Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I think Banjo may have his own set of complications if Microsoft is less than cooperative outside of DLC negotiation, we don't have any precedent for how this will go between games / how sustainable collaboration with western partners is for the base release, but with how smoothly the NSO stuff has went I have my doubts about that being a hang-up. The other two examples I mentioned are hella safe.

If anything I would think DLC negotiation would be a hit against Steve rather than Banjo since Minecraft is still an ongoing, super successful game/franchise, sorta like how I feel like FF7 Remake being Square's current big project might make Cloud and Sephiroth more enticing for DLC instead of base game for them. For Banjo though? Between ease of licensing, the NSO stuff, being such a popular request, and like I said previously, basically being Microsoft raking in free licensing costs for a character they almost never use, I would think Banjo would be really easy for base game negotiation.

I just think Steve might have the benefit of talks not taking like five years this time alongside the fact that unless the way stages are made now is just generally easier, people will see presumably similar coding to Ultimate's stages after the rework and say "Welp, guess we know about Steve now," but that assumes that it'd be done the same way or that Sakurai and co even care if people find out that way (which I assume they would because of the SSE cutscene thing but I digress) lol

 

[Louie G.]

If anything I would think DLC negotiation would be a hit against Steve rather than Banjo since Minecraft is still an ongoing, super successful game/franchise, sorta like how I feel like FF7 Remake being Square's current big project might make Cloud and Sephiroth more enticing for DLC instead of base game for them. For Banjo though? Between ease of licensing, the NSO stuff, being such a popular request, and like I said previously, basically being Microsoft raking in free licensing costs for a character they almost never use, I would think Banjo would be really easy for base game negotiation.

I feel you, I was kinda just referring to a blanket "Microsoft character". Just addressing that we don't really know how Microsoft flies with DLC... is it in their best interest to designate their characters to DLC? Are they cool with lending them out for base roster with some DLC incentive down the line?

For what it's worth, I presume the latter. Especially for Banjo, where we do have that precedent in Microsoft having no issues throwing the Rare games over for NSO where there is likely not a whole lot of monetary gain involved. It's just kind of an unknown for now compared to how we know the way Sega, Capcom, Namco or Square Enix are down for at this point, more or less.

I'm still kind of operating on all-or-nothing with them. I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to include Banjo on his own, or Steve on his own. Yeah I know, Minecraft is the biggest game in the world yadda yadda, but there's a reason Banjo was revealed first and I'm confident it's not just because Steve is more complicated. They were both seen as individually valuable for unique reasons, and both would cause uproar if they were excluded. But if they were both excluded on base we could presume it was just a matter of Microsoft negotiations being more complicated than we're aware of.

 

[Kirbeh]

I think the most likely third party character is Waluigi. He made his playable Mario Party debut in the third party, Mario Party 3. Mario Kart has a pretty good chunk of content already so I do think it's a bit odd Mario Party barely gets any recognition.

The first half was a s*** post but seriously, I want some Mario Party content in Smash. Feels like something else that's past due like a Bowser's Castle stage, etc.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm still kind of operating on all-or-nothing with them. I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to include Banjo on his own, or Steve on his own. Yeah I know, Minecraft is the biggest game in the world yadda yadda, but there's a reason Banjo was revealed first and I'm confident it's not just because Steve is more complicated. They were both seen as individually valuable for unique reasons, and both would cause uproar if they were excluded. But if they were both excluded on base we could presume it was just a matter of Microsoft negotiations being more complicated than we're aware of.

I'm kinda the same, but I'm of the opinion both will come back in base next game, probably in a negotiation that nets Microsoft at least one additional DLC character like Doomguy (since he got a Mii Costume in Ultimate).

Of course I'm also of the opinion that we may end up with a bigger roster than we're anticipating, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the most likely third party character is Waluigi. He made his playable Mario Party debut in the third party, Mario Party 3. Mario Kart has a pretty good chunk of content already so I do think it's a bit odd Mario Party barely gets any recognition.

