Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

Rubbish or not, that's still vague enough to give Nintendo an incredible amount of leeway in who constitutes as having or not having "Nintendo DNA".

Apparently some companies will have enough Nintendo DNA to work on their IP, often for years, but lack the DNA to be bought and/or saved by them. It's really just an amorphous term to be used at their convenience which stands in the place of more business-related concerns.

well look at this way, the last company they bought had only been making games for them for a few years. and not even hal and game freak can claim that

 

[Chuderz]

I'd imagine it'd be much more beneficial for Sony to acquire the core Konami IP of Metal Gear, Silent Hill, and Castlevania. I could even see them letting Konami retain the rights to use those properties for their pachinko nonsense. The other franchises such as Bomberman, Frogger and Contra seem more in line with what Konami is already focused on doing and would hypothetically want to pursue after getting a fat paycheck for letting go of those stationary IPs which is to pursue lower-budget titles, soccer simulator and pachinko nonsense.

It'd be for the best for these franchises if Sony got them. The only worrisome thing about it is what it means for Smash. That's Nintendo's needlessly stupid priorities though. I'm hoping they're mostly skipping EVO to establish more leverage while they bring their first-party circuit into fruition.

I still think Nintendo should acquire SEGA. The only thing that'd piss me off about it would be knowing they'd bring an extremely antagonistic relationship to the awesome Sonic modding scene. It'd still bring major value to Nintendo for a multitude of reasons.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I hope Sony won't buy SEGA..

I don't want to imagine Sony-exclusive Sonic games...

That would actually be better for Sonic as a Franchise because now Sonic Team has one in house platform to worry about, which would then allow for the quality of future Sonic Games to DRAMATICALLY improve.

 

[osby]

I still think Nintendo should acquire SEGA.

Yeah, no, thanks.

SEGA, for all its faults, makes a big effort to publish games on all consoles, including PC. The last thing I want is fewer people being able to enjoy my favorite games because they are stuck on (underpowered) Nintendo consoles.

Also, I'm begging people to notice that SEGA makes games other than Sonic.

 

[dream1ng]

I don't want any of the big third-parties to get bought out. Well maybe Konami and Level-5 because they're squandering themselves, but that's it. The more multi-plats the better.

But if Nintendo did buy Sega, that'd be quite a nice expansion to the back catalogue. I wouldn't hate that. Get Genesis and Saturn (and Master System and Game Gear and arcade stuff) on the back catalogue service in perpetuity. I'd include Dreamcast but we can't even get Gamecube games.

The hypothetical buyer is a bit moot though, because whoever buys Sega isn't going to revive the old series, they're just going to continue with the current half-dozen which are still somewhat profitable. Though Sony buying them wouldn't mean good things for Smash.

 

[Idon]

Dragalia Lost: dies

Fire Emblem Heroes, without pause:
"Ayo do yall wanna see a cow girl shred on the bass"

 

[osby]

Neither Nintendo nor Sony is any good at keeping smaller franchises alive, although the former is getting better at it. You should be against them buying new studios left and right because it's just going to result in more series getting left behind.

Also, you know, monopolies are objectively bad but apparently, a lot of people are okay with them because a minuscule chance to improve a single game.

 

[Slime Scholar]

I still think Nintendo should acquire SEGA. The only thing that'd piss me off about it would be knowing they'd bring an extremely antagonistic relationship to the awesome Sonic modding scene. It'd still bring major value to Nintendo for a multitude of reasons.

Some of SEGA's most successful franchises right now are primarily PC games handled by Western studios, so if they were to be acquired (which I'm hoping they aren't) Nintendo may be the worst possible fit.

 

[fogbadge]

Neither Nintendo nor Sony is any good at keeping smaller franchises alive, although the former is getting better at it. You should be against them buying new studios left and right because it's just going to result in more series getting left behind.

Also, you know, monopolies are objectively bad but apparently, a lot of people are okay with them because a minuscule chance to improve a single game.

in fairness a lot of nintendos dormant franchises are made by other companies so its not exclusively their fault

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Losing all the quality Sonic fan games that Sega more or less allows that Nintendo would shut down with much more frequency if they owned the IP? That possibility alone is enough to turn me off of the idea of the latter owning Sega.

