Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah as much as I love it...

Soul Calibur is kinda on death's door.

Please don't die.

Wait, what happened? Did SC6 bomb or something?

 

[Ivander]

Yeah as much as I love it...

Soul Calibur is kinda on death's door.

Please don't die.

Wait, what happened? Did SC6 bomb or something?

I don't think so? I thought Soul Calibur 6 was able to sell 2 million, which is around what Tales of Arise also did as well.

The thing is though is that Namco does not look at Soul Calibur favourably. They messed and rushed Soul Calibur 5 against the developers' will and by what I heard, the director for Soul Calibur 6 had to do alot of convincing to get Namco to allow them to do Soul Calibur 6.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I don't think so? I thought Soul Calibur 6 was able to sell 2 million, which is around what Tales of Arise also did as well.

The thing is though is that Namco does not look at Soul Calibur 6 favourably. They messed and rushed Soul Calibur 5 against the developers' will and by what I heard, the director for Soul Calibur 6 had to do alot of convincing to get Namco to allow them to do Soul Calibur 6.

Ooh, so it's one of THOSE situations...

 

[Ivander]

Ooh, so it's one of THOSE situations...

I mean, by what I heard, Namco did say that Soul Calibur 6 sales were solid, so that might be a point in favor for Soul Calibur. But Namco certainly does not look at the series favourably compared to Tekken and the Tales series.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I bet Harada doesn't like that there's another fighting franchise at Namco, and he can be kind of a butt sometimes.

 

[MasterCheef]

Finally, the next Smash reveal...

Would be amazing if it actually happened.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Fighters Pass 3!

 

[Gengar84]

Fighters Pass 3!

I’d keep buying them for as long as they’d keep making them.

 

[Ivander]

I bet Harada doesn't like that there's another fighting franchise at Namco, and he can be kind of a butt sometimes.

Who knows. Supposedly, Harada did help a bit with Soul Calibur 5, but regardless, he did allow himself to be a created character in Soul Calibur 5's "Quick Battle" Mode and allowed Devil Jin to be a exclusive moveset for Custom characters. He might've also been the one who did that character poll for Soul Calibur 6, but I don't know for certain.

And really, it wouldn't be surprising if that was more Namco's mindset than Harada's in regards to Tekken and Soul Calibur side-by-side. Or maybe it's because besides those two series, they also have the multitude of anime fighters as well.

Fighters Pass 3!

Make it focused entirely on Capcom characters and call it "Nintendo VS Capcom Pass."

 

[Stratos]

Next Super Smash Bros. game for new characters and a new Adventure Mode and if there is one.

 

[Sucumbio]

Sure, but, those were also VERY different types of characters.

The Venn diagram for Maser Chief and Doom Slayer is practically a circle.

Like the kill circle in a good sniper view with giant reticule and a laser dot that moves just right a la RE 4.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Tekken, sure. Soul Calibur? No, Tales is the more popular series, especially in Namco's eyes.

Tales never really had the same level of popularity or recognition that Soul Calibur had. When it comes to fighting games, SC one of the best examples of the weapon-based games.

Tales, on the other hand, is kinda caught up in the Final Fantasies, Dragon Quests, Shin Megami Tenseis, and the like in its genre.

 

[Stratos]

I have a question, is Tekken and Soul Calibur supposed to be the same universe? I write this because Yoshimitsu is in both series.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I have a question, is Tekken and Soul Calibur supposed to be the same universe? I write this because Yoshimitsu is in both series.

I don't think it was ever officially stated but I do think they are. Soul Calibur takes place in the 16th century, so its events would have no effect on Tekken, which has more of a modern setting.

 

[Stratos]

Apart from the Super Smash Bros. series,other fighting games series that are considered popular are Tekken, Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat

 

[Sucumbio]

And melty blood and Dead or Alive I think

 

[Opossum]

Tales never really had the same level of popularity or recognition that Soul Calibur had. When it comes to fighting games, SC one of the best examples of the weapon-based games.

Tales, on the other hand, is kinda caught up in the Final Fantasies, Dragon Quests, Shin Megami Tenseis, and the like in its genre.

I mean...the Tales series sales estimates are at just under 26 million units sold, while Soul Calibur only has a lifetime total of 17 million units. That's an almost ten million units sales difference. If Soul Calibur were the more popular of the two, the sales would probably show it.