The first half was a s*** post but seriously, I want some Mario Party content in Smash. Feels like something else that's past due like a Bowser's Castle stage, etc.

We have a minigame theme from Mario Party 9 and three themes from Mario Party: World Tour. What more could you ask for?

 

[Ivander]

We have a minigame theme from Mario Party 9 and three themes from Mario Party: World Tour. What more could you ask for?

Really shows we need alot more music than 1,068 music tracks. We need twice-to-thrice that amount.

That aside, we did get a lucky break with one of the Mario Party tracks. Rocket Road is great.

 

[NintenZ]

S

LOL

I’m sorry but I think we’re at the point where expectations are too high if we’re thinking this.

Bayonetta 3 was a game marred by controversy and only sold over a little over 1m copies, not great for a franchise of this pedigree.

The spinoff, Cereza and the Lost Demon, failed to chart in either the US or the United Kingdom, with it only selling a little over 6,000 copies in Japan its first week.

There is also the fact that the voice actress of Bayonetta, Atsuko Tanaka recently passed away, if you know seiyuu culture, you know that that puts the character at odds for future appearances unless they have to recast.

This is honestly me more talking about the series’ future but saying she is guaranteed? Absolutely not. And this is one of my favorite series of all time I love Bayonetta (1 and 2 I pretend to think 3 was a fever dream).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Bayonetta 3 was a game marred by controversy and only sold over a little over 1m copies, not great for a franchise of this pedigree.

One million is a lot. That's the expected amount for a Bayonetta game. They have always been niche games.

Nintendo has explicit interest in Bayonetta's success. She's pretty darn safe. I dunno if I'd put her in S tier, but I would never put her below A tier.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

LOL

I’m sorry but I think we’re at the point where expectations are too high if we’re thinking this.

Bayonetta 3 was a game marred by controversy and only sold over a little over 1m copies, not great for a franchise of this pedigree.

The spinoff, Cereza and the Lost Demon, failed to chart in either the US or the United Kingdom, with it only selling a little over 6,000 copies in Japan its first week.

There is also the fact that the voice actress of Bayonetta, Atsuko Tanaka recently passed away, if you know seiyuu culture, you know that that puts the character at odds for future appearances unless they have to recast.

This is honestly me more talking about the series’ future but saying she is guaranteed? Absolutely not. And this is one of my favorite series of all time I love Bayonetta (1 and 2 I pretend to think 3 was a fever dream).

This is all fair enough to point out but Nintendo actively funded 2 and 3, they're owned by SEGA who is pretty much guaranteed to play ball considering Sonic, one million isn't bad for a Bayonetta game in the case of 3, considering 1 and 2 sold about 1.2 mil, and I don't know every aspect of seiyuu culture and it depends on what SEGA decides presumably but couldn't they theoretically just reuse voice clips like they have been for Mewtwo?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This is all fair enough to point out but Nintendo actively funded 2 and 3, they're owned by SEGA who is pretty much guaranteed to play ball considering Sonic, one million isn't bad for a Bayonetta game in the case of 3, considering 1 and 2 sold about 1.2 mil, and I don't know every aspect of seiyuu culture and it depends on what SEGA decides presumably but couldn't they theoretically just reuse voice clips like they have been for Mewtwo?

Incineroar's Japanese voice clips were used posthumously so the idea of reusing clips of a dead seiyuu is certainly not unheard of.

Recasting after a seiyuu dies is also not unheard of either, since Heihachi has not one but two dead seiyuus under his name and he's still in Tekken 8 with brand new voice clips from a new seiyuu.

 

[RileyXY1]

Bayonetta is gonna have both her Japanese and English VAs recast, the former due to the VA passing away and the latter was already recast in Bayonetta 3 so I think that they would reuse the Bayonetta 3 VA for her.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Most of the next Smash's budget is going to solely be for new voice clips from new VAs.

