Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Megadoomer]

hey is that pizza from chicory?

Yes, though anyone outside of the central six (Commander Video from Bit.Trip Runner, Orcane from Rivals of Aether, Octodad from Octodad, Ultra Fishbunjin 3000 from Slap City, the Watcher from Slay The Spire, and Welltaro from Downwell) is an assist as of now. (not sure if assists will get promoted to playable at some point down the line)

 

[Super Devon]

Hi yes, I'm back, haven't been around since shortly after Sora was revealed

So when exactly are we thinking the next Smash game will arrive? more-so announced than released.
It's no brainer that Nintendo will likely have a new Smash game for their next console, but that's still speculation at the end of the day.

I don't think I'll speculate until the day a new Smash gets announced as I'm focusing on other games/interests atm, but that doesn't mean I'm not open-minded about a new Smash, I do think it will happen though not in 1-2 years or anything like that.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Hi yes, I'm back, haven't been around since shortly after Sora was revealed

So when exactly are we thinking the next Smash game will arrive? more-so announced than released.
It's no brainer that Nintendo will likely have a new Smash game for their next console, but that's still speculation at the end of the day.

I don't think I'll speculate until the day a new Smash gets announced as I'm focusing on other games/interests atm, but that doesn't mean I'm not open-minded about a new Smash, I do think it will happen though not in 1-2 years or anything like that.

I think if the next Smash reuses a lot of Ultimate's code and assets (which I feel is likely), I expect a 2024 reveal.

 

[Idon]

I think if the next Smash reuses a lot of Ultimate's code and assets (which I feel is likely), I expect a 2024 reveal.

Bro we're not even gonna get a Switch Pro in 2024...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Well, the circumstances of the next console will be a huge factor for the next game's release. Nintendo front loaded some major games in the Switch's first two years (Smash included) to really avoid the problem of no early momentum that the Wii U had. Ultimate's relatively early release in the console's lifespan came via building off of 4 and emphasizing Everyone is Here as the major attraction, while the bulk of new characters came in the DLC.

However, with the Switch's overall success and Nintendo maintaining a strong marketplace position, the need to get Smash on the next console very quickly may not be as critical, especially for the time needed if Sakurai is going in a new direction and/or a new person is overseeing it.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Okay, this took a lot longer than I was expecting it to lol. I finished my Nintendo Vs. Microsoft roster. I left it the roster size of Ultimate, which is unrealistic but it let me get a little more creative with character slots.

View attachment 349192

Here's a few notes on the Nintendo roster changes, since you can't tell based on the images alone:

• Zelda's moveset is completely changed and now summons the Champions for her specials
• Ganondorf's moveset is revamped and is an amalgamation of all of his incarnations
• Impa uses her naginata moveset from Hyrule Warriors
• Pokemon Trainer uses Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur
• Hisuian Zoroark has a normal Zoroark alt
• Diddy and Dixie can tag in and out, like a transform mechanic
• Marth has alt outfits, like Hero of Lucina, Roy, and Chrom
  • The same goes for Fox for Falco, Slippy, and Peppy as well as Star Wolf (assuming the models rig properly)
  • This is also true for the Battletoads in the Microsoft section for Pimple and Zitz
• Samus' moveset is now based on Metroid Dread and has quite a few changes from Ultimate
• Dark Samus has a lot of changes as well and is now more faithful to its source material
• Nia rides on Dromarch's back and the two fight together
• Officer Howard has a female alt as well as a secret end game armor for both male and female

Nintendo:

