Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

Spoiler

That's something I suspected myself.

But really, cartoonifying a real-life animal is honestly every bit as boring as sticking a face on an inanimate object, if not more so. At least with the latter, they need to put in the work to make it look like a living creature. For the former, wow they just bought a wildlife photography book and made their own stylized art of that. A five-year old can do that too.

Slight tangent, but remember Temtem? That game has a similar problem to what you're describing: going all in on creatures based on real animals rather than getting creative. Granted, that may be a side effect of the game's... possibly spiteful nature (forgive me if I sound rude, but it feels like Temtem only exists because a bunch of angry Pokemon fans wanted to prove they could make a better Pokemon game than the actual Pokemon devs, but ended up with their own problems), but you get what I mean.

 

[Quillion]

Slight tangent, but remember Temtem? That game has a similar problem to what you're describing: going all in on creatures based on real animals rather than getting creative. Granted, that may be a side effect of the game's... possibly spiteful nature (forgive me if I sound rude, but it feels like Temtem only exists because a bunch of angry Pokemon fans wanted to prove they could make a better Pokemon game than the actual Pokemon devs, but ended up with their own problems), but you get what I mean.

Reminds me of how a lot of recent knockback-based platform fighters feel the need to 1:1 recreate Melee's advanced techniques instead of implementing their functions in a more intuitive manner that have greater emergent potential.

Seriously, even the biggest Super Metroid devotee who doesn't care for any other 2D game in that series wouldn't want the whole Metroidvania genre to recreate Super's overly weighty movement physics.

 

[fogbadge]

Just a head's up, we're already getting Pokemon leaks.

Spoiler

Just gonna rip off the band-aid: Sprigatito IS bipedal.

whats the source?

 

[dream1ng]

Just a head's up, we're already getting Pokemon leaks.

Spoiler

Just gonna rip off the band-aid: Sprigatito IS bipedal.

****

Spoiler: Short Rant

Seriously, what the absolute hell is with entitled Pokéfans ******** about Starters being bipedal?

I consider that complaint as ridiculous as complaining about Sonic's green eyes, and that complaint started as a joke before somehow morphing into an unironic complaint.

I almost feel that if they move away from starters being bipedal, they'll complain about the Starters being tetrapods or vertebrates.

Spoiler

It's not that it's inherently bad or worthy of actual vitriol, it's just disappointing because it's becoming very overdone, and there's such opportunity for more variety among creatures that are largely based on animals... and many animals are quadrupeds.

But GF/TPC probably has market research that bears out the popularity of that style.

 

[fogbadge]

This the same leaker from gen 8 and legends?

 

[chocolatejr9]

whats the source?

Somebody named Riddle Khu. Apparently, they got stuff right about Arceus, BDSP, and some other games, so they seem legit.

****

Spoiler

It's not that it's inherently bad or worthy of actual vitriol, it's just disappointing because it's becoming very overdone, and there's such opportunity for more variety among creatures that are largely based on animals... and many animals are quadrupeds.

But GF/TPC probably has market research that bears out the popularity of that style.

Yeah, apparently the non-bipedal starters are the least popular ones of each gen? I don't have a source for that, though.

 

[Quillion]

dream1ng :

Spoiler

Would you complain that a sword wielder being the protagonist of every Final Fantasy is overdone when there are a lot of other weapon types to choose from?

 

[fogbadge]

Somebody named Riddle Khu. Apparently, they got stuff right about Arceus, BDSP, and some other games, so they seem legit.

Yeah, apparently the non-bipedal starters are the least popular ones of each gen? I don't have a source for that, though.

well I know there have been plenty of accurate leaks in the past, like sobbles spy theme and gigantimaxing

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Probably the most boring type of question but who do you guys want the most to be in the next game?, I mean like the top of all you wishes sinces most people has more than one character they want.

Mine would probably be Dante, Sol is close but Dante it's most likely.