 

[Idon]

Bayonetta 3: Barely hit a million, has had its main VA replaced, story largely panned by fans, ZERO interest across the board for a sequel and is not even owned by Nintendo but they gotta pay outta pocket for its entire production.

Meanwhile an IP they actually own..

Spoiler

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Incineroar's Japanese voice clips were used posthumously so the idea of reusing clips of a dead seiyuu is certainly not unheard of.

Recasting after a seiyuu dies is also not unheard of either, since Heihachi has not one but two dead seiyuus under his name and he's still in Tekken 8 with brand new voice clips from a new seiyuu.

Very true, I had Mewtwo's a bit mixed up because for some reason I thought Keiji Fujiwara passed away sometime between Smash 4 and Ultimate instead of in 2020.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Very true, I had Mewtwo's a bit mixed up because for some reason I thought Keiji Fujiwara passed away sometime between Smash 4 and Ultimate instead of in 2020.

Though it highly depends on what the ones actually working on the IP want, because there have also been cases of characters being retired solely because their VA passed away with no intentions of ever recasting them.

For a Western example, this is the reason why Edna Krappabel stopped showing up in Simpsons episodes.

If PlatinumGames really have no interest in a sequel like Idon said, they're definitely not recasting Bayonetta solely for Smash voice clips.

 

[RileyXY1]

Though it highly depends on what the ones actually working on the IP want, because there have also been cases of characters being retired solely because their VA passed away with no intentions of ever recasting them.

For a Western example, this is the reason why Edna Krappabel stopped showing up in Simpsons episodes.

If PlatinumGames really have no interest in a sequel like Idon said, they're definitely not recasting Bayonetta solely for Smash voice clips.

And Cars also killed off Doc Hudson because his VA Paul Newman had died.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't think Bayonetta's relative lack of recent success is a death knell. Bayo 3 was still a pretty prominently advertised game with Nintendo money put into it. This rings the same way to me as "ARMS was a flop so Min-Min is getting cut", I don't think Nintendo (or more specifically, Sakurai) is this reactionary to start cutting characters (immediately) because their games didn't do as well as they hoped.

Lack of a future is another thing that will influence decisions down the line, but Bayo 3 just came out a couple years ago. Quality and fan reaction withstanding, having a Switch release like so is a good thing for keeping a character in peripheral. What I may be concerned about if I was a Bayonetta fan is where the series goes from here - if Bayo 3 is the last game in the foreseeable future and the next Smash starts rolling around, then maybe I'd be convinced that this has significantly hurt her chances. Otherwise she's in about as good a position as any other character who had a game in the last three or four years.

And no bias involved here - I actually don't like Bayonetta in Smash very much at all. It just is what it is here, she is pretty plainly in a good spot. Besides, people still like the first two games and well... believe what you may about it, but she's supposed to be here as a crowd-pleasing fan pick in the first place.

I wouldn't put her in "S" tier - I would reserve that for and . But she's a pretty solid "A" tier returnee.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Most of the next Smash's budget is going to solely be for new voice clips from new VAs.

It was really strange to find that at least 8 characters had one of their voice actors die right after Ultimate came out when I was looking at how many characters had new vs. reused voice clips. Most of them were Pokémon too, though I suppose that makes since since they all have a billion voice actors due to necessity.

 

[Ivander]

Most of the next Smash's budget is going to solely be for new voice clips from new VAs.

I mean, I don't see alot of the budget going there, but depending on how many characters there are, there could be a decent amount of effort put into new voicelines/recasts. I assume the reason Ultimate didn't put more effort into the recasts/new voicelines was because almost all of the budget for Ultimate was more than likely put into everything else.