Spoiler

1) Mario
2) Luigi
3) Bowser
4) Peach
5) Yoshi
6) Wario
7) Link
8) Zelda (with Champions)
9) Ganondorf
10) Impa
11) Pikachu
12) Pokémon Trainer (Charizard, Blastoise, Venusaur)
13) Lucario
14) Zoroark/Hisuian Zoroark
15) Donkey Kong
16) Diddy and Dixie Kong
17) King K. Rool (Captain and Baron alts)
18) Fire Emblem Lords (Marth, Roy, Lucina, Chrom)
19) The Black Knight
20) Tharja
21) Edelgarde
22) Kirby
23) King Dedede
24)Meta Knight
25) Samus
26) Ridley
27) Dark Samus
28) Shulk
29) Elma
30) Nia and Dromarch
31) Star Fox/Wolf crew (for members that work)
32) Isabelle
33) Inkling
34) Pit
35) Medusa
36) Olimar
37) Captain Falcon
38) Akira Howard
39) Ness
40) Little Mac
41) Mach Rider
42) Isaac

Microsoft:

Spoiler

1) Master Chief
2) The Arbiter
3) Steve
4) Marcus Fenix
5) General RAAM
6) Ori
7) Cuphead (with Mugman alt)
8) Fable Avatar
9) Crackdown Agent
10) Blinx
11) The Battletoads (alts)
12) The Dark Queen
13) Fulgore
14) Black Orchid
15) Hisako
16) Banjo
17) Gruntilda
18) Conker
19) Joanna Dark
20) Kameo
21) Crash Bandicoot
22) Coco Bandicoot
23) Dr. Neo Cortex
24) Spyro
25) The Lich King
26) Thrall Hellscream
27) Illidan Stormrage
28) Sylvanas Windrunner
29) Sarah Kerrigan
30) Jim Raynor
31) Zeratul
32) Diablo
33) Tracer
34) D.Va
35) Reinhardt
36) Doom Slayer
37) Dovakhiin
38) B.J. Blaskowicz
39) Corvo Attano
40) Vault Boy
41) Raz
42) Clippy

Isaac "No Judgement."

 

[Chuderz]

If it's an Ultimate DX, whether it takes the form of a bare minimum port or an Ultimate DX worked on like a true Smash 6, that'll speed the process along quite considerably. Sakurai would definitely be the director of any Ultimate DX with it being his game in the first place.

I'm thinking 2025/2026 will be the launch window of the successor Switch with it being (hopefully) past the hardware shortage and trade route disruptions and most importantly (for Nintendo) in its own launch window away from any potential pro-revision of the PS5 and XSX systems. After that it depends on how long Nintendo is willing to go without a Smash on their new system which based upon past precedent has been no more than 2 years.

As for the Camelot stuff it's such a shame to keep forcing Mario sports on them. What else does tennis and golf need that wasn't put into their current versions other than simply more content? If backward compatibility was a part of the successor Switch you could simply add an expansion pack to those games instead of redoing them entirely and maybe offer a modestly discounted bundle for those without the base game. Or do the ruthlessly profiteering version of that and just release an enhanced port of each for full price.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Keep in mind every single Smash game(though Smash 4 was put into two games, but still) used the previous core game to start with. In other words, the next game will start by using Ultimate's data(unless it's not done by Sakurai or is a true reboot... and it's still pretty likely).

 

[Yamat08]

Keep in mind every single Smash game(though Smash 4 was put into two games, but still) used the previous core game to start with. In other words, the next game will start by using Ultimate's data(unless it's not done by Sakurai or is a true reboot... and it's still pretty likely).

Yes, but Smash4 to Ultimate was still notable for having the succeeding Smash use the same developers. I'm not sure if that'd otherwise mean that there'd be a massive shake-up in staff that'd need to learn about the coding from scratch, or complications in transferring assets from the previous developers, or what have you, but the implication seems to be that Bandai Namco being able to continue on their own work was a massive time-saver.

 

[toonito]

I don't see another Smash coming out on the Switch; Smash is a console seller and 5 games in its 1 Smash game per console. Unless something changes Sakurai and his team doesn't strike me as the type to port a previous game to a new system (IIRC Sakurai/Iwata went with creating Brawl over porting Melee to the Wii). He seems keen on providing a new experience each Smash game. Right now the only thing we seem to know is that most likely the roster will be reduced from Ultimate; how many cuts is the question.

