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"new" yoshi. vids up

darkgirku

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
252
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
So my brother Angel has always played yoshi only since the beginning of smash. We've never gone to any tournaments (except one...) and we've never had any vids up, but we finally decided to record some... even if they are in bad digital camera quality...but they are still legit i guess.

Check em out.

Angel (yoshi) vs EEF (Falco)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya_5ZsYXiD4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g72RvDhOBQ&feature=channel

Yeah, we only have two vids up, but we did record more. They just aren't uploaded yet, and might not be for a while. But eventually, I'll have more vids of Angel's yoshi up. There two are both my brothers, so the gameplay is probably a little skewed since we know each others' playstyles too well. Hopefully we'll be able to start going to tournaments and get this yoshi beastly =D

Anyways, helpful critiques are welcome.
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW SNAP I'm excited! :D

Okay, funny story, I have a very very good friend named Angel who I taught how to play Yoshi, but that was for Brawl ANYWAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

So yeah, I was kinda scared I was gonna see really slow unintelligent play at first, but I'm pleasantly surprised that both of you were very competent for your skill level.

As far as some general advice, I would say Angel should turn his focus primarily to the basics: edgehogging when he can, edgeguarding when necessary, projectile (crouch) powershielding, basic spacing and basic risk/reward management. Like most newer Yoshis, he's focusing a lot on the techy stuff and that's good that he can do that, but it won't help him at all if he doesn't have a solid foundation for his game.

On a positive note, he is very good at melee powershielding and supershielding. Also, I never thought of lightshield versus Falco's shine, that mess is brilliant. If he can also learn how to abuse supershielding with his tech skill and speed, then I think that would boost his game tremendously against some characters.

But yeah, for now what I'm seeing is way too many jumping tricks and platform stuff and not enough of a basic game to really take his otherwise great tech skill and put it to real use. If he steps up his decision making, for example, he will also do himself a favor. For instance, first stock of the first video, he should have been hogging that edge so fast it shouldn't have been funny when Falco got knocked off. Simple things like that and how he decides to spend his double jump, also. DJC is especially dangerous against Falco because of his high knockback moves and Angel ate up plenty of punishes and interrupts.

Other than the glaring weaknesses in the foundation of his gameplay, I have to say I'm looking forward to what he will be doing in the future. Keep it up! :D
 

Lordydennek

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
987
Location
Columbia Missouri
No tilts and combos?? Ftilt against falco is amazing. I mean you got the dtilt but there needs to be more. that and more sheild pressure with tilts and jabs. also uair can start beastly combos. and is good when ur under platforms. that falco plays really campy imo i would be really aggressive. avoid the fair in approaches unless ur coming from above or behind. its too easily lasered. the nair is best. djc nair over the lasers is great. otherwise it looks freakin great. ur tech skill is impressive! just need to meld that into ur combat skill
 

Nogzor'z

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
290
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
Thanks for the comments guys.... good advice too.
I have very little tourney experience, or experience playing anyone besides my brothers, so when i play either of them, my mind tells me that they know me a little too well. so i skew my playstyle pretty hard to keep predictability low when i should probably be "sticking to the basics" as Shiri mentioned.

Anyways... hopefully I can get a lot more vids up and use everyone's critique to help me play better overall.
 

yoshiiscool

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
352
Location
Murfreesboro, TN (east Pa during summer)
What's good? Yoshi vids, eh? Well, I don't really mean to be the mean guy, but I hope you'll take all the negative things I'm about to say as constructive criticism(that's what it is). It's kinda what I do >.> Let's bust this essay out!! Yoshi time!! Holy ****, WARNING - this is a long *** post.


Okiedokie, well first off, I'd semi like to thank Shiri for setting me up, and most of what I say will just be elaborating on his completely vague "foundation" concept. No offense Shiri, but I don't think that really helped much at all, it kinda seemed like "Good stuff, try doing better next time." xD Also, as prolly everyone on this board knows, I'm pretty against powershielding, since it relies on the opponents varied laser height, making it too situational to use, and c'mon, it just takes so long, you could be doing better things... bleh, anyways I'll actually say stuff about the dude who this topic is about now.


I'll start off with something I find very important that you can work on. I've told quite a few people this before, even including mind trick I believe (he's pretty good, I approve of him). You really... REALLY, need to focus on your movement. I know it looks cool, and Yoshi's bein all slip-slidey and ******, but most of your platform things were completely unnecessary, and severely harmed your game. There's a few reasons why it's bad: Number one - wavedashing/landing is hella laggy so you're leaving yourself a lot more open than you think you are, two - you had ample time to approach, maybe throw eggs, I dunno, do SOMETHING other than sit on the other side of the screen and waveland DJ waveland DJ waveland, three - you became extremely predictable with it, and I was reading your movements within the first match. Hmm, he's double jumping up to a platform... wonder what's gonna happen next... wow a waveland, I'm totally caught off guard, what are the chances he'll doublejump back to the same platform to waveland again? I'm sorry, but the amount of unnecessary movement you had with your platform tricksies could've been very well focused to keeping pressure on that bird, and because of that, lasers out of your face.