 

[fogbadge]

Probably the most boring type of question but who do you guys want the most to be in the next game?, I mean like the top of all you wishes sinces most people has more than one character they want.

Mine would probably be Dante, Sol is close but Dante it's most likely.

toad

 

[Quillion]

Probably the most boring type of question but who do you guys want the most to be in the next game?, I mean like the top of all you wishes sinces most people has more than one character they want.

Mine would probably be Dante, Sol is close but Dante it's most likely.

Well, if we're talking characters...

Spoiler

I'm completely concerned with how they can improve/differentiate the core gameplay.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Three Houses felt like it ran out of budget in several areas. I'm not surprised if Koei Tecmo wanted to expand upon it further.

I appreciate 3H's effort a lot, but maybe they shouldn't have blown the budget on voice acting...

Wouldn't be surprised if Koei Tecmo does the Persona 5 Royal thing and releases an extensive update to 3H that can't be contained in DLC and is forced to be a new release entirely.

I'd take a Three Houses DLC for a Golden Ending, even if that's another 29€ or something.

The plot deserves just that. I felt the same with Breath of the Wild honestly.

It's ironic how sometimes the spin off games deliver the story better than the main game. Okay, with Zelda it's debatable. But you really see with Three Hopes that Three Houses was too ambitious for its own good.

 

[dream1ng]

dream1ng :

Spoiler

Would you complain that a sword wielder being the protagonist of every Final Fantasy is overdone when there are a lot of other weapon types to choose from?

That's a common complaint with FE protags, isn't it?

 

[Ivander]

Yeah, apparently the non-bipedal starters are the least popular ones of each gen? I don't have a source for that, though.

Nope. Serperior was actually the most popular Evo starter of Gen 5 and that one has no legs. And while Primarina is considered the least popular out of the 3 Evo Starters of Gen 7, it is still pretty popular, as it placed 8th place out of all Alola Pokemon. And Torterra is also decently popular too.

Edit: Also, it should be noted that almost all of the Grass Starters in general(their first stage) tend to be very popular, sometimes more than their fully Evolved forms. I think the only one that didn't reach the Top 30 in it's Gen was Chespin from Gen 6.

 

[dream1ng]

Nope. Serperior was actually the most popular Evo starter of Gen 5 and that one has no legs. And while Primarina is considered the least popular out of the 3 Evo Starters of Gen 7, it is still pretty popular, as it placed 8th place out of all Alola Pokemon.

Overall though, I think that trend is pretty strong. Venusaur the least popular in Gen 1, Meganium in Gen 2, Swampert in Gen 3 (I think), Torterra in Gen 4, Primarina in Gen 7, and I guess Gen 5 is the odd one out, but it's possible by then the Fire/Fighting fatigue had set in, they haven't done that combo since. Even when they had a fire wrestler.

Then on the other hand, the most popular starters, like Charizard, Blastoise, Blaziken, Sceptile, Greninja, Decidueye, etc. are all bipedals.

 

[Ivander]

Overall though, I think that trend is pretty strong. Venusaur the least popular in Gen 1, Meganium in Gen 2, Swampert in Gen 3 (I think), Torterra in Gen 4, Primarina in Gen 7, and I guess Gen 5 is the odd one out, but it's possible by then the Fire/Fighting fatigue had set in, they haven't done that combo since. Even when they had a fire wrestler.

Sort of on Gen 2. Meganium is the least popular, but Typlosion is the most popular and it's semi-biped. It can stand bipedal, but it runs on all fours.

Edit: Samurott also counts as semi-biped, as it's shown to normally stand on all fours, but when it's using it's swords, it fights bipedal.

 

[dream1ng]

Sort of on Gen 2. Meganium is the least popular, but Typlosion is the most popular and it's semi-biped. It can stand bipedal, but it runs on all fours.

