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New videos for critique before SMYM9

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
ok. This is the last practice I'm getting before the tournament, and I really want to make it out of pools. Do your worst. First 3 videos are the set against pika, last 3 videos are the set against DK.
Watch more than one video, seriously, because some videos I look terrible and some videos you can see potential.
Not quite sure why he uploaded my name as "M3K", I just use that tag as a joke, so don't take it wrong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKnlTpARefE&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS8KX4IQO10&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBbNFXsF_IU&fmt=18


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t8mtejQccI&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q4FmC_bD4E&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOxgaUuqVCY&fmt=18
cheers
 

I.B

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
1,704
Location
Torontario
I watched 1 of the vs. Pika vids and 1 of the vs. DK vids, and I have a few tips...

vs. pika:
- edgeguard w/ ledgehop bair
- dont play around the edge too much because Pikas like to camp the edge and get quick kills on Fox, so be careful

vs. DK:
- more drillshine combos and such

When the match was in a neutral position, I watched you give up some good opportunities for a solid approach. Work on approaching. I really discourage camping if you're not a pro because it really limits yourself in terms of improvement. Pay attention to the details of pressuring and controlling space, work on approaching and applying the pressure, and you should see some significant differences in your gamplay.

Good luck at SMYM9!
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
I watched 1 of the vs. Pika vids and 1 of the vs. DK vids, and I have a few tips...

vs. pika:
- edgeguard w/ ledgehop bair
- dont play around the edge too much because Pikas like to camp the edge and get quick kills on Fox, so be careful

vs. DK:
- more drillshine combos and such

When the match was in a neutral position, I watched you give up some good opportunities for a solid approach. Work on approaching. I really discourage camping if you're not a pro because it really limits yourself in terms of improvement. Pay attention to the details of pressuring and controlling space, work on approaching and applying the pressure, and you should see some significant differences in your gamplay.

Good luck at SMYM9!
I'm almost afraid to approach a DK because if I get shield grabbed (especially by someone as good as ripple) my stock is gone, so I tend to play a campy style. What opportunities to approach did I miss? Can you give me a time?
Thanks for the critique, and I will certainly try my best to place at this tourny
I got rocked pretty bad at event 52 ^.^
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
Dude 0_o ...Ripple *****!!!!!!!

It must've been very scary playing him!!! He has very appropriate mindgames for Foxs' I see!!!
..........
he lives 35-40 minutes from me, iplay him like once every other week
playing somebody at a video game is never scary
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
Well I watched your matches with DK. I think you have to slow down and start watching your foe more. At times it just seemed you was just throwing out aerials hoping they would connect. Oh and I understand how nerve recking it must be to fight a skilled foe like that but keep in mind that you shouldn't be afriad of getting shield grabbed once you become more comfortable in your tech skill.

Speaking of which I saw you do a few waveshines after you claimed a stock, but I think you should use it a lot more in battle. I recommend using more dairs (which are like my trademark move with fox lol) to waveshines because dairs can't be crouch canceled and they have 0 knock back. Nair, on the other hand, is an ok lead in to waveshines but its only slightly reliable at low percents since nair knocks your foe up in the air, making the shine much less effective. Nevertheless, a blend of the two, along with grabs makes you less predictable.

Oh and another thing that I noticed (mainly because I use to do it long ago) was when you would get knocked in the air above your foe you would double jump while off the screen and then come down above your opponent with a dair or something. Don't do this...bad idea! If you ever get knocked high into the air like that its best to DI away from your foe, and land safely. If you have to, even DI of the level and grab the ledge if need be. Anything to restart your approach basically. Oh and do take your time when approaching, yeah? ;)

Lastly was your edge game. You have to be careful. Avoid directing your Fire Fox/side B into your foe, especially if they can hit you with a move like DK's punch. I noticed you did shorten your illusion at one point, good job. Just make smarter angle choices is all I can say really.

Hope I helped, good luck!!
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
Well I watched your matches with DK. I think you have to slow down and start watching your foe more. At times it just seemed you was just throwing out aerials hoping they would connect. Oh and I understand how nerve recking it must be to fight a skilled foe like that but keep in mind that you shouldn't be afriad of getting shield grabbed once you become more comfortable in your tech skill.