You're also lacking in your approach and follow up game. To me, it seemed like you were more focused on forcing your way in on the Falco, rather than attempting to trick him/bait and punish, or outspace, or pressure him into a bad situation. By forcing, I mean it looks like you just kinda threw out whatever you could, and if it hit, good ****, if it didn't, aw darn. I think my theory can be proven by your follow ups. You never use any efficient follow ups, and you fail to properly punish when you've forced the Falco to the ground, or a teching situation. It seemed like you were almost surprised you actually hit with something :/. When falco is grounded, remember jab reset to anything is your friend, and a falco on a platform above you is great to poke around with u-airs, or even the d-air you used once (just try to make sure either falco's above 60% so you can combo d-smash from it, or you cancel it on the edge, otherwise it's likely you'll be punished).

For approaching, you want to keep with Falco, so that he can't get lasers off safely, and don't be afraid to use your f-air, or bair, as both are safe if spaced properly. Another thing to remember for approaching is that you have the dash grab, and if you use it enough, it can keep your opponent from feeling safe in his shield, meaning more rolls/sidesteps for you to manipulate and punish. I'd refrain from using egg lay, as it can't be followed up on, and does meh damage. Oh, and following up attacks you hit with, if you can get an u-air, go for it, if you know you can't get an u-air, go for the u-tilt, and if you're unsure, f-tilt is your quickest option. You wanna try to set them up to a situation where you can force a tech or a flub to punish, or combo directly into a d-smash. DO NOT FOLLOW UP WITH D-TILT, THIS MOVE IS STRICTLY FOR EDGEGUARDING, AND YOU WILL BE PUNISHED FOR IT IN THE FUTURE.

Let's see... When you're using eggs to pressure, never throw them directly where the person is, you want to put them in a position you guess your opponent will be in, or using them to cover up your own ***, because people fear the egg. Spamming eggs from the edge is also a viable tactic, if you're good enough at it. Speaking of eggs, you do a lot of lame shield stuff. Supershielding is useful when you use it on attacks and get a quick u-smash or something out of it, but is still situational, remember it, but don't focus on it. The main problem I had with your shieldplay was... what the hell was with all the sidesteps, and the rolls and just being in your shield at unnecessary times? You never want to sidestep right in front of a falco, and please try to get out of the habit of rolling after a flubbed aerial, it doesn't help really. Good players won't actually fall for the rolls to let you out of shield, but pretty much sit there waiting to eat you for rolling to try to get out, so mix it up a bit, sometimes try just regularly unshielding into a jab or f-tilt to catch them off guard.

Your edgeguarding wasn't really on point, but eh... I can't say mine is particularly stellar either. I've been getting a lot more success lately by just being patient, and aiming better with eggs, better spacing with d-smash at the edge so you don't eat a firebird/illusion. Try to be careful with just CCing the recovery moves, it looked like you gave up on some edgeguards after missing eggs or something, I dunno. Main thing is to try to keep it safe though, don't do anything too daring off the edge like I saw some of your n-airs and stuff. Reverse N-airs **** illusion/phantasm, but are iffy vs the upbs, so just be careful.

I feel bad for just kinda laying it in on you, so I'm just gonna say, I didn't think you were entirely bad, and you seemed to have Yoshi physics down, kinda, just work on spacing and smarter movements. Also, good job using pullback on the f-smash a few times, w00t! >.> Sorry... I'm really not a ****.

I'll be here waiting for any questions you have, considering you don't hate me ^^. Peace.

Moo~
 

darkgirku

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
252
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
You know, I probably should've gotten the johns outta the way in the first post, but lol...

These 2 matches, to be honest, probably aren't very good representations of his skill, besides the tech skill mainly. because, as I said, they are our first vids. We, sad to say, probably tried showing off to the youtube audience toooo much that night :p
And we already mentioned the skewedness of the matchup play, because thats almost literally all he plays against. myself AND EEF both kinda main falco(I do some captain falcon too o:) P: He was switchin' it up a bit y0.