Smash 6 should be coming out on Nintendo's next console. Ultimate is 4 years old and any longer would make the gap between Ultimate and 6 the 2nd longest gap between Smash games.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, but Smash4 to Ultimate was still notable for having the succeeding Smash use the same developers. I'm not sure if that'd otherwise mean that there'd be a massive shake-up in staff that'd need to learn about the coding from scratch, or complications in transferring assets from the previous developers, or what have you, but the implication seems to be that Bandai Namco being able to continue on their own work was a massive time-saver.

That isn't why, though. Every single game constantly uses the previous game(Smash 4 being a notable exception, but both Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U used Brawl as its base anyway) to save loads of time and energy. Even if it's another developer, they'd save so much time and energy with that, it's pretty likely they'd stick with the best method. Reboot doesn't mean everything from scratch anyway. It means a a new direction. But using the previous assets even for that as much as possible massively cuts down the workload. That's more than enough.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, I think I said in here a while ago that I can't remember Emily Rogers being right about GS before. IMO her comments seem like wishful thinking or speculation rather than legit leaks. If Nintendo is indeed highly interested in GS, that would be a mild surprise. But I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Camelot wants to do it given that they do seem to legitimately like making RPGs.

My stance rn is that if GS were to get another developer, it would probably be in addition to Camelot also working on it and not in place of them, or at least with the Takahashis directly involved in some way. It's not clear at all what dev would/could take it on, though I suppose WayForward doing Advance Wars was a total left-fielder. We'll have to see, I guess.

If GS were to return, though, now is indeed the time, post-tennis and post-golf, and with the current primary Nintendo hardware still having some legs.

They could opt to ask Square Enix for help ? I mean, they seem quite helpful on the Switch already, and have done tons of their own classic RPG revivals. Why not ask them to help with Golden Sun?

 

[Geno Boost]

I remember some people say that Toad or Meowth are currently the most important Nintendo character who aren’t playable in smash.
But I think technically it is Pokémon trainer as a fighter on his own without the Pokemons fighting for him is the most important Nintendo character who isn’t technically playable he is the actual face of the Pokémon franchise alongside Pikachu.
It is something that might never happen since I don’t think Nintendo are brave enough to turn Pokémon trainer into an actual fighter despite having enough potential with the amount of Pokémon items that he can use such as bicycle, repel, escape rope, empty pokeballs, fishing rod and you can even give Ash punch from when he tried to Punch Mewtwo.
Pokémon snap and pokemon ranger can also be used in the moveset as well.
For a final smash Pokémon trainer can use azure flute to summon Arceus and fight.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I remember some people say that Toad or Meowth are currently the most important Nintendo character who aren’t playable in smash.
But I think technically it is Pokémon trainer as a fighter on his own without the Pokemons fighting for him is the most important Nintendo character who isn’t technically playable he is the actual face of the Pokémon franchise alongside Pikachu.
It is something that might never happen since I don’t think Nintendo are brave enough to turn Pokémon trainer into an actual fighter despite having enough potential with the amount of Pokémon items that he can use such as bicycle, repel, escape rope, empty pokeballs, fishing rod and you can even give Ash punch from when he tried to Punch Mewtwo.
Pokémon snap and pokemon ranger can also be used in the moveset as well.
For a final smash Pokémon trainer can use azure flute to summon Arceus and fight.

This idea was always extremely boring to me. I don't think Pokemon Trainer should take the Villager approach, his Pokemon fight for him, and that's how he's being implemented in Smash. There's little to add.

Also I'd argue the biggest namesakes left are Dixie and Cranky Kong. With Cranky probably having an edge thanks to the upcoming Mario Movie, him being the original Donkey Kong, and his appearances in games Dixie wasn't in, as DKC1, DK64 and Returns, games that did better than the DK games Dixie appeared in.

Though this is quite subjective. Others will say it's Bandana Dee, and there's also a lot to back that up.

 

[Dinoman96]

In terms of omissions, I think most will agree on Waluigi, Dixie and Bandana Dee.

 

[Gengar84]

This idea was always extremely boring to me. I don't think Pokemon Trainer should take the Villager approach, his Pokemon fight for him, and that's how he's being implemented in Smash. There's little to add.