And maybe they'll actually get Wendee Lee for Lyn, instead of reusing Lani's voicelines for Lyn, but somehow still credit Wendee Lee despite her not voicing Lyn, Female Robin(Wendee Lee was a voice option for Robin in Awakening) or any other character in Ultimate.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't think Bayonetta's relative lack of recent success is a death knell. Bayo 3 was still a pretty prominently advertised game with Nintendo money put into it. This rings the same way to me as "ARMS was a flop so Min-Min is getting cut", I don't think Nintendo (or more specifically, Sakurai) is this reactionary to start cutting characters (immediately) because their games didn't do as well as they hoped.

the ironic thing being that ARMS has sold better than FE Engage and XC3 and everyone's sure those games are getting characters

 

[Royaru]

The context of several third party characters has changed slightly in recent years.
-We can all more or less agree that these four will most likely be in the base game and nothing really has changed significantly around them. I'd say Dragon Quest is in a similar position, the promotion of their games always goes hand in hand with Nintendo and they've had temporary exclusivity for several of their projects. The Nintendo-DQ mix works wonders and it wouldn't be surprising if DQXII was shown first at a Nintendo event.

-Bayonetta is practically a second-party franchise these days; Nintendo owns the rights to all the games, the re-releases of Bayonetta 1&2 on Switch sold over a million, which is a success for a niche series, and Bayonetta 3 did the same. While the spin-off didn't sell as many, the fact that Nintendo supported this project clearly shows the confidence they have in the franchise. In fact, considering the ending of Bayonetta 3, it wouldn't be surprising to see Viola joining Smash alongside Bayonetta.

-These two are interesting. The last few Final Fantasy projects have not met sales expectations, which has led to several cancellations of other projects to alleviate the losses. Square needs to promote the series more, and to make the most profit possible. Perhaps in this case it is not Nintendo who is looking for them, but Square wants both of them to be together with versions of the FFVII remakes for Switch 2.

-Disney has once again shown interest in video game-related projects, so it would be strange if they were more open to having Sora in Smash than they were a few years ago.

-SNK was bought two years ago by Misk, a Saudi royal investment fund. Since then, SNK has received many more collaborations and promotions of all kinds. It would not be strange to think of Misk putting pressure on Nintendo to bring Terry back to Smash. Well, more than pressure, they probably pay a lot of money to make that happen.

- Microsoft and Nintendo have been collaborating for years to bring RARE's legacy to Switch, and given Microsoft's recent moves I see both as very likely, even in the base game.

- His situation hasn't changed much in recent years, Snake has improved a bit thanks to the remake, and there are many rumors about Persona 6 and Persona 3 Reload at the Switch 2 presentation but nothing very definitive.


Overall, no character has a BIG reason against them that makes them less viable, I think they are all very possible due to the marketing agreements between Nintendo and other publishers. Maybe many will go to DLC though.

 

[Folezicle Lives!]

Imo the 3rd parties’ chances are:

Im kind of hoping Sakurais game is a new IP and we are getting a definitive edition of Smash on Switch 2 (unless I'm missing something). The roster is too good to lose or maybe I am being greedy.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Im kind of hoping Sakurais game is a new IP and we are getting a definitive edition of Smash on Switch 2 (unless I'm missing something). The roster is too good to lose or maybe I am being greedy.

My bet is still on a Sakurai-directed Ultimate 2 & Knuckles.

 

[Gengar84]

Im kind of hoping Sakurais game is a new IP and we are getting a definitive edition of Smash on Switch 2 (unless I'm missing something). The roster is too good to lose or maybe I am being greedy.

I wouldn’t mind if we only got a few base game newcomers in the next game if we kept everything we have now. What I’d really like them to focus on is a more engaging co-op adventure mode and improvements to other modes like Stage Builder. Maybe bring back classic fun side modes like Break the Targets. Then they can start up the Fighter’s Passes again once the game is out and keep it going for the life of the Switch 2. Not saying that’s likely but it’s what I’d prefer to see. I don’t really need any huge shakeups to the gameplay because I enjoy how it plays now.

 

[Shinuto]

Sakurai called gaming's second biggest villain after . That alone makes me think he'll at least fish to get Sephiroth in the base roster with .

