New ZSS player switching from Mario. Help!

[KinGly]

Sup guys, I guess I'll introduce myself real quick. I'm a B+ tier mario player from Bossier City, LA (Northwest Louisiana), and I feel as though I've kinda plateaued recently and haven't been enjoying the game like I used to. I was talking to one of our top players and we were discussing a possible character switch. I brought up DK, Ness, ddd, Ganon, and a few others, but in the end, I couldn't decide, and I just asked him to pick someone for me. I told him I wanted someone unique, and they had to be my playstyle. He told me to go ZSS. Now, I play a lot of characters, but I've never given zero suit much time. Nonetheless, I told him I'd go all ZSS next tourney.

If you guys could help me out, I'd appreciate it. I need to know some character specific tech, kill moves (I believe 2nd hit of fair, bair, f-smash, and down angled f-tilt), combos, etc.
My main thing I want to focus now is the combo game, cause I know ZSS has some crazy combo options. If anyone could give me some basic combos on different fall speeds/weights I'd be really thankful. Characters I'm likely to fight include kirby, marth, ness, Yoshi, game and watch, fox, captain falcon, dedede, and Ganon if that's helpful.
Also, if there are any bad matchups I should avoid it'd be useful to know since I don't know ZSS's matchup spread.

Thanks in advance. If I do well and/or enjoy her, y'all can expect to see me around a bit more, being scrubby and whatnot. Cheers!

 

[Legit]

Unlike most other chars, they aren't really any B&B combos that always work on any character. All of her combos depend on fall speed, weight, but most importantly DI. If your opponents DI properly, ZSS gets relatively small combos. If opponents DI improperly, they can easily eat 60+% in one combo.

Dsmash and Side-B are my favorite combo starters. Her basic combo game involves juggling the opponent with uairs and occasionally nairs. When they get out of range above you, upb them to pull them back down, then tech chase. Dair, while somewhat dangerous, is a great combo move as long as you can read their DI afterward (if your opponent doesn't DI, you can dair again at low-mid% against chars with normal fall speed). Sadly, ZSS's throws are awful, and its highly unlikely you'll get any good combos off her throws unless your opponent has autistic DI. If you're trying to combo out of a throw, use dthrow and pray. If a platform is above you, use uthrow to throw them onto it and tech chase. Uthrowing fast fallers at mid% or higher can usually give you a followup. I wish I could tell you more but the combo possibilities are near endless with ZSS and it's probably a lot more fruitful to just play and try out some stuff for yourself. I don't really recommend testing combos out on CPUs though, as DI is an extremely important variable in ZSS's combo game.

As far as matchups go, out of the ones you listed, the ones that will probably give you the most trouble are fox, falcon, and marth. You definitely want to avoid spacies, and possibly falcon as well. Marth is doable as long as you space moves properly and stay out of Marth's range until you get a hit. But once again, AVOID SPACIES!!!! The other chars you listed aren't bad to fight against. AVOID SPACIES!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lust for Glory]

Well, seeing I'm pretty new to ZSS myself (maybe a good 5 months) and I'm not that well with frame data, I'll let others help in that area. And I want to say I also used to be a Mario main who switched to ZSS after plateauing, so I can relate to some changes and what could /possibly/ help you. If you haven't browsed through the 3.5 discussion thread and the petition thread (ignore all the arguing and try to extract what will help you), I suggest you take some time to do so.

First off, many people like to consider ZSS as a "baby Falcon". She's a very movement based character. Lots of dash dancing, wavedashing, JC grabs (albeit I dont believe they are any good bar d throw and u throw below a platform), and tech chases. Couple of things not mentioned but can be abused is b reversals (paralyzer and side b) and wavebouncing (i am a huge advocate for this tech paired with side b), but some do fine without them.

There really isnt much character specific tech. Last patch, we had Dash cancelled paralyzer (DCP), but alas it was removed. I just think I should mention a few tricks that ZSS has that most people would not know.

Down b is restored the second you get hit. It's a nice recovery move that lets you travel quite far horizontally. It is important to note that you can jump quite early out of down b, so there's that option.

