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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Perkilator

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Guys, I’m being really torn. On one hand, I think Shadow should’ve been an Echo of Sonic and that more songs and Spirits should’ve been in the base game. On the other hand, with the advent of Sephiroth (no pun intended), I think Eggman should’ve been a DLC fighter to remedy this.
 

chocolatejr9

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Guys, I’m being really torn. On one hand, I think Shadow should’ve been an Echo of Sonic and that more songs and Spirits should’ve been in the base game. On the other hand, with the advent of Sephiroth (no pun intended), I think Eggman should’ve been a DLC fighter to remedy this.
Let's wait and see if Sonic 2 ends up teasing Shadow. Then we can work things out from there.
 

osby

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Guys, I’m being really torn. On one hand, I think Shadow should’ve been an Echo of Sonic and that more songs and Spirits should’ve been in the base game. On the other hand, with the advent of Sephiroth (no pun intended), I think Eggman should’ve been a DLC fighter to remedy this.
The obvious solution is to add Big the Cat, we've been over this.

Heavyweight, unique moveset potential, has video game history, canonically fishes, would have a frog in his moveset, I fail to see any downsides.
 

chocolatejr9

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The obvious solution is to add Big the Cat, we've been over this.

Heavyweight, unique moveset potential, has video game history, canonically fishes, would have a frog in his moveset, I fail to see any downsides.
This guy gets it.
 

Gengar84

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Apologize with another season of Smash DLC.

He's deserving.

If it were up to me to choose newcomers, I'd hold another Smash Ballot, then alternate between ballot winners, and my personal most wanteds.
Yeah, I think that’s a good way to go about it. For the purposes of posting a list, I can’t very well hold a ballot so I went with a mix of characters I either hear a lot of support for or I just feel are very deserving. Other characters are just personal favorites that I could at least make some argument about why they should be here. Sadly, a lot of my favorites are Microsoft characters and Pokémon so I had to leave them off the list since those two are already pretty heavily represented. My other favorite characters are probably too random or obscure to realistically have any shot at getting in Smash.

I just took a look at your most wanted list and it looks like my roster has a decent amount of that covered. I’ve got your top 2 in Ryu Hyabusa and Bill Rizer as well as Zero, Nightmare, and the Battletoads. I have Resident Evil and Chrono Trigger representation but with different characters since I went with more personal favorites and Magus has just always been one of my favorite game characters. I also feel like Nemesis would make for an awesome and really unique Smash fighter but I can see why most people would want the protagonists over my personal choices. I also have Impa and Dixie but as completely original characters and not echoes. Octoling is a semiclone like Isabelle.

Alright, I made an edit to the roster because I forgot an important character. I had to cut Medusa even though I really like her design but Bandana Dee seems too important to leave out. Kid Icarus probably isn’t big enough to warrant four characters no matter how cool Medusa might be. I also changed Urbosa for Mipha because I feel like Mipha offers a bit more variety to the Smash roster. Urbosa and HW Impa give off similar vibes of tough badass women so this helps to change things up a bit between the Zelda characters as well.
 
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Chuderz

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We're approaching 6 months after the end of Ultimate. It's nice to take note because however long it ends up being until the next game our first checkpoint is fast approaching! The longest wait was 6 years between Melee and Brawl so even if it's that long between Ultimate and the next game we're already 1/12 of the way there very soon. Hooray!
 

Gengar84

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We're approaching 6 months after the end of Ultimate. It's nice to take note because however long it ends up being until the next game our first checkpoint is fast approaching! The longest wait was 6 years between Melee and Brawl so even if it's that long between Ultimate and the next game we're already 1/12 of the way there very soon. Hooray!
If you start counting from the launch of Ultimate rather than the end of the DLC, we’re a lot closer at least. I could potentially see another Smash within the next 3 years if all goes well.
 