Speaking of which I saw you do a few waveshines after you claimed a stock, but I think you should use it a lot more in battle. I recommend using more dairs (which are like my trademark move with fox lol) to waveshines because dairs can't be crouch canceled and they have 0 knock back. Nair, on the other hand, is an ok lead in to waveshines but its only slightly reliable at low percents since nair knocks your foe up in the air, making the shine much less effective. Nevertheless, a blend of the two, along with grabs makes you less predictable.

Oh and another thing that I noticed (mainly because I use to do it long ago) was when you would get knocked in the air above your foe you would double jump while off the screen and then come down above your opponent with a dair or something. Don't do this...bad idea! If you ever get knocked high into the air like that its best to DI away from your foe, and land safely. If you have to, even DI of the level and grab the ledge if need be. Anything to restart your approach basically. Oh and do take your time when approaching, yeah? ;)

Lastly was your edge game. You have to be careful. Avoid directing your Fire Fox/side B into your foe, especially if they can hit you with a move like DK's punch. I noticed you did shorten your illusion at one point, good job. Just make smarter angle choices is all I can say really.

Hope I helped, good luck!!
not sure what you meant by "saw you do waveshines in between stocks"
if you're insinuating I can't waveshine or something...lol...I'm extremely technical. I was doing pivot waveshines. I used to waveshine people all the time but I'm leaning away from it as of late because I would just dair into peoples' shields and drillshine, and get shield grabbed (im not sure about the frame data, maybe i was missing l cancels)
and yeah I learned by the end of the day not to dair into dk because he just up b sweetspots me every time
but yeah my approach game is far behind the rest of my game and that's the main thing I need to work on
thanks for the advice man, I appreciate it
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
not sure what you meant by "saw you do waveshines in between stocks"
if you're insinuating I can't waveshine or something...lol...I'm extremely technical. I was doing pivot waveshines. I used to waveshine people all the time but I'm leaning away from it as of late because I would just dair into peoples' shields and drillshine, and get shield grabbed (im not sure about the frame data, maybe i was missing l cancels)
and yeah I learned by the end of the day not to dair into dk because he just up b sweetspots me every time
but yeah my approach game is far behind the rest of my game and that's the main thing I need to work on
thanks for the advice man, I appreciate it
Oh sorry dude, I didn't mean to say you couldn't waveshine, oh no. I just noticed like every time you killed DK you would do some waeshines and I couldn't figure out why you wasn't using it*on DK himself as much, although I did see you do it a few times in your last video link. But yeah just remember that when your aerial hits a shield it slightly slows down the momentium of your move, thus slightly changing the l cancel timing. Just keep at it, dude! ^^
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
From what I saw you never moved away from your opponent for better positioning, I would work on slowing down that aggression, attacks are much more scary if you don't know when they are coming.
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
From what I saw you never moved away from your opponent for better positioning, I would work on slowing down that aggression, attacks are much more scary if you don't know when they are coming.
yeah I have a problem of feeling congested on maps that aren't FD or dreamland lol
I counterpick dl64 all the time which is odd for fox players, but i need the space to get out of combos/general bad situations
what can I do you "get away" when I'm cornered on, say, battlefield?
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
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Messages
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Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
yeah I have a problem of feeling congested on maps that aren't FD or dreamland lol
I counterpick dl64 all the time which is odd for fox players, but i need the space to get out of combos/general bad situations
what can I do you "get away" when I'm cornered on, say, battlefield?
Me personally, the platforms are my ticket to get away from pressure. But at the same time it all depends on who you are fighting. Against a Marth for example, its best to stay OFF the platforms when Marth is below you. But if a foe like DK is pressuring, especially on the edge, try to get on the platforms and waveland to get to safety. Another cool trick with Fox on BF is to jump from the edge and do a perfect/longest possible waveland on one of the lower platforms. It will actually cover the entire platform in a smooth fashion. Oh and as you know the edges of battlefield are really gay. If you can sweetspot the edge consistently on that level then a lot of your troubles are gone right there.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Portland, Oregon
5 seconds into the 4th video vs DK on Dreamland you double jump then aerial and are punished for it, other options here are to jump to the top platform and bair behind him, if he uair'd you would be out of range, and behind him to pressure his shield some more, or you could have caught him by surprise by just running off the ledge into an aerial.