Yeah but perception is going to be informed by the games and the merch and the typical depictions, which in the Gen 2 days, limited non-mostly-static movement primarily to the show, in which Typhlosion's role was limited. Some people are even still surprised when it doesn't always have fire coming out of its back.

And even still, none of the Gen 2 starters are that popular among starters.

Edit: Samurott also counts as semi-biped, as it's shown to normally stand on all four, but when it's using it's swords, it fights bipedal.

Right, but Samurott isn't the most popular in its gen.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

dream1ng :

Spoiler

Would you complain that a sword wielder being the protagonist of every Final Fantasy is overdone when there are a lot of other weapon types to choose from?

I mean, most FF protags has other abilities rather than just use their swords (Terra, Clive), and also there are characters who very weird ones to the point that you can't actually call them a sword (Lightning and Squall).

 

[Diddy Kong]

Probably the most boring type of question but who do you guys want the most to be in the next game?, I mean like the top of all you wishes sinces most people has more than one character they want.

Mine would probably be Dante, Sol is close but Dante it's most likely.

I can't really choose between Isaac (Golden Sun), Dixie Kong and Impa. Honestly I'd be perfectly content with just one of them. But I don't actually expect these characters. I kinda do expect a Zelda newcomer and a DKC newcomer in the form of Cranky Kong, but I think Isaac won't make it unless Golden Sun gets a grand revival.

That's a common complaint with FE protags, isn't it?

The answer is very simple: add the most important main characters without a sword. Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

The answer is very simple: add the most important main characters without a sword. Dimitri, Edelgard and Claude.

Or since Byleth already has all their weapons add the characters that a lot of people simps for them: Tiki and Lyn (sure Lyn also has a sword but her fighting style is very different since her sword is more like a rapier)

 

[Ivander]

And even still, none of the Gen 2 starters are that popular among starters.

Nope. Typlosion was more popular than Gen 4's highest Starter Evo and Gen 5 and 8's highest Starters and was tied with Sceptile(although Sciptile had more votes) and Piplup(who had lower votes). Typlosion was the 4th most popular Johto Pokemon, behind Umbreon, Tyranitar and Lugia.

Or since Byleth already has all their weapons add the characters that a lot of people simps for them: Tiki and Lyn (sure Lyn also has a sword but her fighting style is very different since her sword is more like a rapier)

More like a katana than a rapier.

 

[dream1ng]

Nope. Typlosion was more popular than Gen 4's highest Starter Evo and Gen 5 and 8's highest Starters and was tied with Sceptile(although Sciptile had more votes) and Piplup(who had lower votes). Typlosion was the 4th most popular Johto Pokemon, behind Umbreon, Tyranitar and Lugia.

Ok. If Gen 2's most popular starter is around the middle compared to the other most popular starters, I stand by my point. But my argument wasn't about this, it was about bi/quadrupeds.

 

[Ivander]

Ok. If Gen 2's most popular starter is around the middle compared to the other most popular starters, I stand by my point. But my argument wasn't about this, it was about bi/quadrupeds.

I know, but saying none of the Gen 2 Pokemon were popular was wrong which was what I was pointing out. If all the votes are counted for Starter Pokemon, Typlosion is the 7th most popular Starter behind Charizard, Greninja, Rowlet, Bulbasaur, Decideye and Sceptile.

And even then, the Pokemon anime does absolutely help for Smash Bros. depictions of characters, no matter how old they are.
-Charizard has Seismic Toss, a move that Ash's Charizard has constantly used in the anime. And that was mostly during the old Pokemon anime during Gen 1 and 2.
-Lucario is based off of the Lucario from Mystery of Mew, which was released in 2005. And yet despite it being a anime movie in 2005, in 2014 for Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS, they actually got the voice actor who voiced Lucario in that movie to play him in Smash Bros.
-Greninja gets the Ash-Greninja form for it's Final Smash.

