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[New] Multi-Shine Pseudo-OS

J⩓мє

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
77
I don't think you shouldn't have used use debug mode convention, since the convention for giving frame data on techniques puts frame 0 as the input frame of an action vs frame 1 being the resulting animation.

I just don't understand why you'd use two different conventions given both that the debug mode frame timing for the second shine's animations is not used (for double shine grab), and that the 'state' isn't debug mode action states (like 313 for grounded shine attack animation, 317 for aerial shine attack animation, 318 for aerial shine reflect animation, 314 for standing reflect animation, which occurs on frame 5 of the second shine). The state of the player by your conventions on frame 13 of double shine grab would still be shine, though "text" is funny. None of your frame data reflects hitlag which changes the input timing and requires its own practice and muscle memory to do effectively, and therefore impacts the difficulty of each technique. Finally, this is not an option select because it has nothing to do with the opponent's state or actions, and purely on the consistency of the users' own input timing.

On any situation with overhead platforms, since no character in the game but falco can match falco's dj velocity* with a full jump (and falco sticks to the ground for 5 frames during it before he blasts off), I personally wouldn't use the technique and would instead waveland mixup on platform, since, against fox especially, westballz shining with the airdodge straight down makes falco unactionable for 13 frames (because of the waveland), and without an active hitbox to induce shield lag for 15. All that lag, next to a character with the best OOS option spread in the game (http://ikneedata.com/heatmaps/oos/fox.html falco becomes vulnerable to all of this), and more lag if you attempt a waveland at an angle, the unactionable frames increase by at least 1 (if you try to use the optimal wavedash angle of (+/-.95,-.2875) you end up airdodging for 5 frames instead of 1 which brings it to 17 frames unactionable). When facing the opponent the input timing required to westballz shine airdodge back as a mixup, to get out of range of most of Fox's oos options, without having to wait for 2 frame shine turn-around animation, would require the player to move their stick to input their wavedash angle (and therefore the airdodge) in the first frame of the double jump for frame perfect timing (ie, move the stick from center or down center to back and down in a single frame), or later (though latter would increase vulnerable frames too, likely more than waiting on the 2 frame turn around). This means that, if facing the player, the only mixup available from a westballz shine is a cross-up (as seen in Westballz's use of it at MVG Sandstorm), which still leaves the player vulnerable to OOS punishes, and gives enough time for most characters to wavedash oos to reset to neutral or regain gain stage control if the cross-up gave Falco the stage, since in crossing up Falco becomes unactionable for 14-17 frames (without an active hitbox for 16-19 frames) which is enough even for Bowser to wavedash away from Falco. So, personally, I prefer the air.

All that aside I think this technique is awesome and I'm super glad you came up with it and wrote up the technical details. I think it's a cool option and technique to have in one's repertoire and in spite of my prior paragraph stating frame data on how westballz shining is unsafe, it's an important mixup option to have to keep the opponent honest. This is awesome. I hope you find more single input multi-output techniques in melee cause they're fascinating, and because you were so thorough in presenting this one.

* Falco's full jump speed is 4.1 in game units, his double jump puts him at 3.684, next fastest fulljump is Fox (iirc) at 3.68 exactly, after a 3 frame jumpsquat, which gives you a 3 frame head start (though Fox's acceleration due to gravity is higher so he doesn't cover as much vertical distance in that 1 jump anyway, he'd need to use 2 to chase so the fox will probably go for the landing lag if the waveland mixup is either not possible or predictable).
 
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