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No additional KH character would be competing with a Square Enix owned character because they're owned by Disney (we literally just got Sephiroth AND Sora on the same pass lol).
This is Raz erasure and I will not stand for it.
— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) March 11, 2022
I agree that RARE’s characters aren’t as mainstream as Master Chief but I don’t think they should be written off due to their history with Nintendo. Blizzard’s IP are right up there with Halo in terms of gaming history and popularity but haven’t been discussed much in terms of Smash. I feel like they are being overlooked personally. As for Kingdom Hearts, you’re right that they technically aren’t S-E so they wouldn’t be competing with 2B. My mistake. I do still think Chief and 2B both have a good chance but I don’t think they’re the only options for their companies.
"Okay that does it.!" It would be really cool to see Master Cheif with the Crystal Sword and the Needler (& other machinery) in SSB6. Tbh Fox & Krystal from Star Fox: Assault had really cool a** Gattling Guns. Hint Hint Nintendo.
Yeah, Crash & his sister Coco bring back so many memories from the Xbox (&/or Playstation) days. They would be really cool playable characters aswell.
Those were my thoughts as well. That’s why I feel like a character like Lara Croft who has a much longer legacy might have a better chance. Still, I don’t think anything is off the table and I never want to write any character off.
I mean, Joker got in Ultimate and Cloud and Sephiroth only had minor appearances in Kingdom Hearts and spinoff games. I don’t think that’s much of a barrier at this point. Still, I do think relevance to Nintendo’s history should be a factor to consider for inclusion but no longer a barrier to prevent entry entirely.
Joker did appear in a 3DS game before he was announced for Smash Ultimate and like you said, Cloud and Sephiroth appeared in other games before then (with FFVII being released on the Switch before Sephiroth's announcement). So far, every character in Smash has had a previous appearance on a Nintendo console before and that's how I prefer it.
& I'm not gonna lie I read this and in my mind I was like, I just remembered that one scene from Victorious (2010)
(SSBB) "Oh, so sorry about that , wrong thread.!" Teleports away to next chapter
I don’t think those relatively minor appearances really make those characters feel like “Nintendo characters” in the same way a character with a history like Mega Man or Simon does. I don’t really see why showing up as a cameo in a side game changes anything.
It all counts as appearances on Nintendo consoles before Smash. Don't see what's wrong with that.
They don't necessarily have to feel like Nintendo characters but they still count as appearances on Nintendo consoles before they were in Smash.
Yes, I also prefer honorary Nintendo characters and multiplatform characters over ones that are more associated with non-Nintendo consoles. I was never a fan of Cloud, Joker, and Sephiroth being in Smash either but I gotta be fair, they do have appearances on Nintendo consoles. So rather than be negative about it, I just look at the positives.
The point is that "appearing on Nintendo consoles" isn't really the point. It'll probably help business negotiations if they're done with a company Nintendo has already worked with, but to count any Nintendo appearance as a reason someone gets in Smash can get beyond ridiculous.
It’s just that it’s kind of a weird gatekeeping barrier at this point. Most people aren’t aware of the spinoff games so the general public is still going to see them as PlayStation characters anyway. What benefit is there to requiring an appearance on a Nintendo console at this point? It would make sense if the character had some relevance to Nintendo but for someone like Joker, it just feels like an arbitrary restriction.
Nobody is saying that they wanted those characters in Smash because of those games but rather, those games provided a way for them to appear in the Smash series.
Until there's something indicates that a character can get in without having appearances on Nintendo consoles, that's just the way it is right now. Some people like to dismiss it like it's irrelevant but Sakurai does care about a character's appearance on Nintendo consoles more than people think.
I'd love to have Spring Man, but he really should be a Ken-style echo based on Min Min. I instead decided to go with some unique newcomer options.
There's also so much stuff on Nintendo that there really aren't a lot of franchises that never touched Nintendo hardware, so the options to break your mindset are seriously limited.
Yeah, none of us really know for sure. It just doesn’t make sense to me to keep that restriction anymore. If you’re right, I can’t really complain because the chances of the Battletoads, Fulgore, and Sarah Kerrigan go way up if Master Chief is out of the equation.
If Wonder Smash counts anything, Master Chief is still possible because he's a Minecraft skin and showed up in Fortnite.
The options aren't that limited. There's still plenty of series that hasn't touched Nintendo consoles.
Well, that AND, they really were such a tease w/ The Assist Trophy Version of HIM. He was one of the characters that really caught my eye back then as well as Ribbon Girl. I really (3x), would like to see all 3 of them get some Sakurai love in SSB6.