10 seconds in you should move, you standing still with your back facing him, obviously looking for a bair, if I were him i would have run right at you dash danced to avoid the bair and grabbed you.

24 seconds he could have DIed that drill pretty easy to get off the platform, most players will do that anyways because its a good defense vs most of your other attack options as well, I would have gone for a grab in that situation.

40 seconds you suicide trying to wavedash off the ledge, I'm sure that doesn't happen often so I'm going to pretend you succeeded, now what position does that put you in, it takes you from having the option to run, shield, jump, duck, do any attack, spot dodge, wavedash, or walk, to a place you only have a few options, drop off ledge attack, waveland to the stage, jump off the ledge, roll off the ledge, and stand up off the ledge (which would give you back your other options assuming he couldn't predict which one you wanted to use and kill you for it) Better options here included jumping onto the platform and getting away from him, even still thats a little predictable, I probably would have ran at him and shielded, if he spot dodged I would grab him and platform tech chase, if he did anything else I would try to shield grab or nair out of my shield, if he grabbed me, I still in a good position to struggle out or at worst at least he can't chainthrow from there.

1:14 you should have gone for a forward b sweetspot.
1:19 you should have gotten up a different way, thats pretty punishable on reaction, at the very least most players would shield that.
2:19 you bair him, uair would have comboed better here.

Overall your main problem seems like poor decision making, just watch the matches and try to ask yourself WHY you are doing certain things, if you can't think of a good reason then start figuring out when you should be doing in those situations, a good way to practice training yourself to react properly is to watch pro matches and pause every couple seconds to ponder why m2k did what he did.
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
5 seconds into the 4th video vs DK on Dreamland you double jump then aerial and are punished for it, other options here are to jump to the top platform and bair behind him, if he uair'd you would be out of range, and behind him to pressure his shield some more, or you could have caught him by surprise by just running off the ledge into an aerial.

10 seconds in you should move, you standing still with your back facing him, obviously looking for a bair, if I were him i would have run right at you dash danced to avoid the bair and grabbed you.

24 seconds he could have DIed that drill pretty easy to get off the platform, most players will do that anyways because its a good defense vs most of your other attack options as well, I would have gone for a grab in that situation.

40 seconds you suicide trying to wavedash off the ledge, I'm sure that doesn't happen often so I'm going to pretend you succeeded, now what position does that put you in, it takes you from having the option to run, shield, jump, duck, do any attack, spot dodge, wavedash, or walk, to a place you only have a few options, drop off ledge attack, waveland to the stage, jump off the ledge, roll off the ledge, and stand up off the ledge (which would give you back your other options assuming he couldn't predict which one you wanted to use and kill you for it) Better options here included jumping onto the platform and getting away from him, even still thats a little predictable, I probably would have ran at him and shielded, if he spot dodged I would grab him and platform tech chase, if he did anything else I would try to shield grab or nair out of my shield, if he grabbed me, I still in a good position to struggle out or at worst at least he can't chainthrow from there.

1:14 you should have gone for a forward b sweetspot.
1:19 you should have gotten up a different way, thats pretty punishable on reaction, at the very least most players would shield that.
2:19 you bair him, uair would have comboed better here.