 

[Simnm]

Losing all the quality Sonic fan games that Sega more or less allows that Nintendo would shut down with much more frequency if they owned the IP? That possibility alone is enough to turn me off of the idea of the latter owning Sega.

I mean its either that or keep having mediocre sonic games

 

[Gengar84]

Assuming nothing else changes, Nintendo buying SEGA would probably lead me to buy an X-Box over a PlayStation this Gen. Mainline Persona essentially being exclusive to PlayStation is one of the main selling points of the console for me. It would suck missing out on Final Fantasy VII Remake but who knows what’s happening with that these days. It will probably be another 20 years before the whole game is released at this rate.

 

[Chuderz]

Some of SEGA's most successful franchises right now are primarily PC games handled by Western studios, so if they were to be acquired (which I'm hoping they aren't) Nintendo may be the worst possible fit.

Maybe but maybe Nintendo would sell off that portion to make back some of the cost of acquiring them? I'm sure Microsoft would be interested.

Yeah, no, thanks.

SEGA, for all its faults, makes a big effort to publish games on all consoles, including PC. The last thing I want is fewer people being able to enjoy my favorite games because they are stuck on (underpowered) Nintendo consoles.

Also, I'm begging people to notice that SEGA makes games other than Sonic.

It's not some kind of obligation that Nintendo has underpowered consoles. Eventually, Nintendo is gonna run out of gimmicks to justify their crappy hardware and developers are going to keep pressuring them on this as they always have. It's only a matter of time really because third parties won't keep investing unnecessary resources into outsourcing difficult third-party ports just so Nintendo can keep skimping out on hardware because the costs won't justify it even if it means sacrificing access to Nintendo's audience. They've done motion controls and touch controls. I've suggested they throw in a cast and picture-in-picture feature and combine motion and touch controls but hosting all of that would take a major hardware update. The only unique gimmick they have left is AR and I doubt AR could carry more than one console on its own if even that. Then they have VR after that but that'd take a massive investment to develop and would require an equally as massive boost to their hardware to host.

This generation is the most I've ever seen fans bring up the underpowered nature of the current Nintendo console. They've even finally criticized Nintendo for their insultingly bad online. Time will change consumer interests as the industry evolves. Nintendo won't be able to survive living in their own little world forever as much as their fans like to think they will. The next console sure and maybe even the one after that could be underpowered but in the long-term Nintendo will either have to adapt or get left behind. That's a guarantee.


I think it'd be a good fit besides Sonic. Monkey Ball would be a good fit with the ability to add the Kongs into the fold. Puyo Puyo would be a good fit being a great and colorful Tetris title and with a 99 battle royale elimination mode you'd be set forever. Maybe they could even bring back Sorcery Saga? I think it'd have the potential to be a roguelike. Crazy Taxi would be a good fit. I'm thinking Waluigi's Crazy Taxi driving around New Donk City for his first-ever dedicated game. Valkyria Chronicles would be a good fit with it appealing to a similar audience that Fire Emblem does without being set in a similar universe. Jet Set Radio has so much potential that's just being squandered. I think with the right direction they'd have a great roller sports title. Shin Megami Tensei and Persona are great fits. Bayonetta is a great fit. Yakuza games could help Nintendo broaden their appeal some more as could games like Eternal Darkness and Geist. I think a new Phantasy Star Online title could be an MMO for the Switch an important genre that Nintendo still doesn't have. Fans have been asking for a true sequel to PSO2 that and with Nintendo financial backing the project could reach its greater potential. Finally Sonic would be a natural fit and under this oversight could have his series dramatically improved upon.

This is before we consider SEGA being granted access to Nintendo's dormant IP and would be an extremely valuable workforce increase to Nintendo.

Then there's the retro emulation to consider. Nintendo would gain access to officially emulating SEGA consoles and published titles for their retro emulation adding great value to the service.

Smash would also benefit from this influx of new IP in many ways.

Neither Nintendo nor Sony is any good at keeping smaller franchises alive, although the former is getting better at it. You should be against them buying new studios left and right because it's just going to result in more series getting left behind.

Also, you know, monopolies are objectively bad but apparently, a lot of people are okay with them because a minuscule chance to improve a single game.