And even if the anime didn't tie into Smash depictions, as Pokemon Arceus shows, Typlosion still goes onto all 4 of it's feet for some attacks, like Quick Attack, meaning that Typlosion still runs and does dash attacks with all 4 of it's feet. Typlosion being semi-biped/quadruped is canon to the games, meaning it can somewhat fill in the quadruped role for a Pokemon character. And it is the 7th most popular Starter.

 

[Quillion]

That's a common complaint with FE protags, isn't it?

But do you see Fire Emblem fans or Final Fantasy fans complain about it in their respective series?

I mean, most FF protags has other abilities rather than just use their swords (Terra, Clive), and also there are characters who very weird ones to the point that you can't actually call them a sword (Lightning and Squall).

Likewise, there's a lot more to starters than how much feet they stand on. Might as well make them tripedal or octopedal for variety and creativity.

Still, I wish Smash's selection of Pokémon didn't focus so much on them as of late.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

But do you see Fire Emblem fans or Final Fantasy fans complain about it in their respective series?

Well at least respecting their representation in Smash I think FF fans complains more about the fact that the only game represented in the game is FF7 lol.

 

[Quillion]

Well at least respecting their representation in Smash I think FF fans complains more about the fact that the only game represented in the game is FF7 lol.

I kinda complain about that myself. Square Enix allows representation of multiple Dragon Quest titles, but decides to exacerbate FF7 favoritism in Smash.

I feel like the frontrunners in the FF1-6 era are Cecil and Terra. Cecil since he's marketed the most among the early protagonists, and Terra just seems to be the most popular among fans among the early protagonists.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I kinda complain about that myself. Square Enix allows representation of multiple Dragon Quest titles, but decides to exacerbate FF7 favoritism in Smash.

I feel like the frontrunners in the FF1-6 era are Cecil and Terra. Cecil since he's marketed the most among the early protagonists, and Terra just seems to be the most popular among fans among the early protagonists.

Yeah I also think any of the two would work, maybe maybe the Warrior of Light just for the retro representation. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the rare case Square allows the use of Cloud and maybe Sephiroth they would restrain themselves a little more maybe including a pair of additional songs and more pngs in the case that the spirits continue being a thing.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I kinda complain about that myself. Square Enix allows representation of multiple Dragon Quest titles, but decides to exacerbate FF7 favoritism in Smash.

I feel like the frontrunners in the FF1-6 era are Cecil and Terra. Cecil since he's marketed the most among the early protagonists, and Terra just seems to be the most popular among fans among the early protagonists.

I still think one of the SNES games should get the FF7R treatment...

 

[Quillion]

Yeah I also think any of the two would work, maybe maybe the Warrior of Light just for the retro representation. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the rare case Square allows the use of Cloud and maybe Sephiroth they would restrain themselves a little more maybe including a pair of additional songs and more pngs in the case that the spirits continue being a thing.

I don't recall; does Warrior of Light represent FF1 in anything other than Dissidia-based spin-offs? (For example, Theatrhythm is definitely a Dissidia-based spin-off)

I still think one of the SNES games should get the FF7R treatment...

Eh, make it the RE1make treatment. Too much would be lost if they take even the RE2make treatment, let alone the FF7R treatment.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Sqaure Enix would be smart to do a full blown 2D-HD remake of FFVi, but this is the same company that can't even be bothered to put the Pixel Remasters on Switch despite the easy money that would make, so who knows if it'll ever happen.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Sqaure Enix would be smart to do a full blown 2D-HD remake of FFVi, but this is the same company that can't even be bothered to put the Pixel Remasters on Switch despite the easy money that would make, so who knows if it'll ever happen.

Yeah, their Switch support has been very inconsistant, I'm beginning to notice...

 

[JOJONumber691]

Sqaure Enix would be smart to do a full blown 2D-HD remake of FFVi, but this is the same company that can't even be bothered to put the Pixel Remasters on Switch despite the easy money that would make, so who knows if it'll ever happen.

