Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

You are simply not getting it, are you? I'm talking specifically about Travis.

no I got it. you said because he debuted on the wii he is the equivalent to megaman and castlevania. What you said in fact at first was to the wii what they were to nes. Which just isn’t true. Then you clarified what you actually meant a type of thing that means he’s also the equivalent of final fantasy, professor Layton, ace attorney, yo-kai watch, inzuma 11, banjo kazooie, golden eye, conker etc. all debuted on Nintendo, all associated with Nintendo at one time or the other

 

[Wonder Smash]

no I got it. you said because he debuted on the wii he is the equivalent to megaman and castlevania. What you said in fact at first was to the wii what they were to nes. Which just isn’t true. Then you clarified what you actually meant a type of thing that means he’s also the equivalent of final fantasy, professor Layton, ace attorney, yo-kai watch, inzuma 11, banjo kazooie, golden eye, conker etc. all debuted on Nintendo, all associated with Nintendo at one time or the other

Actually, yes, it is true. He's to the Wii what what they were to the NES; a character from a specific Nintendo console era that's been associated with Nintendo consoles every since. I used Mega Man and Simon because they're in the roster and people constantly bring that up as one of the reasons why they wanted those characters in Smash. Travis just simply comes from a later Nintendo era and it gives people a better idea why he's popular among the Nintendo fanbase.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think we're all ignoring the obvious point that its the Virtual Boy that's really needed a rep on Smash, and given he had his own bowling game on it I can think of no one better than Nester to represent that proud console.















(Look its either him or the Robot Guys from Teleroboxer folks, we don't' have much to work with here.)

 

[fogbadge]

Actually, yes, it is true. He's to the Wii what what they were to the NES; a character from a specific Nintendo console era that's been associated with Nintendo consoles every since. I used Mega Man and Simon because they're in the roster and people constantly bring that up as one of the reasons why they wanted those characters in Smash. Travis just simply comes from a later Nintendo era and it gives people a better idea why he's popular among the Nintendo fanbase.

i don't think he is that popular among nintendo fans

 

[Wonder Smash]

i don't think he is that popular among nintendo fans

Why do you say that?

 

[fogbadge]

Why do you say that?

my nearly 3 decade of experience in the Nintendo fandom

 

[Wonder Smash]

my nearly 3 decade of experience in the Nintendo fandom

Well, that just shows how different people's experiences are in the Nintendo fandom.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I think we're all ignoring the obvious point that its the Virtual Boy that's really needed a rep on Smash, and given he had his own bowling game on it I can think of no one better than Nester to represent that proud console.















(Look its either him or the Robot Guys from Teleroboxer folks, we don't' have much to work with here.)

Why not just the Virtual Boy itself, as a reference to that one commercial?

 

[Sucumbio]

I think a virtual boy assist would be neat. Like when you get it he changes the screen into all vectors or something.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

In the next Smash the VB assist trophy will be usable in every mode except for the returning Coin Battle, as there's no way anyone's earning money when the Virtual Boy is prominent.

 

[Wonder Smash]

If Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Castlevania, and Dragon Quest were to have NES retro tracks in Smash, which ones would you all want?

 

[Perkilator]

If Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Castlevania, and Dragon Quest were to have NES retro tracks in Smash, which ones would you all want?

For Final Fantasy, I picked a lot of music in general to be lifted from non-VII games:

1. Prelude - FINAL FANTASY VII
2. Opening - FINAL FANTASY
3. Battle Scene - FINAL FANTASY
4. Last Battle - FINAL FANTASY
5. Battle Theme B - FINAL FANTASY II
6. Battle Scene 2 - FINAL FANTASY II
7. This is the Last Battle
8. Boss Battle - FINAL FANTASY IV
9. The Dreadful Fight
10. The Final Battle - FINAL FANTASY IV
11. Battle on the Big Bridge
12. The Decisive Battle - FINAL FANTASY V
13. The Decisive Battle - FINAL FANTASY VI
14. Dancing Mad ~Final Tier~
15. Force Your Way
16. The Man with the Machine Gun
17. The Extreme
18. Battle 2 - FINAL FANTASY IX
19. The Dark Messenger
20. Normal Battle - FINAL FANTASY X
21. Challenge
22. Seymour Battle
23. Vana'diel March
24. Boss Battle - FINAL FANTASY XII
25. The Battle for Freedom
26. Blinded by Light
27. Saber's Edge
28. Under the Weight
29. Stand Your Ground
30. Veiled in Black
31. Apocalypsis Noctis
32. Trisection
33. War: The White Weapon

 

[Chuderz]

If cut spec is ever getting you down either close the tab, log off or argue the plethora of merits for Ultimate DX being worked on like Smash 6. Nobody knows so you can sure argue like you might know! I mean what if the game was being worked on now? Either because it's Ultimate DX that's coming to the next Nintendo console early in its life or it's a Smash game started from scratch that'll need the extra time to avoid as many cuts as possible that would potentially be remedied with DLC? Who knows?