 

[Gengar84]

Apart from the Super Smash Bros. series,other fighting games series that are considered popular are Tekken, Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat

I feel like Killer Instinct is right on the edge of being big. It was very popular back in the 90’s and it’s revival in 2013 was a lot more successful than anyone expected given its low budget. I feel like a new game with a higher budget could potentially elevate the series to nearly the level of the other major fighting games listed above. I think it could at least easily be on par with games like Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, and Dead or Alive.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I mean...the Tales series sales estimates are at just under 26 million units sold, while Soul Calibur only has a lifetime total of 17 million units. That's an almost ten million units sales difference. If Soul Calibur were the more popular of the two, the sales would probably show it.

Potentially stupid question: would Tales having more games than Soul Caliber have anything to do with that?

 

[Opossum]

Potentially stupid question: would Tales having more games than Soul Caliber have anything to do with that?

If anything it would just further prove the point. If it had a lot more games, it likely has the sales to warrant said games, while Soul Calibur takes pretty lengthy hiatuses between titles as of late.

 

[fogbadge]

Potentially stupid question: would Tales having more games than Soul Caliber have anything to do with that?

not quite. animal crossing has had less games than fire emblem but has sold far more

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Potentially stupid question: would Tales having more games than Soul Caliber have anything to do with that?

Possibly.

It's even possible that the highest selling Soul Calibur had outsold the highest selling Tales game.

But Tales seems to be a very healthy franchise with consistent releases that seem to be profitable and culturally relevant.

Tales is doing something that Soul Calibur isn't. It may have a dedicated team or it may just be more profitable despite lower individual sales.

Tales just seems to be in a better state in general.

 

[Sucumbio]

SC was popular during SC2 era like when it was on GameCube ... But Tales overtook any popularity contest they had (lol).

 

[Gengar84]

I honestly love both Soul Calibur and Tales. I’d be really hyped to see Nightmare, Astaroth, Velvet , or Shionne in Smash. I think a pairing of Alphen and Shionne as a transform style tag duo compliment each other really well and would make for an awesome Smash character. Velvet is just an awesome character in general with a really unique weapon and cool demon arm. Astaroth is probably never happening but he’s always been my main in Soul Calibur and we don’t have many super heavyweights or axe weilders. Nightmare is also awesome and is basically the face of the series, pretty much Soul Calibur’s equivalent to Scorpion from Mortal Kombat.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I mean...the Tales series sales estimates are at just under 26 million units sold, while Soul Calibur only has a lifetime total of 17 million units. That's an almost ten million units sales difference. If Soul Calibur were the more popular of the two, the sales would probably show it.

But at the same time, Tales has more games in its series compared to Soul Calibur and has been going on much longer.

Though still, the fact that Soul Calibur managed to sell that much despite not having as many games is very impressive. Each main game was more successful than a Tales game (at least most of the time).

If anything it would just further prove the point. If it had a lot more games, it likely has the sales to warrant said games, while Soul Calibur takes pretty lengthy hiatuses between titles as of late.

There can be many different reasons for a series' hiatuses and it could have nothing to do with sales.

 

[Ivander]

There can be many different reasons for a series' hiatuses and it could have nothing to do with sales.

In Soulcalibur's case, it's the higher-ups at Namco not looking favourably at it, since they certainly didn't support the SCV devs and needed some major convincing to even allow SCVI. Whereas even after the Tales series had the one game that was getting alot of backlash, Namco had next to no issue doing another game.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Potentially stupid question: would Tales having more games than Soul Caliber have anything to do with that?

Yeah, I think it does. Soul Calibur games tend to sell over a million copies where as there's been some cases where Tales games don't even reach that.

In Soulcalibur's case, it's the higher-ups at Namco not looking favourably at it, since they certainly didn't support the SCV devs and needed some major convincing to even allow SCVI. Whereas even after the Tales series had the one game that was getting alot of backlash, Namco had next to no issue doing another game.

Whatever the case was, it couldn't have been because the series wasn't selling well. It's shown to be constant success for Namco for pretty much the whole series. So I just see that as Namco making a weird and very bad decision in that case.

 

[Ivander]

Whatever the case was, it couldn't have been because the series wasn't selling well.