Unfair assumption on both counts. First I don't like monopolies; I'm just speculating on the world I actually live in not the one I wish it was. If you want to take up a cause with me politically in regards to consumer protection then be my guest because I'm there for it. I've already addressed that I think there's more value SEGA would bring to Nintendo than just Sonic.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Neither Nintendo nor Sony is any good at keeping smaller franchises alive, although the former is getting better at it. You should be against them buying new studios left and right because it's just going to result in more series getting left behind.

Also, you know, monopolies are objectively bad but apparently, a lot of people are okay with them because a minuscule chance to improve a single game.

I agree and disagree.

I agree that Nintendo and Sony buying the bigger studios like Konami or Sega for the sake of acquiring IP is a bad idea all around.

However, with companies like GoodFeel, AlphaDream, and MercurySteam, it’s a good idea for Nintendo to invest in them so they have more studios that can work on more properties because as it stands Nintendo has a minuscule amount of development studios compared to Sony and Microsoft.

 

[fogbadge]

you'd think if nintendo was going to buy anyone itd be hal, GF or IS. but then people probably said the same about rare way back when

 

[Gengar84]

you'd think if nintendo was going to buy anyone itd be hal, GF or IS. but then people probably said the same about rare way back when

I wonder how different things would have been if Nintendo did buy Rare back then. It would be great if they were still a relevant company today. At least Sea of Thieves was a success. If nothing else, we’d have the Battletoads, Fulgore, Joanna Dark, and Conker in Smash by now and probably even more.

 

[fogbadge]

I wonder how different things would have been if Nintendo did buy Rare back then. It would be great if they were still a relevant company today. At least Sea of Thieves was a success. If nothing else, we’d have the Battletoads, Fulgore, Joanna Dark, and Conker in Smash by now and probably even more.

I certainly think we would. It would also have meant that nuts and bolts would have been on the wii probably

 

[Gengar84]

I certainly think we would. It would also have meant that nuts and bolts would have been on the wii probably

That’s one reason I support Rare characters for Smash as much as I do. For one, I’ve just always loved the Battletoads, Killer Instinct, and Perfect Dark. But, perhaps even more importantly, I’ve always seen Rare characters as honorary Nintendo characters due to their history from the NES through the N64. Even though Microsoft has owned Rare for 20 years now, I’ll always associate them with Nintendo.

 

[fogbadge]

That’s one reason I support Rare characters for Smash as much as I do. For one, I’ve just always loved the Battletoads, Killer Instinct, and Perfect Dark. But, perhaps even more importantly, I’ve always seen Rare characters as honorary Nintendo characters due to their history from the NES through the N64. Even though Microsoft has owned Rare for 20 years now, I’ll always see Rare and Nintendo as related.

Well I doubt you’re alone in thinking that. Although in my case it’s probably n64 nostalgia

 

[Gengar84]

Well I doubt you’re alone in thinking that. Although in my case it’s probably n64 nostalgia

I do have one controversial opinion that probably separates me from most other RARE fans. Out of all major Rare characters, Conker is the one I want in Smash the least. I personally feel he doesn’t offer as much variety when we already have Banjo and he wouldn’t really be able to carry over his vulgarity that made him popular. RARE made a lot more than just platformers and it would be kind of a disappointment to me to get another N64 3D platforming mascot as RARE’s only other character. On top of that, I was never really a huge fan of the character to begin with and the Battletoads and Killer Instinct are some of my favorites of all time. Joanna Dark would also be a really great and unique addition with all the cool guns from Perfect Dark.

That is just my personal opinion though and I realize I’m in the minority. I’m not trying to say that Conker fans are wrong for wanting him over other characters. I’m just explaining why he doesn’t personally interest me that much as a Smash character until we get a few other RARE characters first.

 

[fogbadge]

Actually that gives me an idea of another topic: we already have characters from games that have high age ratings, snake, joker, bayo, but where would people draw the line? Are you ok with what we’ve got but like gengar you’re not big on vulgarity? Or are you not ok with any of it? Where do you draw the line in high age rating characters if at all?