I can tell you all something though, "Everyone is Here" will not so easily be forgotten. They really opened pandora's box with that one.

 

[Wonder Smash]

We talk about RPGs and then there's this...

 

[DarthEnderX]

It's not. If Mega Man and Simon can be seen as NES era characters, then Travis can be seen as a Wii era character.

Okay, but you're comparing 2 icons of the NES verses a character that...existed, on the Wii. Like he said, calling Travis the Wii equivalent of Mega Man/Simon is a massive exaggeration.

 

[fogbadge]

If Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Castlevania, and Dragon Quest were to have NES retro tracks in Smash, which ones would you all want?

battle with the four fiends aka the dreadful fight

I can tell you all something though, "Everyone is Here" will not so easily be forgotten. They really opened pandora's box with that one.

what wont help is everyone forgetting that sakurai said "this aint happening a second time"

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Given the lack of stronger third party prominence on the Wii, its hard to say there's any sort of Mega Man or Castlevania equivalent for the system, outside maybe Sonic or Just Dance maybe.

 

[Sucumbio]

I remember my friend seeing mega man and Castlevania on a rental shelf back in 87 and him thinking yeah let's try these. Two years later they were in this show called Captain N. I was suddenly filled with excitement because I had played both their origin games. Years would go by and both franchises would be established as staples of the NES golden years. Good times.

Can't think of a Wii equivalent.

 

[fogbadge]

I remember my friend seeing mega man and Castlevania on a rental shelf back in 87 and him thinking yeah let's try these. Two years later they were in this show called Captain N. I was suddenly filled with excitement because I had played both their origin games. Years would go by and both franchises would be established as staples of the NES golden years. Good times.

Can't think of a Wii equivalent.

well of course. Captain N had long since ended

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, the Mega Man 2/Castlevania comparison ultimately falls flat when you consider the true scope. During the NES days, first and third party titles held equal weight on the console (granted that's partially due to Nintendo's draconian business practices, but still).

No More Heroes, meanwhile, is considered a cult classic. It's still a notable game, absolutely, but it's not one that's a system definer, so to speak, like the two games it was compared to were. The Wii era was deeply rooted in the time where Nintendo's software ecosystem was defined by its first party output almost exclusively, due to third parties mostly jumping ship due to both outdated hardware and lack of a core audience to support.

 

[Wonder Smash]

If Mega Man and Simon can be seen as NES era characters, then Travis can be seen as a Wii era character. I don't know why is that so hard to understand.

Yeah, the Mega Man 2/Castlevania comparison ultimately falls flat when you consider the true scope. During the NES days, first and third party titles held equal weight on the console (granted that's partially due to Nintendo's draconian business practices, but still).

No More Heroes, meanwhile, is considered a cult classic. It's still a notable game, absolutely, but it's not one that's a system definer, so to speak, like the two games it was compared to were. The Wii era was deeply rooted in the time where Nintendo's software ecosystem was defined by its first party output almost exclusively, due to third parties mostly jumping ship due to both outdated hardware and lack of a core audience to support.

All you're pointing out is the difference in eras. It's easier for some people to point out which third-party characters got their start back on the NES era back then but it seems like a lot of you don't seem to see that with the later eras simply because the practices are different and there are more competition. No More Heroes should be an example to show you that some series do still get their start on Nintendo consoles and you guys simply didn't catch that.

Okay, but you're comparing 2 icons of the NES verses a character that...existed, on the Wii. Like he said, calling Travis the Wii equivalent of Mega Man/Simon is a massive exaggeration.

It's not about which characters are iconic. It's about how they got their start. Despite Mega Man and Simon being third-party characters, they're still remembered for their debut on the NES and they've been associated with Nintendo consoles every since. Similarly, despite Travis being a third-party character, he's still remember for his debut on the Wii and he's been associated with Nintendo consoles every since. It doesn't matter which one is more iconic. So in the end, it doesn't change what I said.

 

[fogbadge]

If Mega Man and Simon can be seen as NES era characters, then Travis can be seen as a Wii era character. I don't know why is that so hard to understand.