Also I'd argue the biggest namesakes left are Dixie and Cranky Kong. With Cranky probably having an edge thanks to the upcoming Mario Movie, him being the original Donkey Kong, and his appearances in games Dixie wasn't in, as DKC1, DK64 and Returns, games that did better than the DK games Dixie appeared in.

Though this is quite subjective. Others will say it's Bandana Dee, and there's also a lot to back that up.

I do think it might be interesting to do a summoner style Pokémon Trainer that uses a combination of physically fighting as well as summoning Pokémon from their team to perform an attack for their specials. Something like this could work really well for several evil team leaders such as Lysander with his Dr. Octopus arms, another villain like Lusamine in her Nihilego possession form, or gym leaders/Elite Four members or champions, particularly those who specialize in Fighting type Pokémon like Bea, who has been shown physically training with her Machops in the anime short.

 

[Chuderz]

I'd really love more Pokemon Trainers in Smash in general though they do come with a ridiculous amount of work.

Which brings me to this concept. The long and short of it is basically making Bulbasaur, Charmeleon and Blastoise sort of "echo fighters" of their respective counterparts on the current Pokemon Trainer's team. New attacks where they are needed with respect to Squirtle's lack of blast canons, Charmelons lack of wings and Bulbasaur's lack of a leaf. On top of that they obviously would have different stats and hit/hurt boxes relative to their character designs from the Pokemon Trainer counterparts.

I do wonder how feasible this would even be? Would it be basically close to the same work at just doing 3 different Pokemon altogether or would this actually be the more streamlined option there is to introduce another Pokemon Trainer to Smash? I imagine that it'd be like implementing Ken's differences to Ryu multiplied by 3 PLUS all the different animations and modeling work necessary so I don't really know if it's feasible. I think regardless though it still would be the path of least resistance to bringing another Pokemon Trainer into the game.

I don't think anyone could argue against Blue's relevance to gaming and Nintendo history or these Pokemon's worthiness with Bulbasaur literally being the very first entry in the Pokedex and Blastoise being just as iconic as Charizard. Chameleon is the odd one out but that's almost a core feature of middle evolutionary Pokemon at this point.

I also wonder what they'd call him in the context of him appearing alongside Red. They could opt for "Rival Pokemon Trainer" if they wanted to keep the Pokemon Trainer moniker or go for what I've prefer and simply refer to them as Red and Blue.

 

[fogbadge]

In terms of omissions, I think most will agree on Waluigi, Dixie and Bandana Dee.

id say most would disagree on at least one of them

 

[Sucumbio]

id say most would disagree on at least one of them

Dixie? (Sorry Diddy Kong )

 

[fogbadge]

Dixie? (Sorry Diddy Kong )

not in my case but possibly

 

[JOJONumber691]

In terms of omissions, I think most will agree on Waluigi, Dixie and Bandana Dee.

I would add Takamaru as well First Party wise but yeah this is definitely the Omission List.

 

[Diddy Kong]

In terms of omissions, I think most will agree on Waluigi, Dixie and Bandana Dee.

I disagree with Waluigi, and would replace him with Impa.

Though, I do suspect Cranky making it over Dixie.

 

[SPEN18]

They could opt to ask Square Enix for help ? I mean, they seem quite helpful on the Switch already, and have done tons of their own classic RPG revivals. Why not ask them to help with Golden Sun?

The fact that it would be a Nintendo-exclusive title that SE would probably not have that much control over design-wise probably makes it less likely. My sense is that everything would have to sort of line up just right for that to come together, but it's an interesting idea to consider at least.

 

[Gengar84]

I'd really love more Pokemon Trainers in Smash in general though they do come with a ridiculous amount of work.

Which brings me to this concept. The long and short of it is basically making Bulbasaur, Charmeleon and Blastoise sort of "echo fighters" of their respective counterparts on the current Pokemon Trainer's team. New attacks where they are needed with respect to Squirtle's lack of blast canons, Charmelons lack of wings and Bulbasaur's lack of a leaf. On top of that they obviously would have different stats and hit/hurt boxes relative to their character designs from the Pokemon Trainer counterparts.

