Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

I like the solution they reached with the Miis. If anything I'd want it to be expanded upon. I've thrown out some others but the additional Miis with the most potential for costumes would be Mii Mage and Mii Ninja. I'd also like it if Miis in general could get that updated look found in the new Switch Sports title because they look really nice and I think would blend into first-party Nintendo titles a whole lot better whether it's Mario Kart or Smash.

are they new miis though? cause the usual ones are still in it

 

[Gengar84]

Other "Grey Area" characters in the thin line between what is from a video game and what not are:

• Geralt (Book)
• Tal'Set (Comic Book)
• Sam & Max (Comic Book)
• Scott Pilgrim (Graphic Novel)
• Wreck-It Ralph (Movie)
• Chase McCain (Toy)
• Any video game incarnation from a real-life person [Historical domain or still alive] (self explicatory)
• The previous one but with fictional characters (Like Epic Mickey or Goku Xeno)
• Original characters made for a video game based on an external media (Like Android 21 or Tallion)
• And the opposite of that last one (Like Oogtar or Scratch and Grounder)

This kind of stuff prevents to the crew behind the franchise for breaking the biggest rule, with characters that are mostly know for a casual gamer rather then a hardcore pop culture loremaster. At least we can add the obvious picks like Goku or Shrek as Assist Trophies, Bosses, Mii Costumes, Spirits, or background characters for a stage.

Three gray area characters that come to mind that I think would be really cool inclusions in Smash are Lu Bu from Dynasty Warriors, Date Masamune from Sengoku Basara, and Turok from Turok, Dinosaur Hunter. The former two were real life historical figures that also have famous exaggerated video game depictions. The latter is a comic book character that is probably better known for his games on the N64 than his comics.

 

[JustPlainDan]

As a quick aside while I'm on the topic of classic NES stages for Smash I really think ROB deserves a homestage in the form of a Gyromite stage. It'd help make him feel more like a true video game character that way.

While I’m not the first person to suggest it, I would even take a stage where it’s an NES and two controllers for platforms. It’s kinda weird that ROB has yet to get anything else at this point.

 

[Chuderz]

are they new miis though? cause the usual ones are still in it

Are they not playable? I don't know I didn't do the playtest. I know the classic variation is still in it as evidenced by the direct presentation.

I'd be fine with the "new miis" replacing the old ones is all I'm saying. An option between the two would be ideal I guess but I never liked the classic Miis all that much when they were new and now they just look extremely dated. Sure they're iconic in their own right and I'm sure they have their fans for that but Nintendo should be able to offer a substantial amount of customization (even if it's overall less than what we had with classic miis) with the newer ones just fine. Again I think they'd look more seamless and natural when placed alongside Nintendo's IP.

While I’m not the first person to suggest it, I would even take a stage where it’s an NES and two controllers for platforms. It’s kinda weird that ROB has yet to get anything else at this point.

I'd take that too. It's really odd because if I'm not mistaken our robotic operating buddy is the only playable fighter without a series stage in the game. Unless you count Dr. Mario not having a specific stage I guess.

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve personally never liked Miis and I kind of wish all that development time went to something else but I understand that a lot of people love them so I’m fine with their inclusion. I personally love character creation in most games. I’m having a blast creating a ton of characters in WWE 2K22. I just never liked the look of Miis so I never really cared about any Mii additions to Smash. The few exceptions are the deluxe Miis that actually look like the character rather than a Mii in cosplay. Sans, Bomberman, and Cuphead were pretty cool additions. Skull Kid worked well with the Mii proportions in the base game.

 

[Ivander]

Three gray area characters that come to mind that I think would be really cool inclusions in Smash are Lu Bu from Dynasty Warriors, Date Masamune from Sengoku BasaraThe former two were real life historical figures that also have famous exaggerated video game depictions.

I would honestly say they are safe since for being exaggerated and being in the public domain, much like Dracula and some of the other Castlevania monsters like Medusa and Frankenstein's Monster/The Creature. Not to mention Kid Icarus' Medusa and Hades who are common wants.

 

[Gengar84]

I would honestly say they are safe since for being exaggerated and being in the public domain, much like Dracula and some of the other Castlevania monsters like Medusa and Frankenstein's Monster/The Creature. Not to mention Kid Icarus' Medusa and Hades who are common wants.

I’m hoping you’re right. If that’s not an issue, I personally feel like Lu Bu has just as much claim for a spot in Smash as fellow Koei-Tecmo character, Ryu Hyabusa. Hyabusa still has the advantage of a longer legacy dating back to the NES but I’d argue that the Warriors franchise has left a bigger impact on gaming overall than Ninja Gaiden. Several franchises in Smash have even had their own Warriors spinoff games already and Three Houses is getting a new one this year. This makes Nintendo’s fourth Warriors crossover and shows that the Warriors series is important to them. Pokémon Conquest was also a Warriors crossover in a way since it used characters from Samurai Warriors.