It's not about which characters are iconic. It's about how they got their start. So in the end, it doesn't change what I said.

yes but it's all about wording: saying they are the "equivalent" makes it sound like they are on an equal level. people wont know that what you meant is closer "Like how they debuted on a nintendo console as well"

 

[Wonder Smash]

yes but it's all about wording: saying they are the "equivalent" makes it sound like they are on an equal level. people wont know that what you meant is closer "Like how they debuted on a nintendo console as well"

If you didn't understand, then why not just ask? Even though it shouldn't have been hard to understand anyway if you knew anything about the series but if you didn't, why didn't you just ask first?

 

[fogbadge]

If you didn't understand, then why not just ask? Even though it shouldn't have been hard to understand anyway if you knew anything about the series but if you didn't, why didn't you just ask first?

ah but you see people think they did understand they just came to the wrong answer. So they had no read to ask cause as far as they were concerned they did understand.

 

[Wonder Smash]

ah but you see people think they did understand they just came to the wrong answer. So they had no read to ask cause as far as they were concerned they did understand.

That's when you should stop thinking and just ask to make sure.

Even so, characters from a specific Nintendo era (such as the NES era) and having a history on Nintendo consoles have always been people's main reasons for wanting characters in Smash. It's never been anything more than that, so saying Travis is the Wii equivalent in that case should have been easily understandable.

 

[fogbadge]

Even so, characters from a specific Nintendo era (such as the NES era) and having a history on Nintendo consoles have always been people's main reasons for wanting characters in Smash. It's never been anything more than that, so saying Travis is the Wii equivalent in that case should have been easily understandable.

no it isn’t cause it’s completely lacking in context and intents. See most people want characters in smash cause they like the characters. They history with Nintendo thing is mostly used to justify why they should be in smash or to discredit a character they don’t want. People aren’t going to know what you mean if you don’t say what you mean

 

[Wonder Smash]

no it isn’t cause it’s completely lacking in context and intents. See most people want characters in smash cause they like the characters. They history with Nintendo thing is mostly used to justify why they should be in smash or to discredit a character they don’t want. People aren’t going to know what you mean if you don’t say what you mean

If it was completely lacking in context and intents, then that's even more of a reason why you should have just asked in the first place. You won't know what I mean if you don't ask.

Maybe you just need to start paying attention to what people are saying. I was comparing Travis to Mega Man and Simon, yet some people here were comparing the game series themselves to each other, even though that's clearly not the same thing. Comparing the characters is not an exaggeration at all.

Also, the history on Nintendo has been many people's reasons for wanting characters in Smash, which is still heavily Nintendo-centric, so let's not deny that.

 

[fogbadge]

If it was completely lacking in context and intents, then that's even more of a reason why you should have just asked in the first place. You won't know what I mean if you don't ask.

Maybe you just need to start paying attention to what people are saying. I was comparing Travis to Mega Man and Simon, yet some people here were comparing the game series themselves to each other, even though that's clearly not the same thing. Comparing the characters is not an exaggeration at all.

Also, the history on Nintendo has been many people's reasons for wanting characters in Smash, which is still heavily Nintendo-centric, so let's not deny that.

no you’ve missed the point: without context and intentions people are prone to filling in those gaps. Like I said everyone thought they understood and if they think they understand then they have no reason to ask what you meant cause they think they know what you meant. Of course people won’t know if they don’t ask but as far as they were aware they did know.

for many people characters and series are synonymous. After all many characters wouldn’t be as well loved if it wasn’t for the games they came from. And people were paying attention to what you said they just came to the wrong conclusion. You said that travis was their equivalent it wasn’t until later that you meant was they started in Nintendo and are associated it at one time or the other. You didn’t say that at first so as far as everyone could tell you were saying travis was as big an iconic on the wii as they were on the nes.

nobody denied that. I didn’t even mention that I saw people want what they like

 

[Wonder Smash]

no you’ve missed the point: without context and intentions people are prone to filling in those gaps. Like I said everyone thought they understood and if they think they understand then they have no reason to ask what you meant cause they think they know what you meant. Of course people won’t know if they don’t ask but as far as they were aware they did know.

for many people characters and series are synonymous. After all many characters wouldn’t be as well loved if it wasn’t for the games they came from. And people were paying attention to what you said they just came to the wrong conclusion. You said that travis was their equivalent it wasn’t until later that you meant was they started in Nintendo and are associated it at one time or the other. You didn’t say that at first so as far as everyone could tell you were saying travis was as big an iconic on the wii as they were on the nes.

nobody denied that. I didn’t even mention that I saw people want what they like

I didn't miss the point. People had no business trying to "fill in those gaps". They should have just asked. Simple as that. There are no excuses for that.