Also, ZSS's has good recovery options in her tether. Specifically, up b. Jumping and then up b'ing almost immediately makes ZSS shoot up quite high, making it look as if she double jumped. Great if you want to recover low.

When recovering, try not to get too close to the stage unless you plan to wall jump. ZSS's tether will not grab the ledge if you're too far in. I believe there was a picture somewhere on the boards, but I cannot seem to find it. My rule of thumb is AT LEAST recovering when the edge is at a 90 degree angle give or take 5 degrees. I suggest you experiment with this to better understand it yourself.

As for combos, @ Legit covered this pretty well. Also, if you like to be flashy, divekick (the attack out of down b) is a really nice way to end an string of aerials.

As for MUs, Spacies and Falcon are the toughest from what I've seen. Fire Emblem is quite problematic, but it's doable. Shiek and Squirtle are annoying as well. Since I'm a solo ZSS main (cant find a secondary in 3.5 that I like), I suggest practicing your tech chases out of down throw on spacies (preferably Fox) if you plan to be a solo main.

Things worth mentioning:

If you happen to approach a grounded opponent with an aerial that isnt bair or dair, PRACTICE making the move come out as late as possible, as you will most likely get shield grabbed if you do it too high on their shield. Learn to space aerials well, and try not to approach with then if possible.

Another thing, i FIRMLY believe ZSS is a darn good edge guarder, specially with down smash (punish the missed sweet spot), and dropzone fair (to reliably gimp a recovering opponent. It is worth noting that you should NOT go off stage if you dont feel confident about landing a hit, as ZSS is punished HARD if shes forced to recover while the opponent is on the ledge (#TetherProblems).

I constantly play a G&W and Ganon sub main with a pocket Ness. I can confidently say ZSS wins vs all three of them, and I find Ness to be the most difficult of the 3, as wavebounced Pk fires can really mess with someone. However, by no means is it a bad matchup. I suggest to laser camp and fish for side b's and bairs when possible, and play a mind game between dash dance -> grab and dash dance -> wd back -> d smash. As for yoshi, you really wont be comboing him too much, so just try to sneak in stray hits, and avoid overcommitting to combos, as that DJ armor is annoying.

Good luck with ZSS at that tourney!

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Throws = tech chase(good di) or combo(bad di)

 

[Legit]

Throws = tech chase(good di) or combo(bad di)

Actually, at many % (if not, most %) DI'ing properly causes the opponent to escape a tech chase AND followup. Against fast fallers, it's pretty much always a tech chase.

 

[KinGly]

Thanks for all the quick responses guys, I really appreciate it. As far as matchups go, I'm a bit bummed she loses to Marth and falcon, as those are arguably Mario's two worst matchups (Marth mario is like 70:30; falcon is around 60:40), but as far as spacies go I firmly believe that mario has a winning matchup against fox and falco (haven't played against wolf much), so I can always keep him around for that, though this next tourney is only ZSS.

Anyone have any clue what the kirby MU is? I fight that stupid blob pretty often considering my training partner plays no one else, and I was on the verge of resigning to Melee yesterday from the stupid crap he can do (I hit him with a fully charged waft and he grab armor swallowcided!!!). Thanks again for all the help, mario boards are dead so this is quite the shock

Edit: stage choice would be really helpful as well.

 

[Lust for Glory]

I dont know much about Kirby, but it seems like Kirby would be a bit annoying to fight.

What I see as a problem is that Kirby practically gets free kills when ZSS is off stage. As for Kirbycides, just bait him, wd back and d smash, using the air that sucks you in as a boost to get closer to him. Pretty situational, but it's worked in the times I've needed it. If they're on the ledge waiting for it, count 5 ledge grabs and go for your free d smash because their invincibility is gone.

The best i see for the MU is "laming" Kirby out with a bunch of Paralyzers (although i believe they can be crouched) and side b. Just like most other bad match ups lol.

As for stages, almost any stage works for ZSS. To be honest, the only stages I dislike with her are Dreamland and Lylat. Anything else has and should work just fine with her. Just CP your opponent to a stage that doesnt fit their character(s).