New suicide throw

[KingChaos]

Hello fellow R.O.B. squad bot players I have something interesting to share. I was not sure where to post this so I just made a new thread for it. I have not noticed anyone talking about it ever so i don't think it is common knowledge. On dreamland as the tree is blowing if you get a grab on someone you can go for up throw and the tree will blow you both off. It can net you some really cheap wins haha enjoy. Just remember to make sure you have a stock to spare because like the others you will die first! Of course if they have some percent you can just hold and pummel if you need to wait a bit so you can get close enough to the edge. Additional note I do not know if you guys are aware of this either but I find it a good mix up. That is when there is an item on the ground (gyro) as you land you can press z and a direction and you will instantly pick up the item and roll. Seems to be like you can slightly buffer it so you can do it rather quickly. Use it for mix ups and when you're landing and wanna get your top but then hurry and get out of the opponent's face or quickly get behind them and start setting up a trap.

 

[Lizard_Buttock]

I'm pretty sure most of us knew that you could suicide throw on dreamland. You can also do it on Smashville, Town and City and any other stage with platforms that move off the stage.

 

[Mister Eric]

Whether known or not, this is the kind of stuff that needs to be shared bc not everyone knows. We need to share information as we collect it. Thx for sharing!

 

[Constadin]

Thanks for sharing bro. Even if it is common knowledge I may not have thought it in a case where the opportunity would have presented If I beat someone like this I will owe you one

 

[KingChaos]

haha you guys are welcome I knew about the smashville town and city one but dreamland I did on accident and never thought about it nor have I seen it posted on here. I just thought it should be common knowledge for all rob mains not just the experienced ones.

 

[KingChaos]

Whether known or not, this is the kind of stuff that needs to be shared bc not everyone knows. We need to share information as we collect it. Thx for sharing!

Off topic but I am super bummed I missed my chance to play you in tournament. My alarm clock didn't go off so I missed my ride it was set perfectly I swear just said nope stay asleep.

 

[Pazx]

This also works on Lylat which is actually not very well known at all by the looks of things.

 

[KingChaos]

This also works on Lylat which is actually not very well known at all by the looks of things.

How do you get it to work on lylat?

 

[Jams.]

How do you get it to work on lylat?

Not quite sure what causes this to happen, but here's a video of it occurring in tournament: https://youtu.be/IiCLw_dJtfA?t=19m46s
Doesn't go too well for ROB though. =(

 

[KingChaos]

ah hmm has no one tested this?

 

[Teshie U]

Does this work for all characters with upthrows that fly up?

 

[JSwiss]

Okay, so in a tournament setting does this count towards the suicide clause? As in if both characters are on their last stock and we do this does the ROB get the win like Bower, DDD, Wario and etc.? I personally think it should count but I've never seen it mentioned in any rules. I don't see any difference other than it is more situational and harder to do.

 

[Pixel_]

This was actually already talked about here, but I guess it's pretty old anyway

Does this work for all characters with upthrows that fly up?

I've tried Kirby and Charizard in a custom stage, but the opponent ends up hitting the ground anyway.... in mid air.

This was with a slanted ceiling, but I'm pretty sure it'll happen the same way with moving platforms and wind.

 

[FrankTheStud]

I wonder if this works for Kirby and Charizard... I'll have to try it out!

 

[Pixel_]

I wonder if this works for Kirby and Charizard... I'll have to try it out!

Meta Knight has one too btw

 

[Jaaahsh]

Okay, so in a tournament setting does this count towards the suicide clause?

Lots of TOs are kinda sloppy in rule-writing. I make it explicit that a ROB suicide throw counts as a suicide move and results in a ROB win, but I predict many TOs haven't thought about it or don't want to commit it to a ruleset. Check in with them before a tournament, just in case. I know I've definitely done it in tournament (at a tournament I wasn't running that nevertheless used my MN ruleset) and the opponent was furious that the ruleset explicitly stated it. I didn't tell them I wrote the rule, though...

 

[1FC0]

Lots of TOs are kinda sloppy in rule-writing. I make it explicit that a ROB suicide throw counts as a suicide move and results in a ROB win, but I predict many TOs haven't thought about it or don't want to commit it to a ruleset. Check in with them before a tournament, just in case. I know I've definitely done it in tournament (at a tournament I wasn't running that nevertheless used my MN ruleset) and the opponent was furious that the ruleset explicitly stated it. I didn't tell them I wrote the rule, though...

I remember a Bowser making a thread on Smashboards because a TO told him that Bowsercide was in the clause but then he did it and lost because the TO was wrong, so he made the thread to talk about it.

Personally I would take a good look at the written rules and follow them, at least then you will not get surprises like this.

 

[Teshie U]

Most places will just go by what the game says (perfectly logical) unless sudden death occurs. Definitely consult your TO before you throw your stock away on this trick.

 

[KingChaos]

We should all petition to get this put into the standard ruleset for smash 4. It wouldn't be fair all these other characters in the past get special suicide throw treatment and not R.O.B.

 

[Pazx]

I've never had ROB's uthrow go to sudden death, I've only ever lost the match if we're both on last stock, so I'm not sure ROB is really deserving of the win in suicide situations.