Unfortunately, Date Masamune has been way too much competition with other more notable Capcom characters to have any real chance. He has yet to even appear in a “VS Capcom” game, which is a shame.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I’m hoping you’re right. If that’s not an issue, I personally feel like Lu Bu has just as much claim for a spot in Smash as fellow Koei-Tecmo character, Ryu Hyabusa. Hyabusa still has the advantage of a longer legacy dating back to the NES but I’d argue that the Warriors franchise has left a bigger impact on gaming overall than Ninja Gaiden. Several franchises in Smash have even had their own Warriors spinoff games already and Three Houses is getting a new one this year. This makes Nintendo’s fourth Warriors crossover and shows that the Warriors series is important to them. Pokémon Conquest was also a Warriors crossover in a way since it used characters from Samurai Warriors.

Unfortunately, Date Masamune has been way too much competition with other more notable Capcom characters to have any real chance. He has yet to even appear in a “VS Capcom” game, which is a shame.

Using literary, mythological, or non-fictional figures that entered public domain and widly modified from their original counterparts is an instant win for Sora Ltd. and Bandai Namco.

 

[Ivander]

Unfortunately, Date Masamune has been way too much competition with other more notable Capcom characters to have any real chance. He has yet to even appear in a “VS Capcom” game, which is a shame.

Poor Date certainly has a hard time with Vs. Capcom. For Tatsunoko vs Capcom, he was wanted, but the Sengoku Basara developers said no at the time. He was requested for Marvel vs Capcom 3, but the director felt he would come across as too obscure. And obviously, Infinite had alot of problems in general. He appears to be a big want for Vs. Capcom from the fans and some of the people at Capcom, but he has not had the best luck in being allowed to join. Which just makes the fact of Sengoku Basara having a frickin' stage play of them crossing over with Devil May Cry all the more weirder.

Give us a Capcom-only Fighter game, Capcom. Then you could probably finally get him in.

 

[Gengar84]

Poor Date certainly has a hard time with Vs. Capcom. For Tatsunoko vs Capcom, he was wanted, but the Sengoku Basara developers said no at the time. He was requested for Marvel vs Capcom 3, but the director felt he would come across as too obscure. And obviously, Infinite had alot of problems in general. He appears to be a big want for Vs. Capcom from the fans and some of the people at Capcom, but he has not had the best luck in being allowed to join. Which just makes the fact of Sengoku Basara having a frickin' stage play of them crossing over with Devil May Cry all the more weirder.

Give us a Capcom-only Fighter game, Capcom. Then you could probably finally get him in.

Date is pretty high on my list for most wanted Capcom characters in Smash. He’s probably my second most wanted semi-realistic choice after Zero. I’d also love Pharaoh Man, Vega, and Guile but I feel like their chances are even lower than Masamune’s. Honestly though, I think Zero’s the only one of those that actually has a decent shot of making it in but I’d love to see any of them. At least Guile got an assist trophy.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Blame the Koei Tecmo lawsuits

 

[DarthEnderX]

I like the solution they reached with the Miis. If anything I'd want it to be expanded upon. I've thrown out some others but the additional Miis with the most potential for costumes would be Mii Mage and Mii Ninja.

Gojillion percent.

I’m hoping you’re right. If that’s not an issue, I personally feel like Lu Bu has just as much claim for a spot in Smash as fellow Koei-Tecmo character, Ryu Hyabusa. Hyabusa still has the advantage of a longer legacy dating back to the NES but I’d argue that the Warriors franchise has left a bigger impact on gaming overall than Ninja Gaiden.

I certainly DON'T support Lu Bu over Hayabusa, but I still have to "Um, ackchyually!" here:

The Dynasty Warriors series is a spinoff of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series. Which has been around longer than Ninja Gaiden.

 

[Gengar84]

Gojillion percent.

As long as they make a lot more deluxe Miis with complete head replacements, I’m totally fine with more. I feel like the deluxe Miis should just be the default at this point. They should also take that opportunity to add more music to the game. Imagine if we’d gotten Devil Trigger with Dante for example.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Gojillion percent.

But apart of those, there is a Kongillion percent of even more classes (Archer, Sportsman, and many more)

 

[Gengar84]

Gojillion percent.

I certainly DON'T support Lu Bu over Hayabusa, but I still have to "Um, ackchyually!" here:

The Dynasty Warriors series is a spinoff of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series. Which has been around longer than Ninja Gaiden.