It might have been for SCVI, considering Soulcalibur 5 did nowhere near as good as Soulcalibur 4. And Soulcalibur 4's reception did not help either, what with RNG Insta-kills, very bad online, a character creator that made changed stats mandatory, incredibly slow gameplay, back when fighting games were trying to slow down the fighting gameplay for beginners like what Brawl did,

And Namco certainly has not been supportive with the series after SCIV.

 

[Wonder Smash]

It might have been for SCVI, considering Soulcalibur 5 did nowhere near as good as Soulcalibur 4. And Soulcalibur 4's reception did not help either, what with RNG Insta-kills, very bad online, a character creator that made changed stats mandatory, incredibly slow gameplay, back when fighting games were trying to slow down the fighting gameplay for beginners like what Brawl did,

And Namco certainly has not been supportive with the series after SCIV.

Both games have been a success for Namco, with SCIV actually having a lot of positive reviews and awards. Doesn't sound like a bad reception at all.

Also, SCVI has actually done better than V and even has more DLC content. It's fair to say that Namco definitely showed their support for SC this time.

 

[Quillion]

Make it focused entirely on Capcom characters and call it "Nintendo VS Capcom Pass."

Nintendo vs Capcom needs to be its own game tho.

 

[Ivander]

Both games have been a success for Namco, with SCIV actually having a lot of positive reviews and awards. Doesn't sound like a bad reception at all.

Much like Final Fantasy XIII and Resident Evil 5 and 6? You know, the games that got a lot of positive reviews and awards as well, despite being panned by fans down to the earth's core? The games that are practically used as examples to not trust reviews by online reviewers?
I was there when Soul Calibur IV was released, I was there waiting with other fans of the series and I can tell you that alot of fans were not happy, especially after:
-having next to no content and coming after the very content-filled Soulcalibur III.
-the custom character maker being a downgrade from the SCIII character maker.
-the online being not just bad, but having so many characters with high HP and other stats. especially when combined with the very slow gameplay.
-the armor system being so unpredictable that you could start the next round, have an armor piece break right away despite not blinking red, than get insta-killed by the finisher moves.
-the two new and original characters being so overpowered compared to the rest of the cast. And no, not Darth Vader, Yoda or Starkiller.

And yeah, SCVI did do better. Because the developers asked desperately for Namco to be serious with the game. They did take it seriously this time and it succeeded, whereas SCV, the developers were serious about the game, but Namco gave no *****, hence the lack of character DLC content aside from one which was a pre-order bonus character.

 

[Quillion]

Much like Final Fantasy XIII and Resident Evil 5 and 6? You know, the games that got a lot of positive reviews and awards as well, despite being panned by fans down to the earth's core? The games that are practically used as examples to not trust reviews by online reviewers?
I was there when Soul Calibur IV was released, I was there waiting with other fans of the series and I can tell you that alot of fans were not happy, especially after:
-having next to no content and coming after the very content-filled Soulcalibur III.
-the custom character maker being a downgrade from the SCIII character maker.
-the online being not just bad, but having so many characters with high HP and other stats. especially when combined with the very slow gameplay.
-the armor system being so unpredictable that you could start the next round, have an armor piece break right away despite not blinking red, than get insta-killed by the finisher moves.
-the two new and original characters being so overpowered compared to the rest of the cast. And no, not Darth Vader, Yoda or Starkiller.

And yeah, SCVI did do better. Because the developers asked desperately for Namco to be serious with the game. They did take it seriously this time and it succeeded, whereas SCV, the developers were serious about the game, but Namco gave no *****, hence the lack of character DLC content aside from one which was a pre-order bonus character.

It'll help your case if you can go back in time and find internet threads that show how much SC fans hated 4.

 

[Ivander]

It'll help your case if you can go back in time and find internet threads that show how much SC fans hated 4.

If only Wayback Machine were that generous, but that said, I was on 8wayrun, which as far as I'm aware, is the biggest Soulcalibur fansite. If I had to compare the anger of fans back then, it was quite similar to Brawl's early release, except you could replace the random tripping with the random armor-break to insta-kill.

And compared to Brawl, where it's reception slowly got more favourable overtime, I still only see talk mainly about Soulcalibur 2 and 3, whereas 4 only gets a mention or two and it's mostly when the Star Wars guest characters get brought up, since yeah, those were a thing.

 

[Quillion]

If only Wayback Machine were that generous, but that said, I was on 8wayrun, which as far as I'm aware, is the biggest Soulcalibur fansite. If I had to compare the anger of fans back then, it was quite similar to Brawl's early release, except you could replace the random tripping with the random armor-break to insta-kill.