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JOJONumber691

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If you start counting from the launch of Ultimate rather than the end of the DLC, we’re a lot closer at least. I could potentially see another Smash within the next 3 years if all goes well.
The reason why the gap between 3DS/Wii U was so short was because the Wii U was a massive flop. The Switch is planned to go on for 9 Years at least so we're not getting another new game until at least a couple years into the next console, likely so Nintendo can figure out whether or not the console was enough of a success to justify needing an Ultimate Deluxe or not.
 

Gengar84

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The reason why the gap between 3DS/Wii U was so short was because the Wii U was a massive flop. The Switch is planned to go on for 9 Years at least so we're not getting another new game until at least a couple years into the next console, likely so Nintendo can figure out whether or not the console was enough of a success to justify needing an Ultimate Deluxe or not.
Is that confirmed? 9 years seems like an abnormally long time for a console’s life cycle. Has any console ever had a life cycle that long?
 

LiveStudioAudience

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My own thinking has been pointing towards late 2024 as a potential year for the next console. Gives the necessary time for enough significant releases to out and the timing would be right for the next upgrade in hardware that might be practical for future games, especially third parties.
 

JOJONumber691

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Is that confirmed? 9 years seems like an abnormally long time for a console’s life cycle. Has any console ever had a life cycle that long?
Nope, but judging by some recent quotes, we're only half way through the lifecycle of the Switch, so considering when this quote was said, which was 4 and a half years in, doubling it up gets you to 9 years. Not to mention how NFT's are making next gen chips rarer than ever.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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We definitely have some years left with the Switch, but that halfway through the lifecycle remark is also the kind of blanket PR quote Nintendo's made in the past that's often been inconsistently accurate. They also said the DS would be the third pillar alongside home consoles and the GBA, and then the system supplanted the latter in less than two years. Basically, with a company like them that holds their cards close to their chest, I don't think every statement can be taken at literal face value.
 
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RodNutTakin

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Oh man, I somehow completely missed the existence of this thread for months. I've been wanting to scratch that speculation itch for a while so I'm pleased to be here (and have a real reason to come outta lurking for the longest time). Hopefully I haven't missed anything too exciting discussion-wise here.

So I guess as an opening question here, which would you guys be more interested in seeing from me: what I want from the next Smash, or what I expect from the next Smash?
 

Gengar84

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Normally, I’m fine waiting as long as they want for a new console. I’d still be satisfied if they just kept releasing PS2 or PS3 games and never made another console after that. My only issue with the Switch are the controllers. I’ve gone through four Pro controllers and they’ve all become unusable due to drift. I ended up just giving up and buying an adapter so I can use my PS4 controllers to play the Switch. Hopefully they fix that issue with their next console.

Oh man, I somehow completely missed the existence of this thread for months. I've been wanting to scratch that speculation itch for a while so I'm pleased to be here (and have a real reason to come outta lurking for the longest time). Hopefully I haven't missed anything too exciting discussion-wise here.

So I guess as an opening question here, which would you guys be more interested in seeing from me: what I want from the next Smash, or what I expect from the next Smash?
Feel free to post whatever you want to talk about but I’m always more interested in hearing what people want from Smash than what they expect. I have a lot of personal favorite characters I love to talk about here.

I just made a roster for Smash 6 on the previous page that combined some of my personal most wanted characters with generally requested characters and other important first party characters. I’d love to hear your thoughts on some of the characters.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Here's a question.

Who is currently the most obscure first party and/or third party character? Do you think they would go more obscure?
 

chocolatejr9

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Here's a question.

Who is currently the most obscure first party and/or third party character? Do you think they would go more obscure?
I feel that would depend on if Sakurai would want to go obscure again. Though with the current direction Smash is going, that gets increasingly harder to justify...
 

RodNutTakin

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Feel free to post whatever you want to talk about but I’m always more interested in hearing what people want from Smash than what they expect. I have a lot of personal favorite characters I love to talk about here.