That’s a good point actually. Honestly, I think both Ryu Hyabusa and Lu Bu are very deserving to be in Smash for their own reasons and I couldn’t fault Sakurai for going for either one. I’d personally go with Lu Bu for both personal preference as well as series relevance but I know I’m in the minority with that opinion. There’s always a chance we could get both. It wouldn’t be the first time a single company got multiple characters in one game after DLC. Maybe Hyabusa base game and Lu Bu as DLC?

 

[Ivander]

Blame the Koei Tecmo lawsuits

You mean the lawsuits that Capcom put against Koei Tecmo after Hyrule Warriors? That were in regards to something in the gameplay rather than the characters or setting?

The lawsuits don't stop Capcom from using Sengoku Basara nor does it prevent Koei Tecmo and it's Warriors series from doing crossovers. Sengoku Basara got a mobile game in 2019 and it appeared in Teppen in the form of 2 card sets and Oichi, one of it's characters. And the Warriors series is still very active to this day, especially with it including Legend of Zelda and Fire Emblem.
If anything, the only thing it gave Koei Tecmo was a notable bitterness towards Capcom.

 

[Wonder Smash]

That’s a good point actually. Honestly, I think both Ryu Hyabusa and Lu Bu are very deserving to be in Smash for their own reasons and I couldn’t fault Sakurai for going for either one. I’d personally go with Lu Bu for both personal preference as well as series relevance but I know I’m in the minority with that opinion. There’s always a chance we could get both. It wouldn’t be the first time a single company got multiple characters in one game after DLC. Maybe Hyabusa base game and Lu Bu as DLC?

I'm fine with that. All I want is Ryu Hayabusa.

 

[Stratos]

From the Soulcalibur series it is certain that Siegfried Schtauffen will come as newcomer.

 

[Wonder Smash]

From the Soulcalibur series it is certain that Siegfried Schtauffen will come as newcomer.

Either him or Mitsurugi.

 

[Sucumbio]

Or Taki with her super juggly .. knives

.>;

 

[chocolatejr9]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Well, they finally added that. Next is wallpapers, I think? Wonder if we'd still get game-based ones. We all want a Smash one...

 

[Sucumbio]

Yay wallpaper. The only console I have with wallpaper is my PS3 with Vanille

 

[Gengar84]

From the Soulcalibur series it is certain that Siegfried Schtauffen will come as newcomer.

I personally want Nightmare but Siegfried could potentially work as an echo. I’ve always been a huge fan of Astaroth as well but I don’t think he has any chance of getting in over more notable characters.

 

[Yamat08]

I'd take that too. It's really odd because if I'm not mistaken our robotic operating buddy is the only playable fighter without a series stage in the game. Unless you count Dr. Mario not having a specific stage I guess.

Even ROB's Spirit selection was a complete joke. They couldn't bother to at least include Hector? And Stack-Up couldn't even get a Spirit Battle due to being a World of Light shop item.

I would honestly say they are safe since for being exaggerated and being in the public domain, much like Dracula and some of the other Castlevania monsters like Medusa and Frankenstein's Monster/The Creature. Not to mention Kid Icarus' Medusa and Hades who are common wants.

Speaking of the Castlevania monsters, I was recently thinking back to Simon and Richter's reveal trailer. I remember being hyped for the fact that Dracula would be a boss, and several of the series' enemies could appear. Gave me some hope for Adventure Mode, or at least stage hazards...... instead, ALL of these characters just appear in the background, and that's it. And then I got to thinking: they do the same thing with Yggdrasil's Alter. They take the time to model all these enemies and other characters, and they do literally nothing except exist as aesthetics. The more I think about it, they were putting in the effort to make a potential platforming mode, but instead, they wasted time trying to make practically every new stage hazardless, which is rather pointless now that Omega and Battlefield variants exist, to say nothing of that hazardless option (even if it could've been made a bit more convenient to access).

I’m hoping you’re right. If that’s not an issue, I personally feel like Lu Bu has just as much claim for a spot in Smash as fellow Koei-Tecmo character, Ryu Hyabusa. Hyabusa still has the advantage of a longer legacy dating back to the NES but I’d argue that the Warriors franchise has left a bigger impact on gaming overall than Ninja Gaiden. Several franchises in Smash have even had their own Warriors spinoff games already and Three Houses is getting a new one this year. This makes Nintendo’s fourth Warriors crossover and shows that the Warriors series is important to them. Pokémon Conquest was also a Warriors crossover in a way since it used characters from Samurai Warriors.