 

[UberPyro64]

Actually, that gives me an idea of another topic: we already have characters from games that have high age ratings, snake, joker, bayo, but where would people draw the line? Are you ok with what we’ve got but like gengar you’re not big on vulgarity? Or are you not ok with any of it? Where do you draw the line in high-age rating characters if at all?

This really shouldn't be the issue. And for the most part that's the case. The only actual issue is if the character is showing off too much skin or implies too much like Mai.

 

[fogbadge]

This really shouldn't be the issue. And for the most part that's the case. The only actual issue is if the character is showing off too much skin or implies too much like Mai.

and yet bayo is in the game

i mean how bad is Mai to not be allowed in when even Shante gets a cameo?

 

[UberPyro64]

and yet bayo is in the game

They've toned down certain parts of Bayonetta that would reveal more skin. And her actual outfit isn't too revealing or suggestive. This makes her work. I guess with Mai that would have been more difficult.

 

[fogbadge]

They've toned down certain parts of Bayonetta that would reveal more skin. And her actual outfit isn't too revealing or suggestive. This makes her work. I guess with Mai that would have been more difficult.

that’s why I always found the whole thing a little odd: you can censor a character who gets naked in her own game but it’s not possible to censor the other? It’s why I think sakurai doesn’t think through what he says

 

[Gengar84]

Actually that gives me an idea of another topic: we already have characters from games that have high age ratings, snake, joker, bayo, but where would people draw the line? Are you ok with what we’ve got but like gengar you’re not big on vulgarity? Or are you not ok with any of it? Where do you draw the line in high age rating characters if at all?

I’m fine with pretty much anything in Smash. I think basically anything can be toned down to an acceptable level in order to fit. It’s probably just my bias talking but I feel like Conker is almost a unique case. Almost his entire appeal is the fact that he’s a cute animal mascot who gets drunk and swears. Remove the alcohol and swearing and he’s just another cute animal mascot.

Mortal Kombat, in contrast, got popular largely for its excessive gore and violence. If you tone that down, you still have really compelling and popular characters with unique abilities. The first movie shows that a kid friendly Mortal Kombat can still work really well.

 

[fogbadge]

I’m fine with pretty much anything in Smash. I think basically anything can be toned down to an acceptable level in order to fit. It’s probably just my bias talking but I feel like Conker is almost a unique case. Almost his entire appeal is the fact that he’s a cute animal mascot who gets drunk and swears. Remove the alcohol and swearing and he’s just another cute animal mascot.

Mortal Kombat, in contrast, got popular largely for its excessive gore and violence. If you tone that down, you still have really compelling and popular characters with unique abilities. The first movie shows that a kid friendly Mortal Kombat can still work really well.

well they did add in the swearing and drinking to avoid that so yes

 

[osby]

Actually that gives me an idea of another topic: we already have characters from games that have high age ratings, snake, joker, bayo, but where would people draw the line? Are you ok with what we’ve got but like gengar you’re not big on vulgarity? Or are you not ok with any of it? Where do you draw the line in high age rating characters if at all?

I don't have a problem with characters from M-rated games at all as long as they can keep things family-friendly in Smash.

That doesn't mean I'm a fan of every character who fits that criteria, though.

 

[Gengar84]

well they did add in the swearing and drinking to avoid that so yes

Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at. Toning Conker down almost defeats the whole reason he was created in the first place. Most other characters can be toned down fine and still keep their core character but Conker loses most of what made him stand out. That said, I’m sure he could still have some amount of edge, even in an E rated game, but would his fans be satisfied if he was toned down to that level? I’ve never been a huge fan of the character in the first place so I’m not the best person to answer that question.

So my personal issue with Conker in Smash is even if everything did somehow fall into place and they got it just right where people were happy with his attitude while keeping with the E rating, he’s still another 3D N64 platforming mascot at the end of the day. It seems like a lot of trouble for less variety when we could just have the Battletoads, Fulgore, or Joanna Dark with no need for any censoring and would represent completely different genres or console generations in the case of BT and KI.

 

[SPEN18]

Actually that gives me an idea of another topic: we already have characters from games that have high age ratings, snake, joker, bayo, but where would people draw the line? Are you ok with what we’ve got but like gengar you’re not big on vulgarity? Or are you not ok with any of it? Where do you draw the line in high age rating characters if at all?