I made it clear even in my post to yours that Travis was to the Wii what Mega Man and Simon were to the NES. Even after I made myself more clear, people were still bringing up the "iconic" status and comparing importance of the series so no, they clearly weren't paying attention.

However, I do still think people overreacted either way. Mega Man and Castlevania have long since outgrown their NES roots and have ventured to other genres, styles, consoles, directions, different things. Their NES origins is just one of the things they got, so comparing something to that is not a big deal. No More Heroes may be a cult classic but it's got a heck of a lot of good reviews and got quite a fanbase, clearly one of best games on the Wii. So saying Travis is to the Wii is what Mega Man and Simon were to the NES is not a ridiculous claim like some people say it is. Unless you're just not familiar with No More Heroes, it should be really easy to understand.

 

[Geno Boost]

Min min but better

 

[fogbadge]

I didn't miss the point. People had no business trying to "fill in those gaps". They should have just asked. Simple as that. There are no excuses for that.

I made it clear even in my post to yours that Travis was to the Wii what Mega Man and Simon were to the NES. Even after I made myself more clear, people were still bringing up the "iconic" status and comparing importance of the series so no, they clearly weren't paying attention.

However, I do still think people overreacted either way. Mega Man and Castlevania have long since outgrown their NES roots and have ventured to other genres, styles, consoles, directions, different things. Their NES origins is just one of the things they got, so comparing something to that is not a big deal. No More Heroes may be a cult classic but it's got a heck of a lot of good reviews and got quite a fanbase, clearly one of best games on the Wii. So saying Travis is to the Wii is what Mega Man and Simon were to the NES is not a ridiculous claim like some people say it is. Unless you're just not familiar with No More Heroes, it should be really easy to understand.

that’s not how people work. Often they fill in the gaps automatically. What you said could be taken multiple ways and people took it the wrong way. Ultimately you didn’t say what you meant and people didn’t know what you meant.

but that’s not all they were to the nes. They were among the most beloved games in a library of games so many of which were also like this. How you think about them isn’t going to be how other people think of them. Debuting on on those consoles and being thought of as part of the history isn’t all they were. And I’m not sure it’s all nmh was either.





you know it amazes how everyone just assumes that they can and will always be understood perfectly. Take it from someone who has and will struggle with communication all his life. You will not always be understood, you will make mistakes, people will misunderstand what you say and you will forget all that even when it’s burned into your brain.

 

[Ivander]

Min min but better

sprite has an enormous bust
artwork has her without a bust

I've heard of cover artwork not reflecting their sprite work long before, but this is certainly a new level.

 

[Wonder Smash]

that’s not how people work. Often they fill in the gaps automatically. What you said could be taken multiple ways and people took it the wrong way. Ultimately you didn’t say what you meant and people didn’t know what you meant.

but that’s not all they were to the nes. They were among the most beloved games in a library of games so many of which were also like this. How you think about them isn’t going to be how other people think of them. Debuting on on those consoles and being thought of as part of the history isn’t all they were. And I’m not sure it’s all nmh was either.





you know it amazes how everyone just assumes that they can and will always be understood perfectly. Take it from someone who has and will struggle with communication all his life. You will not always be understood, you will make mistakes, people will misunderstand what you say and you will forget all that even when it’s burned into your brain.

That is how people work. If you think there are gaps that needs to filled up, then something is not clear and that's when they need to ask. They shouldn't take it upon themselves to fill in those gaps, unless they just want to deliberately take it the wrong way.

You're not saying anything new. They were some of the best games on the NES, just like how NMH was one of the best games on the Wii. That's really all there is to it.

Nothing wrong with thinking things should be simple enough for people to understand, especially in this case. Maybe if people weren't so quick to overreact, they would have at least gotten an idea of what I meant, instead of being so far off.

 

[fogbadge]

That is how people work. If you think there are gaps that needs to filled up, then something is not clear and that's when they need to ask. They shouldn't take it upon themselves to fill in those gaps, unless they just want to deliberately take it the wrong way.

You're not saying anything new. They were some of the best games on the NES, just like how NMH was one of the best games on the Wii. That's really all there is to it.