I do wonder how feasible this would even be? Would it be basically close to the same work at just doing 3 different Pokemon altogether or would this actually be the more streamlined option there is to introduce another Pokemon Trainer to Smash? I imagine that it'd be like implementing Ken's differences to Ryu multiplied by 3 PLUS all the different animations and modeling work necessary so I don't really know if it's feasible. I think regardless though it still would be the path of least resistance to bringing another Pokemon Trainer into the game.

I don't think anyone could argue against Blue's relevance to gaming and Nintendo history or these Pokemon's worthiness with Bulbasaur literally being the very first entry in the Pokedex and Blastoise being just as iconic as Charizard. Chameleon is the odd one out but that's almost a core feature of middle evolutionary Pokemon at this point.

I also wonder what they'd call him in the context of him appearing alongside Red. They could opt for "Rival Pokemon Trainer" if they wanted to keep the Pokemon Trainer moniker or go for what I've prefer and simply refer to them as Red and Blue.

I think you’d have to completely rework Blastoise. It doesn’t really work with Squirtle’s animations. I’ve seen multiple Brawl mods that have tried and Blastoise always looks really goofy hopping all over the place energetically like Squirtle does. Blastoise has a lot more in common with Bowser but doesn’t have the same skeleton with Bowser having longer limbs so it wouldn’t work there either without stretching like Pokken. Charmeleon has a much shorter neck than Charizard and no wings so some things would have to change but it could work for the most part. I think Bulbasaur would probably work completely fine since it and Ivysaur have very similar body structures.

 

[fogbadge]

I think you’d have to completely rework Blastoise. It doesn’t really work with Squirtle’s animations. I’ve seen multiple Brawl mods that have tried and Blastoise always looks really goofy hopping all over the place energetically like Squirtle does. Blastoise has a lot more in common with Bowser but doesn’t have the same skeleton with Bowser having longer limbs so it wouldn’t work there either without stretching like Pokken. Charmeleon has a much shorter neck than Charizard and no wings so some things would have to change but it could work for the most part. I think Bulbasaur would probably work completely fine since it and Ivysaur have very similar body structures.

doesnt ivysaur use some of the leaves around the bud to attack? something bulbasaur is missing?

 

[Gengar84]

doesnt ivysaur use some of the leaves around the bud to attack? something bulbasaur is missing?

Yeah, that’s a good point. Even that isn’t perfect but they are the two closest of the three. I’d personally love to see Blastoise since it’s my brother’s favorite Pokémon but it wouldn’t really work as an echo unfortunately.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's the unfortunate thing. Bulbasaur has enough of the bodyshape to work as an Ivysaur echo, though some moves may need slight tweaks. Wartortle is pretty much Squirtle with head wings. The problem is Charizard instead. It doesn't have a real option that has the same bodyshape. Well, in the games, at least. There kind of is Mega Charizard Y, but that isn't really any better. No other Pokemon is actually that similar enough. You could certainly use Charizard to make a semi-clone out of someone, but that's it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, that’s a good point. Even that isn’t perfect but they are the two closest of the three. I’d personally love to see Blastoise since it’s my brother’s favorite Pokémon but it wouldn’t really work as an echo unfortunately.

Blastoise should really make it on his own, if it was up to me. I once suggested Pokemon Trainer to have a evolution mechanic, land a KO as one of the starter Pokemon (Squirtle, Bulbasaur and Charmander in this case) and they evolve and become better fighters. Problem is, each of these Pokemon just have one stock (if you set the total amounts of stocks to 3 of course) so you can't just be reckless about it. When Pokemon return to their PokeBall, they're slightly healed however.

Not sure how balanced it would be, but yeah.

Blastoise could be part of Pokemon Trainer Blue however. Add in Rhydon, who's the first created Pokemon ever so has some sort of merit for inclusion, and maybe Alakazam or Gengar (the latter due to its overall popularity and the former cause it was always part of his team).