 

[1FC0]

I've never had ROB's uthrow go to sudden death, I've only ever lost the match if we're both on last stock, so I'm not sure ROB is really deserving of the win in suicide situations.

R.O.B. always deserves to win.

 

[KingChaos]

I've never had ROB's uthrow go to sudden death, I've only ever lost the match if we're both on last stock, so I'm not sure ROB is really deserving of the win in suicide situations.

Yea true you do technically die first so I guess no one will ever pay attention to it as part of a suicide rule. not fair

 

[Raijinken]

It's been known (works on Luminose on the 3DS when the platform contracts), but definitely needs some publicity.

For some more fun, it works on Lylat, too.

As far as suicide rules go, generally the suicider loses either way (though there's plenty of reconsideration going on). But even if you follow the game's ruling, ROB dies.

To the above conversation, Kirby, Metaknight, and Charizard all impact at launch height, even if the platform has moved.

 

[KingChaos]

It's been known (works on Luminose on the 3DS when the platform contracts), but definitely needs some publicity.

For some more fun, it works on Lylat, too.

As far as suicide rules go, generally the suicider loses either way (though there's plenty of reconsideration going on). But even if you follow the game's ruling, ROB dies.

To the above conversation, Kirby, Metaknight, and Charizard all impact at launch height, even if the platform has moved.

Looks like it only happens as the stage begins to tilt down on the side you are on.

 

[1FC0]

Looks like it only happens as the stage begins to tilt down on the side you are on.

The distance on the x-axis that the edge has from the center is equal to cos(θ)*L/2 where L is the length of the stage and θ is the angle that the side of the stage where R.O.B. is positioned makes. And since |θ| is never greater than τ/4 radians, The length on the x-axis will always become shorter when |θ| increases. This means that if |θ| increases enough during R.O.B.'s Upthrow and R.O.B. initiated the Upthrow from the very edge he should be able to Citycide if the value of |θ| does not decrease quickly enough.
And since |θ| increases when R.O.B.'s side of the stage moves up as well as when it movees down R.O.B. might be able to Citycide when the stage tilts up on his side as well,

 

[KingChaos]

It's been known (works on Luminose on the 3DS when the platform contracts), but definitely needs some publicity.

For some more fun, it works on Lylat, too.

As far as suicide rules go, generally the suicider loses either way (though there's plenty of reconsideration going on). But even if you follow the game's ruling, ROB dies.

To the above conversation, Kirby, Metaknight, and Charizard all impact at launch height, even if the platform has moved.

Got the lylat suicide throw in tourney haha thanks for the info.

 

[Marrow]

I got this by accident and died laughing. I was on 3DS, Arena Ferox. Testing showed it can be done on at least these two formes. It can also be done on Prism Tower towards the end of the walk-off section, though it requires proper timing. Not sure if it can be done off of the Blaargwich on Yoshi's, but if so that's 4/6 3DS stages where this would work!

 

[Raijinken]

I got this by accident and died laughing. I was on 3DS, Arena Ferox. Testing showed it can be done on at least these two formes. It can also be done on Prism Tower towards the end of the walk-off section, though it requires proper timing. Not sure if it can be done off of the Blaargwich on Yoshi's, but if so that's 4/6 3DS stages where this would work!

I didn't even know it was possible until I was on the last kill of ROB's all star mode and the platform compressed underneath me.

Compared to the rest of suicide throws (or rather, their inability to suicide), it's pretty obscure.

 

[DJ3DS]

I got this by accident and died laughing. I was on 3DS, Arena Ferox. Testing showed it can be done on at least these two formes. It can also be done on Prism Tower towards the end of the walk-off section, though it requires proper timing. Not sure if it can be done off of the Blaargwich on Yoshi's, but if so that's 4/6 3DS stages where this would work!

It can be done on another transformation on Ferox - namely, the one with the wall and platform in the middle, and two raised platforms either side. The raised platforms shake in response to movement on them, and you can get an U-Throw suicide at the edge of one of these. I accidentally got it on Anther's Ladder; I was only going for the normal kill due to how high the platforms are.

As for use, a last stock situation is never advisable but I've found it very useful on ladder. If you get a stock lead at high percent and the opponent is fishing for the kill this is a fantastic way of getting a pretty noticeable lead. If you're at a noticeable percentage deficit on the same stock it can also be useful.

 

[Pazx]

The distance on the x-axis that the edge has from the center is equal to cos(θ)*L/2 where L is the length of the stage and θ is the angle that the side of the stage where R.O.B. is positioned makes. And since |θ| is never greater than τ/4 radians, The length on the x-axis will always become shorter when |θ| increases. This means that if |θ| increases enough during R.O.B.'s Upthrow and R.O.B. initiated the Upthrow from the very edge he should be able to Citycide if the value of |θ| does not decrease quickly enough.
And since |θ| increases when R.O.B.'s side of the stage moves up as well as when it movees down R.O.B. might be able to Citycide when the stage tilts up on his side as well,

 

[KingChaos]

LMFAO