Why'd you list Sephiroth? I mean, Cloud is one thing, but by the time Sephiroth was announced for Smash, Final Fantasy VII was already on the Switch (officially making Cloud and Sephiroth's game of origin no longer a Sony/PC exclusive).
www.youtube.com
www.youtube.com
I'd acknowledge that Cloud and Joker's Nintendo appearances are some pretty extreme forms of reaching. Sometimes, though, the other side does go a bit too far. A lot of people, to this day even, try to claim that Snake is a Sony character (especially since he mostly represents the Metal Gear Solid series and not the original Metal Gear, which was itself not really Nintendo-focused aside from a lousy port of an MSX title). However, they seem to conveniently forget that The Twin Snakes (a Game Cube-exclusive remake of the first MGS) was a thing not long before he blew up the internet in Brawl's trailer.
Noted noted. &Jade "Intristeeeeeeng"
I couldn’t remember the timing of whether the FFVII port or Sephiroth came out first. Everything kind of blends together at my age lol. I’ll check out those Battletoads videos, thanks for the links. I was never able to get past stage 4 myself but I loved replaying the first three stages so much even if I sucked lol. Same goes for Battlemaniacs on the SNES. I was able to beat Battletoads & Double Dragon at least because that game was much easier. I wish there was a way to play that one these days.Why'd you list Sephiroth? I mean, Cloud is one thing, but by the time Sephiroth was announced for Smash, Final Fantasy VII was already on the Switch (officially making Cloud and Sephiroth's game of origin no longer a Sony/PC exclusive).
BTW Gengar84, have you checked out Inugami Korone doing a playthrough of the first Battletoads game? Might be worth your while, if only to get some perspective on how the original game is like in Japan (one thing I found amusing was that they kept pretty much every name untranslated, resulting in names spelled in Roman lettering popping up in the middle of standard Japanese text).
【クリア耐久】ド★初見！FC版バトルトード（BattleToads）【戌神ころね/ホロライブ】
Play Game : BattleToads ( FC )タグ #生神もんざえもん---------------------------------------------ころねTwitter▶https://twitter.com/inugamikorone---------------...She never managed to complete it, though (limited continues and no save/passwords were just evil in older games), but she intends to continue it later. Incidentally, she's also been doing a playthrough of another Rare title, Banjo-Kazooie (though some might already know this if they've been paying attention to some of the memes it spawned). It was delayed for over a year due to technical issues (she's streaming the game natively from an N64), but now she's just about ready to do the finale.２【クリア耐久】ド★初見！FC版バトルトード（BattleToads）【戌神ころね/ホロライブ】※途中リタイア※またリベンジします※
Play Game : BattleToads ( FC )タグ #生神もんざえもん---------------------------------------------ころねTwitter▶https://twitter.com/inugamikorone---------------...
I'd acknowledge that Cloud and Joker's Nintendo appearances are some pretty extreme forms of reaching. Sometimes, though, the other side does go a bit too far. A lot of people, to this day even, try to claim that Snake is a Sony character (especially since he mostly represents the Metal Gear Solid series and not the original Metal Gear, which was itself not really Nintendo-focused aside from a lousy port of an MSX title). However, they seem to conveniently forget that The Twin Snakes (a Game Cube-exclusive remake of the first MGS) was a thing not long before he blew up the internet in Brawl's trailer.
I at least want a game where that’s the main focus. I’d love a super expansive mode like Subspace Emissary that I could play co-op with my brother and see all of the characters actually interacting together in some meaningful way. I feel like Sakurai gave up on the idea too easily rather than work on improving it. It was a little rough around the edges at first but I feel like it had potential to be something truly amazing if they worked on the parts that weren’t quite as strong and emphasized what was great about the mode.
Seconding this. One of the biggest issues with Subspace aside from gameplay issues was the boring locations and enemies. I wish that we got to go to some awesome locations that felt like they were truly inspired by various gaming locations. Imagine if instead of just getting beaten up by a ton of OC enemies in a bland area with little personality you actually were in places like say Spear Pillar or Dracula's Castle.
Yeah, I agree completely. Some original worlds and enemies would be cool like they do for the end worlds in Kingdom Hearts but the majority of the content should come from existing games. That is the whole point of a crossover like Smash. Another area I feel could use more balancing is the knock back on higher difficulties. A lot of the time, enemies just knocked you all over the screen. It was still a lot of fun on Normal but I didn’t play on harder difficulties much for that reason.
I'm actually of the opinion that while Ultimate is the most balanced Smash game that people really oversell it. It also has its issues and problematic characters.
I have seen many people wax nostalgic about the gameplay itself, so it obviously had its fans, but I do agree that some of its high regard is still there because the idea of it is so good and the cutscenes were executed well enough that they still resonate with people.