Don't forget Samurai Warriors 3, with the Wii version including a Murasame Castle mode and Takamaru as a playable character (especially notable since the mode was practically a remake of Murasame Castle, even giving it a localization years before the game was released on the WiiU Virtual Console).

BTW, after playing the Nintendo crossovers, I've been interested in playing mainline Warriors games. You familiar with the series? I haven't gotten around to them, but I actually imported the Japan-only Switch ports of Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires, Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada, and Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate (as well as Pirate Warriors 3 Deluxe Edition, all of these releasing a few months ahead of Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition). Wondering if these are some pretty good entries into those series.

 

[Gengar84]

Even ROB's Spirit selection was a complete joke. They couldn't bother to at least include Hector? And Stack-Up couldn't even get a Spirit Battle due to being a World of Light shop item.


Speaking of the Castlevania monsters, I was recently thinking back to Simon and Richter's reveal trailer. I remember being hyped for the fact that Dracula would be a boss, and several of the series' enemies could appear. Gave me some hope for Adventure Mode, or at least stage hazards...... instead, ALL of these characters just appear in the background, and that's it. And then I got to thinking: they do the same thing with Yggdrasil's Alter. They take the time to model all these enemies and other characters, and they do literally nothing except exist as aesthetics. The more I think about it, they were putting in the effort to make a potential platforming mode, but instead, they wasted time trying to make practically every new stage hazardless, which is rather pointless now that Omega and Battlefield variants exist, to say nothing of that hazardless option (even if it could've been made a bit more convenient to access).


Don't forget Samurai Warriors 3, with the Wii version including a Murasame Castle mode and Takamaru as a playable character (especially notable since the mode was practically a remake of Murasame Castle, even giving it a localization years before the game was released on the WiiU Virtual Console).

BTW, after playing the Nintendo crossovers, I've been interested in playing mainline Warriors games. You familiar with the series? I haven't gotten around to them, but I actually imported the Japan-only Switch ports of Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires, Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada, and Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate (as well as Pirate Warriors 3 Deluxe Edition, all of these releasing a few months ahead of Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition). Wondering if these are some pretty good entries into those series.

Yeah, I used to play all of the mainline Dynasty Warriors games up until 9. Dynasty Warriors 9 tried to go open world and ended up looking really disappointing in a lot of ways because of that so I never picked it up. I also loved the first two Samurai Warriors games and the first three Warriors Orochi games. I think Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate is a good choice if you just want to play a crazy game with the most content but I think Dynasty Warriors 7 probably has the best story mode in the series. I haven’t played a lot of the more recent mainline Warriors games partially because there are so many other games to keep up with these days and partially because they no longer dub most of them in English. DW9 was dubbed but it was done poorly by a foreign dubbing studio.

 

[DarthEnderX]

From the Soulcalibur series it is certain that Siegfried Schtauffen will come as newcomer.

Nightmare.

 

[Chuderz]

I hope if Crash ever gets into the game they use the Crash 3 theme (Warped theme) for the trailer. It's just a much more exciting and celebratory piece of music that truly captures Crash's entire essence completely on top of being so infectiously catchy. When I hear it I imagine all the Crash's history whether it be the boss fights, the precarious platforming, the damn boulder/dinosaur chase sequences, the nitro drift racing and even the pogo stick! It's such an easy piece of music to turn into a rock remix too!

I know it's likely they'll go with the Crash 1 theme because Sakurai has a penchant for sticking with the classic interpretations but I also hope they use the Crash 4 design for him as well. Once the shock of the change wore itself off I came to like it better and feel like it brings Crash into the modern era very nicely and I actually prefer it at this point. I hope Sakurai will see things that way too especially since I think the Crash 4 design is closer to the Japanese Crash box art design.

Crash 4 design + Crash 3 (warped) Smash rock remix = The best possible reveal for Crash in my opinion.

Love what this creator did for their fanmade Smash remix of the tune in question. The backing of the distorted guitars taking over for most of the marimba chords, the drop offs at 0:47 and 1:03 followed by the strategic reintroduction to the marimba with the most chaotic melodic shred improvisation of the original melody I think actually possible from 1:07 to 1:20 being literal improv perfection and then the following slamming chords right after that that I only think just need real drums to back them up with the power that part of the song deserves! I love playing to this song on my drums and I do this really cool double floor tom flam accent on that part and it sounds absolutely immense and delivers the power that I'm yearning for on that part.

 

[Shroob]

Welp


Dragalia Lost is officially closing down.



Not really a surprise considering the turbulent era the game was in, but the game'll be deader than dead soon. Sad to see any game die.

 

[Dinoman96]

Remember when people thought Euden had a chance?