Overall your main problem seems like poor decision making, just watch the matches and try to ask yourself WHY you are doing certain things, if you can't think of a good reason then start figuring out when you should be doing in those situations, a good way to practice training yourself to react properly is to watch pro matches and pause every couple seconds to ponder why m2k did what he did.
the reason i bair instead of uair is because ripples sdi is extremely good, and most of the uairs he gets out of.
so sometimes i opt for a bair instead
ty for the critique
after class I'll look through them again and see if I can see the errors you mentioned ^.^
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
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Corneria, Lylat System
I'm late on this, and most people have already said what I would have - but I'll say a few things anyway. :)

You need to put up your shield ALOT more. I know you want to go and show your stuff at SMYM9, so listen to this piece of advice. In the majority of your matches I saw you getting hit by almost everything your opponents threw out. Their approaches and some other random smashers mostly. If your opponent runs straight at you with a nair and is extremely obvious about it, don't let it hit you. Don't try to stand there and beat it with your moves all the time. Don't try to tech skill your way in and out of situations that don't need tech skill/shine. Just stand there and shield, then grab. Boom, thats what like 2 uairs on Pika sometimes? I'm not saying you were doing all that I just mentioned, I just want you to start thinking of the more fundamental, effective, PC-Chrissy ways of doing things. You have potential, but your thought processing mid-match needs to be a bit more refined. Pay attention to how your opponent is moving around. Attack when needed and escape safely, put up shield and work out of it in different ways to keep your opponent confused. i.e.: Rolls/sidesteps aren't enough, WD back out of shield and reset your position somewhere else on the stage for more breathing room, or WD in and CC an attack you expect is coming (if he has a somewhat predictable pattern of attack)

etc etc. You know what I mean.

Man I ramble alot.

Vs. Pika: I don't say this very often, but be LESS patient at the ledge. You just sat there a bunch of times and let Pika upb right back on the stage. Jump off and bair and you might hit. If that doesn't work, the Pika will have landed on the stage in lag (because you were holding the edge earlier), so go and punish that skank with grabs and stuff.

Your combo game seems to be developing. Just try not to be too impulsive and follow your opponent off stage to extend one. You did that one too many times vs. Dk and it got you edge-guarded.

Use the edge more for invincibility and shine spikes. Above all, slow your game down and just think more. Take a step back and you'll notice a lot of the more intricate details about the game. Certain moves you were mis-spacing slightly, ways you could have used the platforms to approach (in relation to your opponents positioning), easier ways of edge-guarding that didn't involve running off for non-invincible shines. I have this feeling that everyone in melee has had, or will have, a single instance during a match where everything will just come together and flow. You post on here pretty often and take a bunch of advice, so I have a feeling you know what to do, and how to do it. Applying it consistently seems to be your only real issue, besides some obvious tourny/play experience.

-Stay alert, don't miss easy techs or opportunities to punish opponents lag.
-Don't run in blindly, have a plan at least 70% of the time and I guarantee the moves you want to hit with will actually hit.
-Remember match-up specific information, and don't be afraid to spam the fundamental **** stuff, because it almost always works. (invincible ledge stuff, uthrow uair, grab in general for free hits)

-Pace yourself when you are down stocks or in a tight situation/near an edge. If you take a step back and think about the situation properly, you can avoid making really obvious evasive decisions like rolling towards or jumping oos quickly.

Good luck SMYM9!

lol it felt like I was just regurgitating a bunch of information. Sorry if it all got too repetitive. later man!
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
I'm late on this, and most people have already said what I would have - but I'll say a few things anyway. :)

You need to put up your shield ALOT more. I know you want to go and show your stuff at SMYM9, so listen to this piece of advice. In the majority of your matches I saw you getting hit by almost everything your opponents threw out. Their approaches and some other random smashers mostly. If your opponent runs straight at you with a nair and is extremely obvious about it, don't let it hit you. Don't try to stand there and beat it with your moves all the time. Don't try to tech skill your way in and out of situations that don't need tech skill/shine. Just stand there and shield, then grab. Boom, thats what like 2 uairs on Pika sometimes? I'm not saying you were doing all that I just mentioned, I just want you to start thinking of the more fundamental, effective, PC-Chrissy ways of doing things. You have potential, but your thought processing mid-match needs to be a bit more refined. Pay attention to how your opponent is moving around. Attack when needed and escape safely, put up shield and work out of it in different ways to keep your opponent confused. i.e.: Rolls/sidesteps aren't enough, WD back out of shield and reset your position somewhere else on the stage for more breathing room, or WD in and CC an attack you expect is coming (if he has a somewhat predictable pattern of attack)

etc etc. You know what I mean.