Square Enix is dumb so they’ll probably do it and make it an NFT lmao.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I don't recall; does Warrior of Light represent FF1 in anything other than Dissidia-based spin-offs? (For example, Theatrhythm is definitely a Dissidia-based spin-off)

I mean the WoL is more a title than anything, so you can say it also works for things like Final Fantasy The 4 Heroes of Light has example (even if character-wise they aren't the same):

Eh, make it the RE1make treatment. Too much would be lost if they take even the RE2make treatment, let alone the FF7R treatment.

Isn't like most of the SNES games had sucha big story to feel the lose of anything (maybe just FF6) and I like to think the "remakes" more like retellings that tries to make a somewhat different story using the same settings. I like that, I feel it interesing and unlike more people thing I don't think it affects the original story.

 

[Quillion]

Sqaure Enix would be smart to do a full blown 2D-HD remake of FFVi, but this is the same company that can't even be bothered to put the Pixel Remasters on Switch despite the easy money that would make, so who knows if it'll ever happen.

The Bravely team is busy doing the HD-2D remake of DQ3 right now, and they just released Triangle Strategy. I'm sure they'll get to any of the Nintendo-era Final Fantasy games eventually.

That said, Pixel Remaster not being on console to begin with is absolutely baffling. Also, at least give us an option to have the GBA content...

Yeah, their Switch support has been very inconsistant, I'm beginning to notice...

Meh, it's full of ports; not that different from any other 3rd party company supporting the Switch.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Meh, it's full of ports; not that different from any other 3rd party company supporting the Switch.

Even if of course have modern games is nice I don't see the ports has a bad thing, tbh I want more ports of certain games that are hard to find (at least where I live) like Muramasa the Demon Blade, Odin Sphere (especially if is the remaster), The King of Fighters XI (especially if is the PS2 ver) or Terranigma (and all the saga of The Heaven and The Earth tbh).

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think the Switch's success caught SE by surprise and unlike Capcom or even Konami, they never really adjusted their strategy that much to better take advantage of it outside making sure DQXI and DQXII would be on the console and giving timed exclusivity to Octopath and Triangle Strategy. Stuff like cloud versions of Kingdom Hearts reeks of them knowing the system was too popular to not put some sort of mainline KH games on there, but not wanting to put that many resources into it (and events like the Avengers failing to recoup its major costs may have affected decisions on certain game investments to boot).

 

[Quillion]

I think the Switch's success caught SE by surprise and unlike Capcom or even Konami, they never really adjusted their strategy that much to better take advantage of it outside making sure DQXI and DQXII would be on the console and giving timed exclusivity to Octopath and Triangle Strategy. Stuff like cloud versions of Kingdom Hearts reeks of them knowing the system was too popular to not put some sort of mainline KH games on there, but not wanting to put that many resources into it (and events like the Avengers failing to recoup its major costs may have affected decisions on certain game investments to boot).

I feel like the KH fiasco was due to Squeenix feeling the Switch was on its way out, but they needed to capitalize on Sora being in Smash anyway.

Besides, the Switch got FF10 and FF12 as part of their absolute salvo of Final Fantasy for the Switch, which itself was likely partly due to them being able to easily port the PC versions of those games to other platforms.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I think KH3 on Cloud makes a little sense, but they didn't wanted to sell the games by separated so they also throw 1.5 and 2.5 in the mix even if the console can handle them with ease without the needing of putting them outside cloud.

 

[Quillion]

I think KH3 on Cloud makes a little sense, but they didn't wanted to sell the games by separated so they also throw 1.5 and 2.5 in the mix even if the console can handle them with ease without putting them outside cloud.

I think most people will agree that only KH3 on cloud was justifiable.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Funnily enough, the one release that sums up the odd contemporary relationship between Nintendo and Square Enix (as well as the latter's hit-and-miss competence) is Collection of Mana, which is a Switch exclusive... because it turned out Nintendo still had the source code to the SNES version of Trials of Mana and SE didn't.