 

[Shroob]

Remember when people thought Euden had a chance?

That game was always weird in the sense that it felt like Nintendo just never... did anything with it.


It feels like Nintendo saw that mobile games were the big new thing, saw that Cygames was huge in that department in Japan, and just... didn't really do anything with the game and just expected it to print money on its own.



it's funny too, because Cygames as a company is notorious for not letting their games die until they're absolutely 100% done with them, Rage of Bahamut being an example of a game that existed from 2014 to current day, only recently getting a plug pull announcement long after they finished that game's story, so I have to imagine this is partially a Nintendo call for the plug pull.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's sad. I never played Dragalia Lost but any game becoming unplayable is sad.

I don't know if people quite understand how bad this is.

Dragalia Lost isn't just no longer getting new content. It's going to stop being playable soon.

It will become lost media.

 

[Shroob]

It's sad. I never played Dragalia Lost but any game becoming unplayable is sad.

I don't know if people quite understand how bad this is.

Dragalia Lost isn't just no longer getting new content. It's going to stop being playable soon.

It will become lost media.

Eh, debatable tbh.


Nowadays, if there's enough fan want, fans are insane at bringing the dead back to life. There's a lot of stories about completely dead games getting revived through unofficial fanworks or fans hosting their own servers.


Also, as long as things like the story, characters etc are documented, it can't really be lost media.



The biggest issue for this game going forward though, will be Nintendo. Cygames is pretty lax when it comes to what fans make with their IPs, which is in stark contrast to the Big N.

 

[Dinoman96]

It feels like, outside of a few exceptions like Mario Kart Tour and FE Heroes, Nintendo's mobile efforts have been one misfire/disappointment after another.

Dr. Mario World is another game of theirs that essentially got vaporized from existence.

 

[Shroob]

It feels like, outside of a few exceptions like Mario Kart Tour and FE Heroes, Nintendo's mobile efforts have been one misfire/disappointment after another.

Dr. Mario World is another game of theirs that essentially got vaporized from existence.

A shame that the two games that have survived the longest are the most predatory of the bunch.

 

[SPEN18]

A shame that the two games that have survived the longest are the most predatory of the bunch.

Well, the mobile games market is oppressively geared in that direction, unfortunately.

 

[Yamat08]

I'm just glad that, six years after dipping their toes in that market, Nintendo STILL seems to treat mobile gaming as an experimental side gig overall, with their main focus remaining on console gaming. I just wish they'd release offline Switch ports of their more notable mobile titles (like Dragalia Lost), though. It's sad that, not only a game, but an entire IP may end up just not existing after this.

 

[Staarih]

It feels like, outside of a few exceptions like Mario Kart Tour and FE Heroes, Nintendo's mobile efforts have been one misfire/disappointment after another.

Dr. Mario World is another game of theirs that essentially got vaporized from existence.

I think Nintendo never really got a grasp of the mobile market and since then they have just abandoned in trying to really pursue it. I think it was stated around Animal Crossing New Horizon's release that Nintendo was stepping away from the mobile market anyway. I feel like the Wii U's failure back in the days forced them to try and venture the massive mobile world, but with the Switch's success, it's clearly a non-priority for them today, if in their interest at all.

Still sad to see games shut down of course, Dr. Mario World wasn't a huge loss but Dragalia Lost being a completely new IP stings a bit. Hopefully a full-on console game or something is in the cards for it to not become dormant.

 

[chocolatejr9]

As probably the biggest advocate for Euden in Smash, the news hurts. I genuinely believed the game had more life in it than most expected, given how popular it is. But clearly, the money wasn't there...

I hope Nintendo at least continues the IP, but given it's co-owned with CyGames, I fear that may be easier said than done. Still though, we did EVENTUALLY get a console Granblue Fantasy game, so who knows?

 

[Geno Boost]

It's sad. I never played Dragalia Lost but any game becoming unplayable is sad.

I don't know if people quite understand how bad this is.

Dragalia Lost isn't just no longer getting new content. It's going to stop being playable soon.

It will become lost media.

Is it possible for that game to get archived or emulated? I think that could restore it.

 

[fogbadge]

As probably the biggest advocate for Euden in Smash, the news hurts. I genuinely believed the game had more life in it than most expected, given how popular it is. But clearly, the money wasn't there...

I hope Nintendo at least continues the IP, but given it's co-owned with CyGames, I fear that may be easier said than done. Still though, we did EVENTUALLY get a console Granblue Fantasy game, so who knows?

yeah but where could they possibly go with the story?

Spoiler

the number of all powerful evils we've had is quite a lot even for a jrpg