Then again, there's plenty of Pokemon that are worthy on their own as candidates, for example Garchomp.

The fact that it would be a Nintendo-exclusive title that SE would probably not have that much control over design-wise probably makes it less likely. My sense is that everything would have to sort of line up just right for that to come together, but it's an interesting idea to consider at least.

Sucks, but you're probably right here. They wouldn't be allowed their creative freedom, and Golden Sun was kind of Nintendo's "response" to not having Final Fantasy in a way, so it's a very unlikely scenario, but they're probably the best possible team to realize it. It's just extremely unlikely, but probably still more likely than Super Mario RPG getting a remake by them.

 

[Gengar84]

Blastoise should really make it on his own, if it was up to me. I once suggested Pokemon Trainer to have a evolution mechanic, land a KO as one of the starter Pokemon (Squirtle, Bulbasaur and Charmander in this case) and they evolve and become better fighters. Problem is, each of these Pokemon just have one stock (if you set the total amounts of stocks to 3 of course) so you can't just be reckless about it. When Pokemon return to their PokeBall, they're slightly healed however.

Not sure how balanced it would be, but yeah.

Blastoise could be part of Pokemon Trainer Blue however. Add in Rhydon, who's the first created Pokemon ever so has some sort of merit for inclusion, and maybe Alakazam or Gengar (the latter due to its overall popularity and the former cause it was always part of his team).

Then again, there's plenty of Pokemon that are worthy on their own as candidates, for example Garchomp.


Sucks, but you're probably right here. They wouldn't be allowed their creative freedom, and Golden Sun was kind of Nintendo's "response" to not having Final Fantasy in a way, so it's a very unlikely scenario, but they're probably the best possible team to realize it. It's just extremely unlikely, but probably still more likely than Super Mario RPG getting a remake by them.

A team of both Blastoise and Gengar would probably even pass Sephiroth as my favorite Smash Bros. Character since Blastoise is my brother’s favorite Pokémon and Gengar is mine. I don’t even care what the third Pokémon is at that point lol. Rhydon, being the first created Pokémon does make a lot of sense. Unfortunately, I don’t think most people would be too happy with three more Gen 1 Pokémon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

A team of both Blastoise and Gengar would probably even pass Sephiroth as my favorite Smash Bros. Character since Blastoise is my brother’s favorite Pokémon and Gengar is mine. I don’t even care what the third Pokémon is at that point lol. Rhydon, being the first created Pokémon does make a lot of sense. Unfortunately, I don’t think most people would be too happy with three more Gen 1 Pokémon.

I doubt they'd be happy, but people always find something to ***** about. Honestly, Generation 1 is getting the most attention cause well, they're the most popular and recognizable faces. I mean, there's Blastoise and Gengar of course, but what about Pokemon as Meowth, Dragonite, Snorlax or Eevee and it's evolutions ?

But I guess that's the problem with franchises like Pokemon, you can always name one more character that would be a very natural fit for Smash and be well received. I think the same applies for Fire Emblem, I could still see Dimitri, Edelgard, Claude and Lyn on the roster and not be bothered with it at all (I'm a minority here, am well aware).

 

[Chuderz]

Pokemon could literally have its own platform fighter and I think that'd be really awesome so long as it didn't take away from Smash in any way and it was of the same quality which is the most unrealistic major ask for the most profitable franchise in the world apparently. Items could be Pokeballs (obviously) and the various items in Pokemon like repel, escape rope, the Pokeflute, potions, fishing rod, rocks. You could even add the whole spirit element by having a held item system. Z-Moves and Megaevolutions for the final smash.

I don't know how on board Nintendo would be though. On one hand it's a (hypothetically high-quality) Pokemon platform fighter and on the other hand you already have a platform fighter that you're now cutting in on. Could these games exist simultaneously as exclusive Nintendo titles? Maybe if their release windows were far enough apart from each other. One would have to inactive while the other is active.