"X is the biggest Y in the genre after Mario's version(s) of Y" is a pattern that repeats for most secondary reps for third parties in Smash that I think are likely, IMO:

• Shadow is gaming's second biggest evil counterpart/anti-hero counterpart after .
• Chun-Li is gaming's second biggest female supporting character after .
• X is the protagonist of gaming's second most successful attempt at rebooting an already popular series' cast and location after Super Mario Bros. (if you count that as a pseudo-reboot to Donkey Kong)
• Zero is gaming's third biggest example of a supporting character becoming popular enough to get a sequel series with multiple entries after Yoshi and Wario.
• Alucard is the protagonist of gaming's second most successful genre-jump after Mario making the jump to 3-D.

It's funny since I don't think the Mario have nearly as much charm as these so called "seconds" Bowser and to an extent Wario not withstanding

 

[Lionfranky]

Ubisoft headed towards 'privatization and dismantling' in 2025, industry expert predicts

Video games industry expert Joost van Dreunen believes Ubisoft will be privatized and dismantling in 2025 as the French company plots takeover failsafe.

www.tweaktown.com

Things aren't looking good for Ubisoft.... I don't know how this will affect Assassin Creed and Rayman in next Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

Ubisoft headed towards 'privatization and dismantling' in 2025, industry expert predicts

Video games industry expert Joost van Dreunen believes Ubisoft will be privatized and dismantling in 2025 as the French company plots takeover failsafe.

www.tweaktown.com

Things aren't looking good for Ubisoft.... I don't know how this will affect Assassin Creed and Rayman in next Smash.

That’s sad to hear. I never really got into any Ubisoft games myself but it sucks for fans that really liked their games. I have no real attachment to Rayman but he seems like he would have been a fun a smash character.

On the subject of potential third party newcomers, would you all rather see Nintendo expand on Smash’s current direction as a “celebration of gaming” and include more popular game characters from around the world and branch out from being mostly Japan focused? Would you rather see Smash return to its roots as a big Nintendo crossover with a few guests sprinkled in here and there? Are you generally happy with how Smash is currently handling things in regards to newcomers and prefer it stay Japan focused but include guests mostly from Japanese developers?

 

[Garteam]

It's funny since I don't think the Mario have nearly as much charm as these so called "seconds" Bowser and to an extent Wario not withstanding

It's not really a "Mario is more charming than other franchises" thing as much as it as a "Mario is so massively popular and historically important that silver is the most that basically any other franchise will reach" thing.

 

[NintenRob]

One million is a lot. That's the expected amount for a Bayonetta game. They have always been niche games.

Nintendo has explicit interest in Bayonetta's success. She's pretty darn safe. I dunno if I'd put her in S tier, but I would never put her below A tier.

A million is a lot but context is important. Bayonetta 3 was actively in development hell to the point Nintendo had to step in and say "Stop ****ing around with this open world **** and just make it like the old ones." and Kamiya has since left platinum. It sold less than Bayonetta 2 on Switch. This is extremely rare for Switch as most established franchises have only seen growth on the system, Bayonetta did not see this success.

I'm not saying the franchise is doomed, but it is not in a healthy spot right now. Which sucks because I adore Bayonetta games and love having her in smash

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ubisoft headed towards 'privatization and dismantling' in 2025, industry expert predicts

Video games industry expert Joost van Dreunen believes Ubisoft will be privatized and dismantling in 2025 as the French company plots takeover failsafe.

www.tweaktown.com

Things aren't looking good for Ubisoft.... I don't know how this will affect Assassin Creed and Rayman in next Smash.

2024 was... not a good year for Ubisoft. Like, at all. Massuve financial flops, controversy with its flagship IP, takeover rumors, layoffs, they just could not catch a break, I swear.

 

[fogbadge]

That’s sad to hear. I never really got into any Ubisoft games myself but it sucks for fans that really liked their games. I have no real attachment to Rayman but he seems like he would have been a fun a smash character.