Nonetheless, good matchup advice.. I Always try to get him to look up more stuff about matchps, since being a low tier, they are kinda pretty important, right? lol. But yeah, thanks. We'll use that info to sharpen teh skills =D

Only thing I wanna say about your post, Moo, is that egg lay definitely CAN be followed up. xD
we'll have more vids up soon (eventually <_<)
 

Mind Trick

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
670
Location
Amsterdam, NL
first stock first match was pretty hot, sliding egghog followup would be even hotter though :D
dont listen to moo, slippy slidey yoshi is the way to go :p
the approaching instead of baiting and the followups definitely need some work though, your ending your hit strings way too early by using stuff like dtilt, egglay or nair instead of upair.

approaching falco (or any char really) is generally a bad idea because of his shutdown on yoshi with his lasers and other ******** stuff, if you got them pressured though and momentum going, then you can just go crazy on that birds *** :D

good stuff on the powershielding, need to get that down too.
shield drop is probably a good thing for you to add to your repertoire, to avoid getting caught on platforms.
 

EEF

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
16
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
Even though it's already been said, I feel like I have to stress that those 2 matches were hardly even moderate when it comes to how well angel can play as yoshi

he usually wins about 60% or more of our matches, and he usually gimps me often. I feel like he'll get better reactions after more videos are posted. From my perspective, it seems like the only reason I won those two matches was because our little yoshi was a little camera shy, if you know what I mean ;)
 

Nogzor'z

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
290
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
I actually kind of understood what shiri was saying with his "vague" comments, but anyway... i did happen to stop being TOO much slippy slidey yoshi recently and instead throw some eggz, but i just cant completely stop it.. it'z wayyy too fun.

I would start talking about approaches i would most likely come off sounding stupid, so all i will say is that i do need to work on my tech chasing and jab resets. I seem to forget about jab resets entirely sometimes.

the only thing i can say about lasers is that i hate them. Hopefully my work on DJC countering> Nair through a laser approach will become consistent enough, although i dont know if i actually did it in these vids. They aren't loading well for some reason so I cant watch them. =(

On the topic of eggs, i feel completely fine with my egg throw usage, maybe these vids were bad examples for eggs but whatever.

Oh.. the shield rolls are a side effect that i've obatined from using light shield. On stages like FD or dreamland, i'll use light shield when i'm in a tight spot to slide away, but i'd prefer not to fall off stages so i try to release shield and run, or roll before im off stage. Unfortunately i've kept doing that even when i use regular shield.

Also, i have been working on breaking that habit of sidestepping after a flubbed aerial. hopefully it wont come up as much as i practice more. I've tried even using f-smash after hitting falco's shield, and the pullback sometimes allows me to avoid a grab or shine out of shield. But obviously that has some risk involved too.

Edgeguarding-i'll just john and blame it on me only playing my bro's but i'll still look into improving it.

Shield drop--On Yoshi's story, when i was sitting in my shield on the platform, That was me trying to shield drop....Odd, i usually can pull it off pretty consistently, but at that moment i couldn't do it, so i became frustrated and tried until my shield came close to shattering.

I don't Hate you lol'z, and I will continue to appreciate Constructive criticism...No matter how constructive.

Slippy Slidey Yoshi is still for the win though. :p
 

Lordydennek

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
987
Location
Columbia Missouri
Moo you think the fair is good to approach with? I get lasered unless im coming from above and if the falco is smart he'll sit under a platform maybe on fd but on story there's not enough room. nair i think is better. or bair
 

yoshiiscool

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
352
Location
Murfreesboro, TN (east Pa during summer)
It's all about how you use it, really. You can't just throw it out there randomly, it has to be done right. If a Falco is just standing around and you go for a f-air, it's pretty easy for the Falco to time an u-tilt and destroy you in a combo afterwards. You have to do your best to bait a roll/sidestep, or read laser approaches to know where your buddy's gonna be. Gotta remember Falco's not perfectly safe when he's lasering. Also, f-air is perfectly safe on shield when spaced from either side of Falco, whereas n-air can be punished with a JCshine out of shield, which is extremely dangerous.

B-air is a good option as well, but unless the falco is at high damage or on a platform, it's not going to lead you to much and it can also be CCed into shine at even high damages. N-air also suffers from this problem of not leading to much, though I do have my own set of tricks for following up n-airs.

Anyways, for the Falco matchup in general, you're gonna wanna stick with spaced f-airs to get in close, and bait something either into a f-air or f-tilt and follow up from there. Oh, and don't forget to mix in some grabs too, just to keep them afraid, that'll make it easier on you to bait sidesteps. Well, this is just what I've had success with, and I do so so love this matchup xD

Strategies also depend on stages. For instance platform stages you want to be more campy and egg smartly, and try to make him make mistakes approaching for you to punish. FD on the other hand, is where you make every effort to get to him so that he can't camp you. There's a lot of tips I could try to give you, but I hate posting a lot of situational crap on the boards. If you really wanna know how I approach, I can try to post something, but I'd rather you just like msg me on AIM or something xD
 

darkgirku

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
252
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
If you mix up with grabs, might as wel mix up with neutral B as well. air grab ftw. can't follow up as well, but you can keep em pressured.
 
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