I just made a roster for Smash 6 on the previous page that combined some of my personal most wanted characters with generally requested characters and other important first party characters. I’d love to hear your thoughts on some of the characters.
Admittedly all I've done so far is take one of those old Most Wanted templates for Ultimate, and replaced the Least Wanted section with a Mii Costumes section before adding everything else. It's a bit barebones, but I'm holding off from going too crazy until we get a good idea of the next Smash's scope.
Anyway, here's the image I made:
1648690857585.png

As for your roster picks, I think most of them are solid, but I feel that Raven Beak makes more sense as a Dread character than the EMMI, in my opinion. I feel he could play like the Ganondorf to Samus's Falcon.
 

Gengar84

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Here's a question.

Who is currently the most obscure first party and/or third party character? Do you think they would go more obscure?
I think :ulticeclimbers: are probably the most obscure first party character. As far as third parties, none of them are really that obscure but I suppose I’d say that:ult_terry: would likely be it. I’m all for obscure characters. A lot of my favorites are obscure so I have no issues with more joining.


Admittedly all I've done so far is take one of those old Most Wanted templates for Ultimate, and replaced the Least Wanted section with a Mii Costumes section before adding everything else. It's a bit barebones, but I'm holding off from going too crazy until we get a good idea of the next Smash's scope.
Anyway, here's the image I made:

As for your roster picks, I think most of them are solid, but I feel that Raven Beak makes more sense as a Dread character than the EMMI, in my opinion. I feel he could play like the Ganondorf to Samus's Falcon.
Thanks for the feedback. I was torn between EMMI and Raven Beak for Smash. I’m still playing Dread and just got the ice missiles so I don’t know much about Raven Beak yet. I imagine he would have a lot more direct source material to pull from for a moveset than EMMI and he is the main antagonist, which are two strong points in his favor.

Mild Metroid Dread spoilers:
Up until this latest EMMI, all they did was chase you and one shot you so there wasn’t much to pull from. This latest one had ice beam eyes so that gives me hope that future EMMIs will have more to pull from.

My logic for EMMI is partially because I just love it’s design and partially because it has received a lot more promotion than Raven Beak including its own Amiibo. I feel like more people are probably familiar with EMMI than Raven Beak. I’d be happy with either though and my opinion could change once I beat the game.
 
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chocolatejr9

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Admittedly all I've done so far is take one of those old Most Wanted templates for Ultimate, and replaced the Least Wanted section with a Mii Costumes section before adding everything else. It's a bit barebones, but I'm holding off from going too crazy until we get a good idea of the next Smash's scope.
Anyway, here's the image I made:

As for your roster picks, I think most of them are solid, but I feel that Raven Beak makes more sense as a Dread character than the EMMI, in my opinion. I feel he could play like the Ganondorf to Samus's Falcon.
Who's the yellow sprite-looking guy? Sheriff?
 

RealLuigisWearPink

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Here's a question.

Who is currently the most obscure first party and/or third party character? Do you think they would go more obscure?
I’ll second the ice climber and ROB picks, I’d also raise Mr Game and Watch especially when he joined the roster.

They can definitely go more obscure though. There’s a whole treasure trove of unknown Nintendo content, and an entire world of Japanese exclusives. Stuff like Ouendan, Hakkun, Tomato Adventure, and it probably goes deeper than my own knowledge. I doubt they’d dig that deep though, they seem content sticking to NES games for that obscure pick if they even do it at all.
 

chocolatejr9

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I’ll second the ice climber and ROB picks, I’d also raise Mr Game and Watch especially when he joined the roster.

They can definitely go more obscure though. There’s a whole treasure trove of unknown Nintendo content, and an entire world of Japanese exclusives. Stuff like Ouendan, Hakkun, Tomato Adventure, and it probably goes deeper than my own knowledge. I doubt they’d dig that deep though, they seem content sticking to NES games for that obscure pick if they even do it at all.
Man, imagine if they acknowledged something like Warlocked. Remember that game?

...

Exactly.
 

Yamat08

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I’ll second the ice climber and ROB picks, I’d also raise Mr Game and Watch especially when he joined the roster.
Amusingly enough, I was personally familiar with Game & Watch when Melee came out. I never played the original devices, but I was familiar with the Game & Watch Gallery games on Game Boy, which were fairly recent at the time.