On the subject of potential third party newcomers, would you all rather see Nintendo expand on Smash’s current direction as a “celebration of gaming” and include more popular game characters from around the world and branch out from being mostly Japan focused? Would you rather see Smash return to its roots as a big Nintendo crossover with a few guests sprinkled in here and there? Are you generally happy with how Smash is currently handling things in regards to newcomers and prefer it stay Japan focused but include guests mostly from Japanese developers?

I kinda hate the celebration of gaming quote. Cause everyone seemed to decide that sakurai meant what they think of as a celebration of gaming rather than trying to figure out what sakurai thinks of as a celebration

A million is a lot but context is important. Bayonetta 3 was actively in development hell to the point Nintendo had to step in and say "Stop *ing around with this open world * and just make it like the old ones." and Kamiya has since left platinum. It sold less than Bayonetta 2 on Switch. This is extremely rare for Switch as most established franchises have only seen growth on the system, Bayonetta did not see this success.

I'm not saying the franchise is doomed, but it is not in a healthy spot right now. Which sucks because I adore Bayonetta games and love having her in smash

from what I saw 3’s sold the worst of them on the switch. Out of the numbered titles I mean

 

[Gengar84]

I kinda hate the celebration of gaming quote. Cause everyone seemed to decide that sakurai meant what they think of as a celebration of gaming rather than trying to figure out what sakurai thinks of as a celebration



from what I saw 3’s sold the worst of them on the switch. Out of the numbered titles I mean

Yeah, I think he only described it in that way as a means to explain why we were getting so many third party newcomers. It seemed to be a pretty notable shift in direction from the pre-Smash 4 Nintendo crossover it had been prior to that. I don’t think he really set out from the start with that theme as his goal but was noticing the shift and wanted to comment on it. I enjoyed the mostly Nintendo side of it because we had a higher chance of seeing relatively obscure characters like Ice Climbers but I generally prefer the wider scope since I already have most of my favorite first party characters that have a realistic chance.

If I’m taking that description literally, I interpret it to mean a celebration of gaming as a whole and not any specific region or genre of gaming. I think it’s always going to have a Japanese centric lean considering that’s where Smash is developed but I’d love to see it branch out and include more popular characters from other regions as well. They already started with Steve and Banjo so that’s encouraging.

 

[Pupp135]

On the subject of potential third party newcomers, would you all rather see Nintendo expand on Smash’s current direction as a “celebration of gaming” and include more popular game characters from around the world and branch out from being mostly Japan focused? Would you rather see Smash return to its roots as a big Nintendo crossover with a few guests sprinkled in here and there? Are you generally happy with how Smash is currently handling things in regards to newcomers and prefer it stay Japan focused but include guests mostly from Japanese developers?

I don’t have a strong preference in which direction that is taken for third parties next game, and I’m mostly focused on having characters on the roster that I enjoy. If I had to pick one, I think something between For and Ultimate would be my preferred approach where it leans a little bit more towards Nintendo and then adds a a decent portion third parties (maybe like 30-40 percent of newcomers are third party once DLC is accounted for).

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve asked this a couple times but I think it keeps getting passed over but what does everyone think of Elfilis as a potential Kirby newcomer? I think it has a really cool design and really interesting abilities that could translate to a fun Smash character. I also like that it has a different appearance than the typical spherical design of many of its other characters. I feel like Bandana Dee is the most likely Kirby character but Elfilis would be a great additional character for variety. It stands out a bit more visually compared to Magolor and Marx, especially if we’d already have three spherical Kirby characters by that point.

 

[NintenRob]

I’ve asked this a couple times but I think it keeps getting passed over but what does everyone think of Elfilis as a potential Kirby newcomer? I think it has a really cool design and really interesting abilities that could translate to a fun Smash character. I also like that it has a different appearance than the typical spherical design of many of its other characters. I feel like Bandana Dee is the most likely Kirby character but Elfilis would be a great additional character for variety. It stands out a bit more visually compared to Magolor and Marx, especially if we’d already have three spherical Kirby characters by that point.

I'd find it pretty random and confusing. I love forgotten land, but as a villain, Elfilis is on the bottom end of Kirby villains for me. Great boss fight, but not much character.

