the AT it's clearly an ode to the arcade cabinet.

so anyway, a "4th" party character such as Superman or Aladdin or King Arthur is what I'd call fair game because although they don't originate from a video game, they are represented enough already (though how well is of course up to individual tastes Saber for Smash please Nintendo!).

Despite being somewhat obsessed with Smash, I don’t think I have any real criteria for the type of character where I’d be legit upset if they got in and consider Smash ruined (within reason, so no political figures or adult film stars, or similar controversial choices). At most, I’d probably just think it was funny and laugh it off. Shrek and SpongeBob would be pretty silly inclusions but I think I’m way passed the point of letting that effect my mood if they got in. Steve was my least wanted character and I didn’t get upset at all when he got in. I was totally accepting of Snake and Sonic in Brawl too.

That said, I’d much prefer non game characters with actual video game history, particularly on Nintendo platforms than those without but I’m happy as long as I like the character regardless.

 

[BirthNote]

Thanks. I might do that when I can find the time. Overall, I like the animal buddies idea the most but the Kiddy duo could be potentially even better if we could get the animal buddies as Smash items that you could break open the crate and a random animal buddy came out that the player could ride. Kind of like a twist on Pokeballs and Assist Trophies. Ideally, I’d have really wanted a Diddy and Dixie tag duo with the animal buddies as items but I fear that ship has sailed.

I'm honestly glad the ship sailed. Diddy's actually my favorite Kong and I'm used to him being established as his own entity. I feel that way about Dixie too, but I don't mind her using Kiddy since it probably won't be too far off from how Rosalina uses the Lumas or Banjo operates with Kazooie.

For the Animal Buddy item crate, which ones would you use? There's about 9 rideable ones from the DKCs and 4 from Jungle Beat. 2/13 of them are water animals so they might be hard to implement unless they're floating. There's also the matter of attacking. Expresso is the only one who can't attack from DKC and Flurl and the Helibird can't attack from Jungle Beat. Would you have the Animal Buddies mainly for attacking or mobility?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Oogtar is somewhat asked for Smash. But those memers never ask for Bones from Ruby-Spears' Donkey Kong Junior.

 

[fogbadge]

We'll, brought to us by Atari, an industry giant at one point

was this before or after they caused the crash

I don’t think I have any real criteria for the type of character where I’d be legit upset if they got in

not even characters you hate?

 

[Gengar84]

I'm honestly glad the ship sailed. Diddy's actually my favorite Kong and I'm used to him being established as his own entity. I feel that way about Dixie too, but I don't mind her using Kiddy since it probably won't be too far off from how Rosalina uses the Lumas or Banjo operates with Kazooie.

For the Animal Buddy item crate, which ones would you use? There's about 9 rideable ones from the DKCs and 4 from Jungle Beat. 2/13 of them are water animals so they might be hard to implement unless they're floating. There's also the matter of attacking. Expresso is the only one who can't attack from DKC and Flurl and the Helibird can't attack from Jungle Beat. Would you have the Animal Buddies mainly for attacking or mobility?

I’d say that Rambi, Enguarde, Sqwuaks, Squitter, and Rattly probably make the most sense. For Enguarde, it can just summon waves beneath it that it can ride along. They could pretty much all be multipurpose for attacking and mobility (if you count footstool attacks with Rattly as attacking).

 

[HyperSomari64]

was this before or after they caused the crash

Which crash? The well-known one caused by E.T. and Pac-Man in 1983, or the one from 1977 due to the abundance of Pong clones.

 

[BirthNote]

I’d say that Rambi, Enguarde, Sqwuaks, Squitter, and Rattly probably make the most sense. For Enguarde, it can just summon waves beneath it that it can ride along. They could pretty much all be multipurpose for attacking and mobility (if you count footstool attacks with Rattly as attacking).

That's pretty cool actually. I'd love to shoot webs with Squitter and land on people with Rattly

 

[HyperSomari64]

so anyway, a "4th" party character such as Superman or Aladdin or King Arthur is what I'd call fair game because although they don't originate from a video game, they are represented enough already

The only acceptable "Fourthie" i wanna see is Bluster Kong.
And i will be truly disappointed if Leo Luster is not his Final Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

Which crash? The well-one one caused by E.T. and Pac-Man in 1983, or the one from 1977 due to the abundance of Pong clones.

the et one, the one they were more directly involved with

 

[Sucumbio]

was this before or after they caused the crash

Well by Giant I believe I must be referring to pre 83 crash because post 83 the first new giant to emerge was Nintendo with Sega hiding behind him.