And compared to Brawl, where it's reception slowly got more favourable overtime, I still only see talk mainly about Soulcalibur 2 and 3, whereas 4 only gets a mention or two and it's mostly when the Star Wars guest characters get brought up, since yeah, those were a thing.

Well, I guess this is the closest thing I can find with a Google search.

I said this over here, but I think a "Soul of the Master Sword" Zelda fighting game from Bamco could work as a neat counterpart to Pokkén, especially since it's close-to-impossible for mainline Soulcalibur to ever be on Nintendo platforms again.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Fighters Pass 3!

• Goku (Dragon Ball/Shonen Jump)
• Shrek (Shrek/DreamWorks)
• Thanos (The Avengers/Marvel Comics)
• Tony Hawk (Tony Hawk Pro Skater/Activision)
• James Bond (007/MGM)
• Squidward Tentacles (SpongeBob SquarePants/Nickelodeon)
• Blanc/White Heart (Neptunia/Compile Heart)

 

[Wonder Smash]

Much like Final Fantasy XIII and Resident Evil 5 and 6? You know, the games that got a lot of positive reviews and awards as well, despite being panned by fans down to the earth's core? The games that are practically used as examples to not trust reviews by online reviewers?

It seems more like fans just simply liked the previous SC game better, not that they hated SC4. Some fans even admitted that they still liked it.

Though you do got some people that tend to exaggerate or overreact to things. I wouldn't take them seriously.

I was there when Soul Calibur IV was released, I was there waiting with other fans of the series and I can tell you that alot of fans were not happy, especially after:
-having next to no content and coming after the very content-filled Soulcalibur III.
-the custom character maker being a downgrade from the SCIII character maker.
-the online being not just bad, but having so many characters with high HP and other stats. especially when combined with the very slow gameplay.
-the armor system being so unpredictable that you could start the next round, have an armor piece break right away despite not blinking red, than get insta-killed by the finisher moves.
-the two new and original characters being so overpowered compared to the rest of the cast. And no, not Darth Vader, Yoda or Starkiller.

Well, it kind of tells you something that despite all this, the game still sold well enough to warrant a sequel. With a game having both positive reviews and good sales, fans' negative reception doesn't really do any real damage to a series' success. Soul Calibur's popularity is just way too much for that.

 

[HyperSomari64]

And no, not Darth Vader, Yoda or Starkiller.

A SC game without guest characters it's like a Smash game without the Mario representation.

 

[Ivander]

A SC game without guest characters it's like a Smash game without the Mario representation.

They're called Soul Edge, Soul Calibur and Soul Calibur 3. And Soul Calibur 3 was great.

 

[Geno Boost]

I bet Harada doesn't like that there's another fighting franchise at Namco, and he can be kind of a butt sometimes.

I guess this is basically this is the same case with Excite and F-Zero series in comparison to Mario Kart with Nintendo

Make it focused entirely on Capcom characters and call it "Nintendo VS Capcom Pass."

If it means getting 5 or 6 more capcom rep and none of them is from Darkstalkers I would be disappointed.

 

[fogbadge]

Much like Final Fantasy XIII and Resident Evil 5 and 6? You know, the games that got a lot of positive reviews and awards as well, despite being panned by fans down to the earth's core? The games that are practically used as examples to not trust reviews by online reviewers?
I was there when Soul Calibur IV was released, I was there waiting with other fans of the series and I can tell you that alot of fans were not happy, especially after:
-having next to no content and coming after the very content-filled Soulcalibur III.
-the custom character maker being a downgrade from the SCIII character maker.
-the online being not just bad, but having so many characters with high HP and other stats. especially when combined with the very slow gameplay.
-the armor system being so unpredictable that you could start the next round, have an armor piece break right away despite not blinking red, than get insta-killed by the finisher moves.
-the two new and original characters being so overpowered compared to the rest of the cast. And no, not Darth Vader, Yoda or Starkiller.

And yeah, SCVI did do better. Because the developers asked desperately for Namco to be serious with the game. They did take it seriously this time and it succeeded, whereas SCV, the developers were serious about the game, but Namco gave no *****, hence the lack of character DLC content aside from one which was a pre-order bonus character.

i think game companies do judge success by sales rather than fan reactions