I am leery of adding any character known for explicit content, although I'd probably consider each character on a case-by-case basis rather than making hard rules based on ESRB ratings. TBH Snake getting into Brawl and Bayonetta getting into 4 both bothered me a bit. But of course, the lines are blurry and even series like Fire Emblem or Xenoblade feature some sexual themes; however, I think a good starting point is to decide if the character can be accurately represented in a family-friendly way. When it comes to kids (or even adults) being exposed to other franchises through Smash, representing games with explicit content simply puts the person and/or their family in the position to decide whether or not to buy those games after having seen their characters in Smash. On the other side of the coin, representing a franchise in Smash is somewhat of an endorsement by Nintendo so they should at least consider the ramifications of adding certain characters.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I actually think that if Sony acquired any of the 3rd party companies that have Smash reps, getting them in future games would be harder for sure but not impossible.
Not impossible in the sense that Sony would be willing to let their new characters return to a future Smash installment.
I'm 100% sure the company recognizes and knows how big of a franchise Smash is, and if they and their copyright issues cause halts and disturbances on having characters (e.g, Snake, Cloud) return, they know that not only would a fair amount of Nintendo/Smash fans be disappointed or upset, but so would PlayStation fans who also play/own Smash.

As for their general cooperation with Nintendo, I hope they relationship isn't a mere bitter rivalry. I don't think it really is, though I'm curious if Sony's played a role in a few things.
Like for instance, they own the music rights to Xenoblade X. Did they refuse to allow that game's music into Ultimate, or did Nintendo just not want to confront them?
Or, for EVO 2022: Smash isn't in the lineup. I'm confident Nintendo's partnership with Panda played a role in their backing out, but did Sony directly or indirectly play a role in it, too?

Who knows. Just hoping things in general work out nicely for both companies and for Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

This is probably going to get me some hate because she’s a popular request but the only character I can think of that I really have an issue with as far as getting into Smash is Saber from Fate Stay Night. I’m not sure I like the idea of a character from an X rated hentai game fighting alongside Mario and Pikachu. At least Mortal Kombat has a history of a kid friendly movie and cartoon series and it’s characters have been toned down for the DC games. I’m sure Saber could easily work too but something about it just puts me off.

 

[fogbadge]

I am leery of adding any character known for explicit content, although I'd probably consider each character on a case-by-case basis rather than making hard rules based on ESRB ratings. TBH Snake getting into Brawl and Bayonetta getting into 4 both bothered me a bit. But of course, the lines are blurry and even series like Fire Emblem or Xenoblade feature some sexual themes; however, I think a good starting point is to decide if the character can be accurately represented in a family-friendly way. When it comes to kids (or even adults) being exposed to other franchises through Smash, representing games with explicit content simply puts the person and/or their family in the position to decide whether or not to buy those games after having seen their characters in Smash. On the other side of the coin, representing a franchise in Smash is somewhat of an endorsement by Nintendo so they should at least consider the ramifications of adding certain characters.

i don’t think Nintendo would have a problem endorsing some of those things. Considering some of the things they’ve published

 

[Perkilator]

I think, in terms of M-rated characters, Scorpion from Mortal Kombat could work if you toned him down, like in Injustice. Only problem is Mortal Kombat's shaky history in Japan.

 

[Ivander]

This is probably going to get me some hate because she’s a popular request but the only character I can think of that I really have an issue with as far as getting into Smash is Saber from Fate Stay Night. I’m not sure I like the idea of a character from an X rated hentai game fighting alongside Mario and Pikachu. At least Mortal Kombat has a history of a kid friendly movie and cartoon series and it’s characters have been toned down for the DC games. I’m sure Saber could easily work too but something about it just puts me off.

First off, it's not a hentai game. It has sex scenes, but it's a visual novel, like Phoenix Wright, first and foremost. And having sex scenes does not automatically make it a hentai game.
Second, a hentai game is a game specifically made to be smutty and whatnot and to be the only reason why it's played. Fate/Stay Night was made to be a Visual Novel, where the characters were made to be characters, with backstory and intended settings. It was made to be a Choose your Adventure type game. The only reason the sex scenes were added was because back then, they were expected to have them since a bunch of other popular VNs did it, like Clannad, and the publishers didn't think it would sell without them. When it sold alot and nobody actually cared about them, later re-releases and upgrades took them out and they sold great without them.
Fate/Stay Night was never intended to be a hentai game and the series has much moved on from the scenes since then. At this point, calling the Fate series a hentai series would be as ignorant as saying the Metal Gear series has no gameplay and is only cutscenes.