But Creatively? Late 70s early 80s when Bushnell still ran things. Tons of capital good market exposure and some great titles.

While under Raymond Kassar after Bushnell quit, Parent Warner made a killing, financially but unfortunately Kassar didn't believe Bushnell when he opposed prioritizing titles instead of innovation.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That’s a cool idea. I actually came up with two different ideas for a Dixie Kong moveset that I might share at some point. My favorite is utilizing various animal buddies for several of her specials. The other idea was to make her a tag duo with Kiddy Kong. I think I expanded on each at some point here before but I have no idea where I posted them anymore. I’ve always loved the idea of characters feeling like they come straight out of their source game, with minor tweaks to make them work in Smash but leaving the core concept and playstyle roughly as if you’re playing the character in their own game.

On a somewhat related note, I wish we got more stages along those lines as well. I’d love a stage that was just a section of an existing stage from DKC 2 but modeled in 3D and cropped to be fun to play on. I feel we have too many Battlefield-esque stages and I’d love to have more that feel like you’re actually playing in the world of the game they’re referencing.

Am actually radically opposed to both ideas to be fair. I think Dixie is worthy enough on her own merits as a fighter, and doesn't need to overly rely on gimmicks as the Animal Buddies or Kiddy, cool as they might be.

Animal Buddies aren't exclusive to Dixie anyway, and I think Rambi should be a AT or could even potentially make his own fighter, weird as it sounds. He does have seniority, recognizability, playable roles in ALL the most well known and popular and even "recent" DK games. Give me this , a full playable Rambi as his own fighter than part of Dixie, who I feel should fight with her hair.

I picture Dixie as a lightweight grappler with good air game but somewhat more semi zoner based playable with long ranged hair attacks and grab combos, I picture her as faster in the air with her attacks than the ground, but moves faster on the air than ground due to her floatiness and lower than average air speed, being a nice contrast to the other Kongs, but having similarities with them still. She should probably have a wicked kill throw too at higher presents. In a way this type of playstyle doesn't only seem fitting, but also highly effective, and a blast to play with, all by my own personal humble opinion of course. It's how I want her implemented, and the art of BirthNote depicts this quite well.

But am more than willing to see the movesets. Personally I think her own abilities shine through better with the Kiddy moveset, but I honestly never considered these options as seriously as others, but I'd love to see them regardless.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Klonoa would make a good Smash Bros character.
I know he's not that popular. But it shouldn't always be about popularity. He would fit right in with the mechanics of Smash Bros imo.

— LonelyGoomba (@LonelyGoomba) September 28, 2022

Love him or hate him, he's spitting straight facts.

 

[Gengar84]

Am actually radically opposed to both ideas to be fair. I think Dixie is worthy enough on her own merits as a fighter, and doesn't need to overly rely on gimmicks as the Animal Buddies or Kiddy, cool as they might be.

Animal Buddies aren't exclusive to Dixie anyway, and I think Rambi should be a AT or could even potentially make his own fighter, weird as it sounds. He does have seniority, recognizability, playable roles in ALL the most well known and popular and even "recent" DK games. Give me this , a full playable Rambi as his own fighter than part of Dixie, who I feel should fight with her hair.

I picture Dixie as a lightweight grappler with good air game but somewhat more semi zoner based playable with long ranged hair attacks and grab combos, I picture her as faster in the air with her attacks than the ground, but moves faster on the air than ground due to her floatiness and lower than average air speed, being a nice contrast to the other Kongs, but having similarities with them still. She should probably have a wicked kill throw too at higher presents. In a way this type of playstyle doesn't only seem fitting, but also highly effective, and a blast to play with, all by my own personal humble opinion of course. It's how I want her implemented, and the art of BirthNote depicts this quite well.

But am more than willing to see the movesets. Personally I think her own abilities shine through better with the Kiddy moveset, but I honestly never considered these options as seriously as others, but I'd love to see them regardless.

I think that’s where our preferences for Smash representations clash. I don’t think either idea is wrong really and it’s cool that everyone has their own ideas. For me, personally, I like characters to play as close to 1-1 counterparts to how they played in their home series, particularly the games I’m most familiar with and/or have the most fond memories of.