 

[toonito]

Re: Pokemon

I'd be more interested in a Pokemon Trainer who physically fights alongside her team; using Pokemon for specials. For Ultimate I suggested Bea who someone mentioned has fought her Machoke in the anime. Her normals, tilts, and aerials would be her fighting while her specials would be from her Gym Leader team.

as for Blue/Rival, I'd rather see him as a boss than playable. I feel the 3-in-1 concept is already expressed with PT. As for Blue's pokemon I'd rather see Exeggecute, Growlithe, and Gyarados as those are his most consistent grass, fire, and water pokemon throughout the series.

 

[fogbadge]

didnt sakurai once say he almost used blastoise instead of squirtle?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

didnt sakurai once say he almost used blastoise instead of squirtle?

Yes. He also found Blastoise to not work well for balance. He spoke nothing on the -saur line at any point. My theory is Venusaur was the first plan, but changed to Ivysaur later on to have each stage represented.

 

[Geno Boost]

tbh i dont like the transformation gimmick as it takes away down special i much rather have it as a taunt to transform instead or simply split the fighters

 

[Gengar84]

didnt sakurai once say he almost used blastoise instead of squirtle?

Yeah, I think I remember reading that he originally considered using just the final stage evolutions of the starters but ended up deciding on using the different stages of evolution. Logically, that makes a lot of sense but it’s still a shame for us personally because my brother almost got his favorite Pokémon and Smash character in Blastoise but now it will probably never happen as long as we have Squirtle.

tbh i dont like the transformation gimmick as it takes away down special i much rather have it as a taunt to transform instead or simply split the fighters

I personally love the transform mechanic both for its flavor and for the fun of using multiple characters in one match but I can understand that argument. My idea is to change transformations to a taunt that is usable online so characters can keep their full movesets. I think that’s a win-win for both sides.

 

[Yamat08]

I remember some people say that Toad or Meowth are currently the most important Nintendo character who aren’t playable in smash.
But I think technically it is Pokémon trainer as a fighter on his own without the Pokemons fighting for him is the most important Nintendo character who isn’t technically playable he is the actual face of the Pokémon franchise alongside Pikachu.
It is something that might never happen since I don’t think Nintendo are brave enough to turn Pokémon trainer into an actual fighter despite having enough potential with the amount of Pokémon items that he can use such as bicycle, repel, escape rope, empty pokeballs, fishing rod and you can even give Ash punch from when he tried to Punch Mewtwo.
Pokémon snap and pokemon ranger can also be used in the moveset as well.
For a final smash Pokémon trainer can use azure flute to summon Arceus and fight.

IF they were to actually do that, it'd most likely be another Trainer. They seem content with having Pokemon Trainer just be there to switch between the Pokemon (and he was only absent in Smash4 due to the 3DS limitations).

And I'd like to once again remind everyone, Smash really doesn't seem to like changing up its veterans that much. To date, I'd say that the most radical changes in movesets (outside of minor nerfs and buffs, and Melee adding side-B) has been Mario's FLUDD, Luigi's Poltergust, Ganondorf's sword, Zelda and Shiek's separation, Zero Suit Samus and Olimar losing the tether recoveries, Charizard going solo and then trading off Rock Smash for Flare Blitz, Link's BOTW overhaul, and maybe a few others. And even with all these changes, I can't say any of them really makes it feel like I'm playing a completely different character from the one that debuted in a previous Smash game, as they still retain a pretty significant majority of their old moveset, which would NOT be the case if they suddenly made Pokemon Trainer act like Villager.

 

[SPEN18]

You could certainly use Charizard to make a semi-clone out of someone

I floated a Salamence semiclone earlier if you missed it. I'd still prefer Blaziken as a C. Falcon clone or Gardevoir from Hoenn, though.

Garchomp

Yes!