I'd have to say that IceClimbers were the most obscure. I never knew about them, and at the time they were included, Virtual Console, those e-Reader cards, and even GBA's ports of NES games had yet to be a thing. Basically, ancient titles were even harder to access than they are now.

Not sure who the most obscure 3rd party is...... I personally didn't know of Kazuya, but that was mainly due to not playing Tekken (granted, when I saw the eye glow and heard the announcer speaking in the trailer, I was immediately able to recognize it as somebody from Tekken). I wouldn't say Terry's too obscure, as SNK still remained a mainstay in what little remained of arcades for a good while (and arcades were still a pretty major scene throughout the '90s and even early '00s). But he does always intrigue me because I saw absolutely NOBODY demanding him, or even just a general SNK rep, and I wish we'd see more "surprise" picks like him.
 

Wonder Smash

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Here's a question.

Who is currently the most obscure first party and/or third party character? Do you think they would go more obscure?
In the roster? Probably ROB. Can't say for third-party characters.

As for going for more, there's also the Famicom Fairytales, which were Japanese exclusive. Characters like Goku and Chao from Yūyūki would definitely work as obscure characters for Smash.

I think :ulticeclimbers: are probably the most obscure first party character. As far as third parties, none of them are really that obscure but I suppose I’d say that:ult_terry: would likely be it. I’m all for obscure characters. A lot of my favorites are obscure so I have no issues with more joining.
Terry is nowhere near obscure.
 
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RodNutTakin

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Who's the yellow sprite-looking guy? Sheriff?
It's one of the Dragon sprites from Adventure on the 2600. I was inspired to include it because of a version of it in MUGEN whose moveset involved it turning into other sprites from other Atari 2600 games, kind of similar to how they revamped Mr. Game & Watch in Ultimate.
 

Gengar84

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In the roster? Probably ROB. Can't say for third-party characters.

As for going for more, there's also the Famicom Fairytales, which were Japanese exclusive. Characters like Goku and Chao from Yūyūki would definitely work as obscure characters for Smash.



Terry is nowhere near obscure.
I agree. Like I said, I don’t think any third party character in Smash is obscure. The question was who was the MOST obscure of the third party characters chosen. I’m guessing it’s between Terry and Banjo but within the Smash community, it’s probably Terry.
 
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ZelDan

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Here's a question.

Who is currently the most obscure first party and/or third party character? Do you think they would go more obscure?
For first party its probably :ulticeclimbers:

For third party its either :ultbanjokazooie: or :ultbayonetta1: I'd think.

As for if they'd go more obscure...maybe? The only character I could maybe see as more obscure and having any actual shot of making it into SMash is Adol Cristin of the Ys series.
 

Wonder Smash

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I agree. Like I said, I don’t think any third party character in Smash is obscure. The question was who was the MOST obscure of the third party characters chosen. I’m guessing it’s between Terry and Banjo but within the Smash community, it’s probably Terry.
I don't see how either one of them can be considered obscure.
 

Wonder Smash

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I mean, most people had never heard of SNK pre-Smash...
If you mean some of the Smash fans...probably. I've always found that strange that some fans had no clue about SNK.

But Banjo has always been brought up in many discussions, even when he seemed impossible.
 
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Ivander

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Here's a question.

Who is currently the most obscure first party and/or third party character? Do you think they would go more obscure?
Probably :ulticeclimbers: for first party. Like, aside from hardcore Nintendo fans, who would really know who the Ice Climbers are aside from Smash Bros?

Third Party is sort off hazy because the character people would call obscure, being Banjo & Kazooie, was pretty high on the Smash Ballot in both the West and Japan. Bayonetta is another one that is hazy as well.
The only one I'm really thinking about is Terry, mostly because while I don't think he's that obscure, I can't imagine a casual audience really knowing about him, compared to say, hardcore fighting game fans and a good number of older fans from the 90s. And most of those fans are a part of the Smash fanbase.
 
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BirthNote

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Time for another moveset idea for Dixie Kong!