 

[fogbadge]

I don’t have a strong preference in which direction that is taken for third parties next game, and I’m mostly focused on having characters on the roster that I enjoy. If I had to pick one, I think something between For and Ultimate would be my preferred approach where it leans a little bit more towards Nintendo and then adds a a decent portion third parties (maybe like 30-40 percent of newcomers are third party once DLC is accounted for).

I think most smash fans are focused on characters they enjoy being on the roster, they just dress it up. With things like: you can’t have a celebration of gaming without this character. It’s just a coincidence that they’re my favourite character

I’ve asked this a couple times but I think it keeps getting passed over but what does everyone think of Elfilis as a potential Kirby newcomer? I think it has a really cool design and really interesting abilities that could translate to a fun Smash character. I also like that it has a different appearance than the typical spherical design of many of its other characters. I feel like Bandana Dee is the most likely Kirby character but Elfilis would be a great additional character for variety. It stands out a bit more visually compared to Magolor and Marx, especially if we’d already have three spherical Kirby characters by that point.

nah. Kirby has a lot of potential newcomers but for me this one falls into the uninteresting category

 

[Gengar84]

I'd find it pretty random and confusing. I love forgotten land, but as a villain, Elfilis is on the bottom end of Kirby villains for me. Great boss fight, but not much character.

Yeah, I feel like Magolor did have a bit more of a personality which definitely helps. I loved Superstar but I don’t have much memory of Marx’s involvement in the story beyond the boss fight. It’s been a long time since I’ve played it. I thought the story of Forgotten Land was pretty interesting and I just recently completed it. I also just really like what Elfilis looks like and it had some cool looking skills that could be fun in Smash. My number one most wanted Kirby character is Bugzzy, but as a random mid boss that didn’t even appear in Forgotten Land, I don’t think it has much a realistic chance sadly. Of all the story relevant characters not yet in Smash, I do quite like Elfilis.

 

[Opossum]

I'll be honest, I definitely think that comparing the skepticism surrounding Bayonetta's odds of returning to the ones surrounding Min Min and the ARMS franchise is...very off base and missing some pretty crucial context, because by actual comparative metrics, the Bayonetta franchise has pretty severely underperformed in the Switch era.

As others have said, and even ignoring the seiyuu stuff, Bayonetta 3 was an incredibly controversial game that sold a good deal less than the ports of Bayonetta 1 and 2 did, which is basically unheard of for Switch games, where every other franchise that touches the system has the new games instantly become some of the best selling ones in their respective franchises. And it's explicitly not a genre issue either: Astral Chain, a game in the same genre by the same developers, sold significantly more on its debut outing. The Cereza spin off ended up being one of the system's biggest flops when it comes to higher profile first party or first party adjacent releases.

This all wouldn't mean much in most cases, but considering Bayonetta is a third party franchise and the next game is very likely to scale back the number (at the very least for base game) of third party characters, it becomes much more noteworthy. It's one thing if Star Fox flops. It's another thing if a franchise that is being paid by Nintendo to be here flops to that degree. It's obviously not impossible for the benefits to outweigh the drawbacks and she gets in anyway, but those odds are nowhere near 100%. And if most people are on board with the idea that there will be a significant roster reduction next time around...well, they have to start somewhere.

As for me, I put her at about a 50/50.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’ve asked this a couple times but I think it keeps getting passed over but what does everyone think of Elfilis as a potential Kirby newcomer?

I think there's a lot of other Kirby characters with priority over them.

 

[Gengar84]

Hmm… I would have thought the recency of Forgotten Land would have given Elfilis an edge when compared to other Kirby bosses from the past. I guess I didn’t realize that it wasn’t a particularly popular character. Popularity does matter and if no one really cared about Elfilis as a character, it makes sense they’d prioritize others over it. Kind of a shame because I personally thought it was really cool but the other bosses could be fun too. I guess Marx is my second pick.