One of those mons that is pretty much always relevant in some way. He is probably the most iconic and consistently recurring Sinnoh mon besides Lucario; some of the Sinnoh legendaries have a case also, but either play very small plot-wise roles in the main series games (for ex. the Mystery Gift and/or post-game ones) or suffer from an almost Ridley-like syndrome of not being obvious fits for a platform fighter (the cover legends). Garchomp seems to perform consistently super-well in overall popularity, appears in games all the time, and forms the principal pillar of quite possibly the most memorable Champion fight in the series, except for maybe the original.

Gengar

Gengar

My pick for next Kanto rep.

Meowth, Dragonite, Snorlax or Eevee and it's evolutions

Meowth is only really important in the anime, though. Depends on how you value that (for me, not much).

Dnite...he could probably be a Zard clone also? But probably a lower tier in terms of being "mega-popular" and "consistently relevant" compared to mons like Gengar, Garchomp, Gardevoir, etc. In the main series his claim to fame is basically being used by Lance, however much that is worth.

Snorlax is super-memorable but his role as a roadblock isn't really an "important" one, and I think he's been surpassed over the years in popularity to a much greater degree than, say, Gengar; IMO he's more joke character material than serious contender.

For Eevee, it is tricky to pull off a good moveset that doesn't take too many resources and is consistent with how evolution works in PKMN. Highly recognizable and stars in Let's Go, but Let's Go is the only game where it is really "important"; itself and its various evolutions have been strong in popularity to different degrees and at different points in time. Appears consistently. Kind of a hard case to evaluate, really, especially in terms of how to represent it properly.

 

[Yamat08]

tbh i dont like the transformation gimmick as it takes away down special i much rather have it as a taunt to transform instead or simply split the fighters

Yeah, I think I remember reading that he originally considered using just the final stage evolutions of the starters but ended up deciding on using the different stages of evolution. Logically, that makes a lot of sense but it’s still a shame for us personally because my brother almost got his favorite Pokémon and Smash character in Blastoise but now it will probably never happen as long as we have Squirtle.

I personally love the transform mechanic both for its flavor and for the fun of using multiple characters in one match but I can understand that argument. My idea is to change transformations to a taunt that is usable online so characters can keep their full movesets. I think that’s a win-win for both sides.

I guess it depends on the character, really. I recall earlier in the thread, it was brought up that Zelda/Shiek didn't work all that well because of how radically different the two are in movesets, with one just seeming outright superior to the other in tier lists (and Samus's transformation being tied to the Final Smash was just cumbersome, though I'd imagine the same logic applies). In contrast, Pokemon Trainer and Pyra/Mythra actually do complement each of the individual parts fairly well.

I do agree that the loss of a proper down-B does suck, though. It would be nice if there was some solution to that..... shield+B is brought up often, but the ability to switch mid-air is too big of a deal. Maybe taunts would work (with this taunt being a special function meant to work in the air). Better yet, they wouldn't even need to really sacrifice anything if they tie it to ONE of the side taunts (I'm sure taunts aren't the greatest use of resources in Smash, but it still seems like a wasted opportunity that both the left and right taunt functions exactly the same for every character).

Also, I suggested this earlier, but nobody seems to have commented on it: if they simply make dodging not be an immediate function tied to the shield button, then shield+B specials should be possible mid-air. Instead, you're only able to do a mid-air dodge by holding shield, then pressing in whatever direction you want to dodge in. And if you want do a still mid-air dodge, just do shield+A (with shield+B being for the special).

Meowth is only really important in the anime, though. Depends on how you value that (for me, not much).

He was also in that GameCube demo (which, granted, was heavily based after the anime and later used as an ending theme for it). Honestly, back in the lead-up to Brawl, I found myself request Meowth to fight with a guitar. Nowadays, though, I've kinda moved on from the idea of Meowth ever getting in.

 

[Lenidem]

I'll just say that I love Pokémon Trainer as he is. He's the character I play the most. I love how he plays and I think his moveset makes total sense. It's just wierd that he's not officially "Red".

I think Pokémon has got too many playable characters compared to other series, but if I had to include one more, I would love a "Gold" trainer with the three starters of gen 2 (Cyndaquil, Bayleef, Feraligatr).