My problem with Donkey Kong and Diddy King’s Smash interpretations is that they took almost no inspiration from the classic DKC trilogy that made them popular in the first place. Donkey Kong’s moveset was almost entirely made up for Smash other than his down special. It took several games for him to even get his proper dash attack. Diddy, on the other hand, is a mixture between moves made up for Smash and taken from Donkey Kong 64. The one thing he referenced from the classics was his dash attack.

If we’re trying to stay true to character, especially from the older trilogy, there actually isn’t a ton of moves each individual Kong can do on their own. I feel like a lot of the series’ mechanical identity came from either the tag system, where the Kings can tag in and out and even use each other as projectiles to reach platforms or attack enemies, or the unique animal buddies.

Without resorting to making up moves, all Dixie could do was a hair twirl attack, a helicopter glide with her hair, and lifting enemies with her hair. Tropical Freeze added the bubble gum gun, but that’s still not a whole lot to work with. My personal preference is to actually take inspiration from her source games rather than create random attacks for her. Even if it’s something not exclusive to Dixie herself, at least it’s a fun callback to her debut game and it actually makes her more unique.

Again, that all comes down to personal preference. If you prefer characters to have a bit more creativity in their movesets rather than feeling like they come straight out of their home game, there’s nothing wrong with that either.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think that’s where our preferences for Smash representations clash. I don’t think either idea is wrong really and it’s cool that everyone has their own ideas. For me, personally, I like characters to play as close to 1-1 counterparts to how they played in their home series, particularly the games I’m most familiar with and/or have the most fond memories of.

My problem with Donkey Kong and Diddy King’s Smash interpretations is that they took almost no inspiration from the classic DKC trilogy that made them popular in the first place. Donkey Kong’s moveset was almost entirely made up for Smash other than his down special. It took several games for him to even get his proper dash attack. Diddy, on the other hand, is a mixture between moves made up for Smash and taken from Donkey Kong 64. The one thing he referenced from the classics was his dash attack.

If we’re trying to stay true to character, especially from the older trilogy, there actually isn’t a ton of moves each individual Kong can do on their own. I feel like a lot of the series’ mechanical identity came from either the tag system, where the Kings can tag in and out and even use each other as projectiles to reach platforms or attack enemies, or the unique animal buddies.

Without resorting to making up moves, all Dixie could do was a hair twirl attack, a helicopter glide with her hair, and lifting enemies with her hair. Tropical Freeze added the bubble gum gun, but that’s still not a whole lot to work with. My personal preference is to actually take inspiration from her source games rather than create random attacks for her.

Again, that all comes down to personal preference. If you prefer characters to have a bit more creativity in their movesets rather than feeling like they come straight out of their home game, there’s nothing wrong with that either.

I agree with DK, but I really like Diddy and how he's implemented in Smash. There are attacks that just fit his personality well, as F Tilt, the Smash attacks, Forward Air and Down Air and the Monkey Flip. They might have sort of been pulled out of air, but with attention to the overall personality of the character. With DK, I feel this way lesser, but strangely K.Rool especially reeks of it.

Might have a lot to do with the earlier Smash versions of DK, l feel he slaps way too much, but his aerial attacks fit him very well. Down Smash too, I want more raw power moves as Forward Air, Down Air, Down Smash and Giant Punch. I really think there's nothing wrong with Neutral Air, the Jab, Forward Smash, Spinning Kong and Ground Slap either.

 

[fogbadge]

I like characters to play as close to 1-1 counterparts to how they played in their home series, particularly the games I’m most familiar with and/or have the most fond memories of.

so byleth, ness and the like are disappointing?

 

[Dinoman96]

Klonoa would make a good Smash Bros character.
I know he's not that popular. But it shouldn't always be about popularity. He would fit right in with the mechanics of Smash Bros imo.

— LonelyGoomba (@LonelyGoomba) September 28, 2022

Love him or hate him, he's spitting straight facts.

Well, the cold harsh truth is that considering almost all of the guest characters we have are from some of the biggest, most iconic and influential series the industry has to offer, it basically always is about popularity lol.

Only real exceptions thus far have been like, Banjo-Kazooie and Bayonetta, the two (three?) characters that may as well just be Nintendo characters that also mainly got in because of significant fan demand on the Smash ballot. Don't think Klonoa's on their level either, sadly.

That being said, it'd be neat if he were an assist trophy. Bomberman and Akira makes me wish we could of gotten more "smaller" third party IPs represented as assist trophies. Stuff like NiGHTS, Samba De Amigo, Xenosaga, Ghost N' Goblins, Final Fight, Super Mario RPG etc.