Man I ramble alot.

Vs. Pika: I don't say this very often, but be LESS patient at the ledge. You just sat there a bunch of times and let Pika upb right back on the stage. Jump off and bair and you might hit. If that doesn't work, the Pika will have landed on the stage in lag (because you were holding the edge earlier), so go and punish that skank with grabs and stuff.

Your combo game seems to be developing. Just try not to be too impulsive and follow your opponent off stage to extend one. You did that one too many times vs. Dk and it got you edge-guarded.

Use the edge more for invincibility and shine spikes. Above all, slow your game down and just think more. Take a step back and you'll notice a lot of the more intricate details about the game. Certain moves you were mis-spacing slightly, ways you could have used the platforms to approach (in relation to your opponents positioning), easier ways of edge-guarding that didn't involve running off for non-invincible shines. I have this feeling that everyone in melee has had, or will have, a single instance during a match where everything will just come together and flow. You post on here pretty often and take a bunch of advice, so I have a feeling you know what to do, and how to do it. Applying it consistently seems to be your only real issue, besides some obvious tourny/play experience.

-Stay alert, don't miss easy techs or opportunities to punish opponents lag.
-Don't run in blindly, have a plan at least 70% of the time and I guarantee the moves you want to hit with will actually hit.
-Remember match-up specific information, and don't be afraid to spam the fundamental **** stuff, because it almost always works. (invincible ledge stuff, uthrow uair, grab in general for free hits)

-Pace yourself when you are down stocks or in a tight situation/near an edge. If you take a step back and think about the situation properly, you can avoid making really obvious evasive decisions like rolling towards or jumping oos quickly.

Good luck SMYM9!

lol it felt like I was just regurgitating a bunch of information. Sorry if it all got too repetitive. later man!
no that was definitely what I needed to hear
I can tell that I've improved from the critiques, and hearing it reinforced is a nice confidence booster, and I've already got the technical aspect down, so I can only get better from here.
I think all of those things will fall into place as I attend more tournaments, as you said, and I think, even though I only have 4-5 people that are good that I can play, I can def. step it up regardless
And I agree with your "everything comes together and flows" theory, because that has def. happened to me (and happened a couple times in those games) where I go nuts and take off 2 stocks uncontested.
thanks, I'm hoping to place this tourney. Event 52 had some really hard competition.
really hope I can see you at SMYM9, even though it is unlikely you can attend
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
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Premium
BRoomer
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26,560
I play DK and you handle the matchup decently but you camp too much. If you're going to camp, fire lasers. I'd advise against it. Just approach and throw out a nair to where you land behind your opponent while they're shielding, then you can shine turnaround jcgrab if you want. Or drillshine jcgrab. Drill has enough shieldstun to where you can shine before they can grab, and the shine has enough shieldstun to where you can jc grab before they can. Otherwise most of your approaches (if they don't shield) should be dashdancing around and mindgaming a grab/aerial shine.

And yeah, Event 52 had some really tough competition. I didn't make it out of pools. -.- **** Cactuar taking away points...
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
I play DK and you handle the matchup decently but you camp too much. If you're going to camp, fire lasers. I'd advise against it. Just approach and throw out a nair to where you land behind your opponent while they're shielding, then you can shine turnaround jcgrab if you want. Or drillshine jcgrab. Drill has enough shieldstun to where you can shine before they can grab, and the shine has enough shieldstun to where you can jc grab before they can. Otherwise most of your approaches (if they don't shield) should be dashdancing around and mindgaming a grab/aerial shine.

And yeah, Event 52 had some really tough competition. I didn't make it out of pools. -.- **** Cactuar taking away points...
haha, I was one set away from advancing out of my pool. I had to win my last set, and it was against ****ing wife.
he 2 stocked my marf with peach :3
 

Da Shuffla

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,810
This "coming together" idea, what is it like? Is it like a combat high, or is it one moment that changes your game from then on?
 
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