Nothing wrong with thinking things should be simple enough for people to understand, especially in this case. Maybe if people weren't so quick to overreact, they would have at least gotten an idea of what I meant, instead of being so far off.

no. it just isn't. what you're saying there is that they made the conscious to take it that way. they didn't think there were gaps to fill in they just filled them in as they went. that's what i meant by automatically, they made no conscious decision it juts happen.

no. the "best" games on each system is subjective. closet you can get is by looking how well they sold, for example megaman 2 was the 42nd best selling game on the nes. NMH didn't even sell enough to make the list for wii games which means it it was 60th at best. your comparison of them both debuting on nintendo consoles is fine but that's it. a cult classic cannot be compared to genre definers, at least not favourably.

sunshine let me make this as clear as i can: when you are the only one who know what you're talking about then you didn't say it properly. you made a statement which could be taken many ways without saying which way you meant at first. how could people possibly know what you meant? no quote, no "speaking of which" no indication that this declaration is. you made a mistake and everyone made a mistake because of that. so you can either accept that and move cuase that's what happened or you can refuse to accept that and continue to claim that everyone should have understood you when nobody did. and then move on anyway

 

[Wonder Smash]

no. it just isn't. what you're saying there is that they made the conscious to take it that way. they didn't think there were gaps to fill in they just filled them in as they went. that's what i meant by automatically, they made no conscious decision it juts happen.

no. the "best" games on each system is subjective. closet you can get is by looking how well they sold, for example megaman 2 was the 42nd best selling game on the nes. NMH didn't even sell enough to make the list for wii games which means it it was 60th at best. your comparison of them both debuting on nintendo consoles is fine but that's it. a cult classic cannot be compared to genre definers, at least not favourably.

sunshine let me make this as clear as i can: when you are the only one who know what you're talking about then you didn't say it properly. you made a statement which could be taken many ways without saying which way you meant at first. how could people possibly know what you meant? no quote, no "speaking of which" no indication that this declaration is. you made a mistake and everyone made a mistake because of that. so you can either accept that and move cuase that's what happened or you can refuse to accept that and continue to claim that everyone should have understood you when nobody did. and then move on anyway

It's not done automatically. They clearly had more than enough time to ask what somebody meant before actually responding and yet, they chose to respond anyway. So yes, it was a conscious decision on their part.

No More Heroes is a third-party game that was considered one of the best games on the Wii by many people, not just me. That's no different from many people claiming that Mega Man 2, a third-party game, was also one of the best games on the NES. It's the same thing. It doesn't matter if it's not a "genre definer" or super iconic. The point is, the game did enough to gain recognition among the Nintendo fanbase during the Wii era, both being really great games and representing the harder edges of the Wii era. Therefore, It's always been a fondly remembered series even leading all the way up to the most recent games. So again, comparing Travis to Mega Man and Simon (popular third-party characters who roots were from Nintendo consoles) should be easily understandable.

 

[fogbadge]

I think we all knew they were going to pick this one

It's not done automatically. They clearly had more than enough time to ask what somebody meant before actually responding and yet, they chose to respond anyway. So yes, it was a conscious decision on their part.

No More Heroes is a third-party game that was considered one of the best games on the Wii by many people, not just me. That's no different from many people claiming that Mega Man 2, a third-party game, was also one of the best games on the NES. It's the same thing. It doesn't matter if it's not a "genre definer" or super iconic. The point is, the game did enough to gain recognition among the Nintendo fanbase during the Wii era, both being really great games and representing the harder edges of the Wii era. Therefore, It's always been a fondly remembered series even leading all the way up to the most recent games. So again, comparing Travis to Mega Man and Simon (popular third-party characters who roots were from Nintendo consoles) should be easily understandable.

Oh I’m sorry I didn’t realise you had the ability to know what everyone else was thinking.

but it’s a far smaller number of “many” people. A comparison that flimsy can be made to just about anything. And honestly I don’t think NMH is considered one of the best wii games. Certainly not by Nintendo fans the vast majority of them would say things like galaxy Zelda and brawl. See recognition isn’t the same as liking something I recognise plenty of things I don’t like, usually as they cut benefits again. I’ve was in the middle of the Nintendo fandom through out the wii era and barely anyone mentioned it but people never stopped going on about megaman and castlevania. By any way you can even come close measure the best third party games NMH was not that for the wii. I think it was monster hunter. See it’s not a simple thing to understand cause you are the one who understand stands. No other travis fan on this forum seems to think this way

 

[Diddy Kong]

No More Heroes was a good game on the Wii, but the Wii had a fantastic line up. Brawl, Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy, Donkey Kong Country, Brawl, Xenoblade, Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Wii Fit, New Super Mario Bros., I mean, in many ways it's a line up so solid it didn't even need the third party support to deliver top quality.

 

[Sucumbio]

I'd never really heard the term "bloatware" before the Wii.

 

[Perkilator]

I'd never really heard the term "bloatware" before the Wii.

Wait, "bloatware"? Nobody said that here. Are you talking about the dozens of shovelware titles the Wii was plagued with?

 

[Sucumbio]

Wait, "bloatware"? Nobody said that here. Are you talking about the dozens of shovelware titles the Wii was plagued with?

Yeah that one haha