 

[Diddy Kong]

so byleth, ness and the like are disappointing?

Byleth? Yes, to me they are. I'd much rather have them with their own weapon, the Creator Sword. But I understand the design choice and the circumstances that led to this. Ness tho? Can't picture him NOT borrowing PK Fire and PK Thunder from his teammates anymore.

Anyway, less than an eyesore that the Smash versions of Samus, Ganondorf and Mewtwo are honestly. They have such potential to be the coolest and most flashy characters of Smash, but are denied that cause they originate in the earlier games.

For some characters the simpleness works like a charm, like Mario, Fox, Pikachu, Ness, Captain Falcon and Jigglypuff, but it's feeling dated with DK, Samus, Yoshi and Kirby, DK cause just compare him with Diddy and K.Rool, Kirby and Yoshi and Samus need their unique mechanics with their Neutral B honestly. That alone would instantly improve their whole appeal. True to canon Swallow, Egg Lay and Charge **** would be awesome. Now I only didn't mention Link cause he's perfect right now, ideal mix of old and new.

 

[BirthNote]

Diddy Kong Samus DEFINITELY needs an overhaul it's insane what her 2D games show her do vs what Smash shows her doing.

Well, the cold harsh truth is that considering almost all of the guest characters we have are from some of the biggest, most iconic and influential series the industry has to offer, it basically always is about popularity lol.

Only real exceptions thus far have been like, Banjo-Kazooie and Bayonetta, the two (three?) characters that may as well just be Nintendo characters that also mainly got in because of significant fan demand on the Smash ballot. Don't think Klonoa's on their level either, sadly.

That being said, it'd be neat if he were an assist trophy. Bomberman and Akira makes me wish we could of gotten more "smaller" third party IPs represented as assist trophies. Stuff like NiGHTS, Samba De Amigo, Xenosaga, Ghost N' Goblins, Final Fight, Super Mario RPG etc.

It's weird, Banjo and Kazooie were popular back when they debuted, but they never came close to any of their successors, those being Jak & Daxter or Ratchet & Clank especially. B-K also fizzled out way too quickly. So they were popular for like 3 years, but they have no longevity and both their successors reached heights B-K could only dream of in a much shorter timeframe. I agree with you overall, just sprinkling some nuance in B-K's case.

 

[Gengar84]

so byleth, ness and the like are disappointing?

Byleth was pretty disappointing to me, yes. That was for multiple reasons beyond just moveset, primarily that I’d rather see more varied Fire Emblem representation beyond just the lords. I do feel like more could have been done with the Sword of the Creator rather than trying to force the other house leaders’ weapons on them. As for Ness, I’ve never played Earthbound so I don’t really have much reference. I imagine I would have been a bit disappointed as well if I was more into Earthbound and wanted Ness to feel like Ness.

 

[fogbadge]

Byleth? Yes, to me they are.

Byleth was pretty disappointing to me, yes.

nice to know i'm not the only one. i was so annoyed with yet another FE character when they first got in but now im just annoyed with his moveset

 

[SPEN18]

The weird thing with Byleth is, well:
If you're evidently going to go out of your way to appease the sword-wielder complaints, then why not just choose Edelgard or Dimitri? The answer is apparently that they didn't want to deal with the complaints that would hypothetically arise from "playing favorites" between Houses. And this makes Byleth a double-case of trying to avoid complaints (as much as possible while still promoting the game you want to promote), which is kinda strange and makes it less surprising that the final product came off kinda wonky to some people.

 

[fogbadge]

The weird thing with Byleth is, well:
If you're evidently going to go out of your way to appease the sword-wielder complaints, then why not just choose Edelgard or Dimitri? The answer is apparently that they didn't want to deal with the complaints that would hypothetically arise from "playing favorites" between Houses. And this makes Byleth a double-case of trying to avoid complaints (as much as possible while still promoting the game you want to promote), which is kinda strange and makes it less surprising that the final product came off kinda wonky to some people.

Or Claude

 

[Mamboo07]

BirthNote
What do you think of having an animal buddy as a fighter?

I remember seeing this way back years ago.

Playing as a rhino would be unexpected but fun.

 

[BirthNote]

BirthNote
What do you think of having an animal buddy as a fighter?

I remember seeing this way back years ago.
View attachment 361512
Playing as a rhino would be unexpected but fun.

It's literally crazy enough to work LMAO