For this instance we're exploring an idea in the 5th Limb category, which covers potential attacks that have Dixie's hair function like whips or an arm. A fifth limb if you will.

Forward Air:

Dixie turns and flips her hair in midair, providing a broad stroke that smacks anyone in front of her and those above. Aerial attacks tend to be where Dixie shines, as she’s able to perform more dynamic movements and let her hair hit at wider angles. While the smack isn’t far-reaching, its broad swing is good for swatting away approaching assailants thanks to its strength and knockback potential. A straightforward and blunt attack with good power.

If anyone's interested in more ideas Dixie can potentially do, I have a Google doc with various illustrations to inspire others. There's a lot of stuff Dixie can do that the other Kongs can't and it's worth a look; digital works are at the bottom.
 

dream1ng

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Here's a question.

Who is currently the most obscure first party and/or third party character? Do you think they would go more obscure?
It's probably Ice Climbers, who even when they were included were hardly the most prolific retro character, and over the following twenty years have become even more obscure, were you to put Smash aside.

At least ROB and Game & Watch were big parts of their console, and have made somewhat notable appearances since.

The most obscure third-party is probably Terry or Richter, but neither is really... obscure. Someone has to take the spot though. They did generate the most "who?"s, though. And more people pretending to know Richter than will fess up to it.

I don't think they'll go more obscure with the first-party. ICs were added to fill a spot that Sakurai no longer is concerned with, and the current surprise characters seem to still be valued for being known as well as surprising, if characters like WFT, DHD, and PP are to go by.

I do think they'll go for more obscure with the third-parties, just because there's plenty of room below what we currently have in that area.
 

RealLuigisWearPink

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Actually, yeah, Richter is probably the pick for most obscure third party. Doubt too many know him outside the Castlevania fandom, considering his game's Japan only status for so long.

Ice Climber is honestly not only obscure it's kinda bad, and that's coming from a guy ****ing likes urban champion and mach rider LOL
 

Ivander

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If Richter is obscure, than Simon is just as obscure then he is. Although in recent years, that's mostly due to Konami in general. But that aside, aside from Judgement and Mirror of Fate, Simon makes next to no major Castlevania appearances since Castlevania Chronicles and the last Castlevania appearance he's made was the Castlevania Collection that had Castlevania 1-4 and Bloodlines IIRC. And even his crossover appearances have dwindled, with the last non-Smash Bros one being Super Bomberman R/R Online last time I checked.

Whereas besides being in arguably the most popular Castlevania game Symphony of the Night, Richter is set to be the next protagonist for the Castlevania Anime, which has gotten a notable following. And Castlevania Requiem, which had Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night had also released not too long ago as well. And he also joined Simon in Super Bomberman R Online.

Like, if you're looking at a casual perspective, neither would be relatively known names. And if you look at the major fanbases, more than likely if they know about one, they would know the other. Castlevania and Konami fans would know both easily. And old Nintendo and Smash fans would know both Simon and Richter since the Belmont Clan name alone practically comes with a timeline and history of heroes, whether it'd be Simon, Trevor, Richter, Julius, Leon, etc. Basically, Simon and Richter would make for a good case of "You either know both of them or neither of them." And that's not even counting that Castlevania in general was a popular pick in the Smash Ballot.
 
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Yamat08

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Oh damn, I forgot about Richter. Granted, Symphony of the Night is one of the most popular Castlevania titles out there, so just because I didn't play it doesn't mean he wouldn't be well-known. Still, I'm sure when the potential for a Castlevania character came up, everyone had Simon in mind (maybe Alucard). A Fighter being introduced alongside their own Echo came completely out of nowhere.

For first party its probably :ulticeclimbers:

For third party its either :ultbanjokazooie: or :ultbayonetta1: I'd think.