 

[Gengar84]

First off, it's not a hentai game. It has sex scenes, but it's a visual novel, like Phoenix Wright, first and foremost. And having sex scenes does not automatically make it a hentai game.
Second, a hentai game is a game specifically made to be smutty and whatnot and to be the only reason why it's played. Fate/Stay Night was made to be a Visual Novel, where the characters were made to be characters, with backstory and intended settings. It was made to be a Choose your Adventure type game. The only reason the sex scenes were added was because back then, they were expected to have them since a bunch of other popular VNs did it, like Clannad, and the publishers didn't think it would sell without them. When it sold alot and nobody actually cared about them, later re-releases and upgrades took them out and they sold great without them.
Fate/Stay Night was never intended to be a hentai game and the series has much moved on from the scenes since then. At this point, calling the Fate series a hentai series would be as ignorant as saying the Metal Gear series has no gameplay and is only cutscenes.

If that’s the case, then I was mistaken and I apologize. Would that make it no different than adding Kratos from God of War (ignoring the Sony ownership for the sake of the argument)? That game had sex scenes as well but is still just rated M as far as I’m aware. My only real knowledge of Fate is watching the first Fate Stay Night anime as well as what other people say online so I admit that I was ignorant of the series.

 

[osby]

This is probably going to get me some hate because she’s a popular request but the only character I can think of that I really have an issue with as far as getting into Smash is Saber from Fate Stay Night. I’m not sure I like the idea of a character from an X rated hentai game fighting alongside Mario and Pikachu. At least Mortal Kombat has a history of a kid friendly movie and cartoon series and it’s characters have been toned down for the DC games. I’m sure Saber could easily work too but something about it just puts me off.

I mean, you do you but Fate literally crossed over with Sanrio of all things

With Hello Kitty herself cosplaying as Saber. I think Mario and Pikachu would be fine.

Fate/stay night has some pretty heavy stuff, so I don't blame you for not being into this but it seems kinda weird to label Saber as a hentai character.

 

[Gengar84]

I mean, you do you but Fate literally crossed over with Sanrio of all things

View attachment 349574

With Hello Kitty herself cosplaying as Saber. I think Mario and Pikachu would be fine.

Fate/stay night has some pretty heavy stuff, so I don't blame you for not being into this but it seems kinda weird to label Saber as a hentai character.

Yeah, I’m willing to admit that it’s probably due to my ignorance. I’ve seen the first Fate Stay Night anime and the scene they were alluding to where they had to “recharge their powers” along with everything I’ve heard about the series online must have given me the wrong impression. I never watched Fate Zero because I wasn’t a huge fan of Fate Stay Night but I’ve heard it’s much better. Maybe I should give the series another chance before judging it prematurely.

 

[SPEN18]

i don’t think Nintendo would have a problem endorsing some of those things. Considering some of the things they’ve published

No, I don't think Nintendo has a problem with explicit content in general, although in Smash specifically they'd be putting such IPs in direct association with things like Mario or PKMN and the audiences those franchises appeal to, so it's not without consequence.

But that comment was about what I think they should do anyway, not what they actually have done.

 

[Sucumbio]

I found the Fate animes to be less erotic/fanservicy than Senran Kagura but I could actually support either in terms of Smash inclusion. I thoroughly enjoyed both, very entertaining. Of course as stated Fate started as a visual novel. In 2004 it was released as an adult game on PC. Senran Kagura on the other hand started as a video game released for 3DS. So from that perspective I would say it has a better chance to get the Smash treatment but I'd be cool with either.

As far as m rated material x Smash I remember thinking when Castlevania the animated series came out on Netflix being surprised at how adult it was with gratuitous swearing and whatnot but that didn't keep Richter and Simon from being playable in Ultimate so it seems unlikely that adult oriented content would pose a problem for prospects in Smash unless we're talking strictly Adult (nc17 etc) characters/games/sources.