As for if they'd go more obscure...maybe? The only character I could maybe see as more obscure and having any actual shot of making it into SMash is Adol Cristin of the Ys series.
When I think about it, Banjo&Kazooie and Bayonetta probably are the right answers. I mean, Banjo&Kazooie hasn't really been relevant for a decade now (with their last adventure being an Xbox exclusive that wasn't held in high regard). And Bayonetta, while from a fondly-loved game, is from a relatively new IP (one that would've been literally just one title, and I guess a couple Sega cameos, had it not been for Nintendo saving the sequel). However, both characters have heavy ties to Nintendo, so technically, should they really be regarded in the same vein as the other 3rd party characters? I mean, Banjo&Kazooie got so many requests because of their prominence as first-party characters in the N64 era, while Bayonetta (regardless of the polls' legitimacy) did genuinely get a lot of requests (and blocks by Hideki Kamiya) due to recently being picked up by Nintendo as one of the WiiU's most notable exclusives. If neither of these characters had those aspects going for them, I doubt they'd be widely seen as any more worthy of adding to Smash than, say, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger.

And Adol would be an interesting pick, but I'm sure there're plenty of other "Terry-level" characters out there. Characters who do have a sizeable fanbase, and do have a lot of their own cred in general gaming history, yet aren't at the forefront of being demanded by everybody and their mother. I mean, throughout the DLC cycle, while I wasn't expecting him, I thought that Laharl from Disgaea was a character that a lot of people were sleeping on. Incidentally, my MW of KOS-MOS could probably be considered a mixture of an obscure, yet relevant, pick while also being Nintendo-related.
 

dream1ng

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If Richter is obscure, than Simon is just as obscure then he is.
If you go back to before they were revealed, this is clearly not an accurate reflection of the fanbase. Simon carried almost all the expectation for his series, and anyone else other than Alucard was lucky to even be mentioned offhandedly.

When the reveal happened it was quite obvious a great many people, if they knew the character, didn't know much more than just that he existed in the series. I think it speaks to the fact that with many series there's a partition where the fanbase will familiarize themselves with the characters considered to have the odds, and be much more unfamiliar with dark horses/not the frontrunners in the series. Especially third-parties.

Sure Castlevania fans would know both. Fairly knowledgeable gamers would know both. But we're dealing with demographics much wider than that. Clearly Smash fans were far more familiar with one than the other, and if you expand that circle even more casually, it's not going to help either of them. But frankly, pre-Ultimate, it'd help Richter less.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Actually, yeah, Richter is probably the pick for most obscure third party. Doubt too many know him outside the Castlevania fandom, considering his game's Japan only status for so long.

Ice Climber is honestly not only obscure it's kinda bad, and that's coming from a guy ****ing likes urban champion and mach rider LOL
Richter was in Castlevania Symphony of the Night. That's like the most popular Castlevania game outside the first one on the NES.

He's also a part of the famous dialogue sequence.
 
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dream1ng

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I don't think anyone is disputing Richter is in SotN. But Alucard gets most of the attention for starring in that game. It's also worth noting that despite being a critical and cult darling, the game sold sub one mil (though I imagine re-releases have pushed it over the mark).

The thing is the baseline of third-party recognition is very high, because that's the point of their inclusions. Every third-party in the game can have an argument for why they're well-known, because even the ones at the bottom are far from being nobodies.

The basis of comparison is the third-parties against themselves, not the third-parties against... just... being known. Because one of them is going to have to be the least well known of the group. I've posited it's either Terry or Richter. Others say Banjo and Bayo. I honestly don't think it's them; Banjo hasn't done anything of note outside of Smash in a very long time, but his series was, at one point, very successful and he's the eponymous lead. Being old doesn't inherently make you more obscure. A character like Crono is old, hasn't done much in a long time, but definitely isn't obscure, because of the weight and legacy of his game. I think Banjo is in similar stead. He's sort of like Crash, but without the company willing to bring him back.

I also don't think it's Bayo. Her series is probably the least successful of all the third-parties, but Nintendo has kept it relevant since she's been included, so I don't think you could consider her the most obscure of the third-parties. Plus the character seems to resonate with gamers, generally.

If only Geno was included, we could (almost) all be on the same page. :p
 
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