New movement technique: Immediate dash out of run

[tauKhan]

I was playing around with crouch and found out that in Project M you can actually cancel initial crouch animation with dash or walk. This means that you can dash cancel your run and immediately dash or walk forward. The fastest way to input this is doing a very fast quarter circle after dash canceling.

I don't know yet about all the possible applications this technique has, but one very obvious is that you can start dash dancing at any time during your run, so you can effectively make your dash dance length as long as you want.

This technique is actually derivative of the moving method in melee which cactuar started using lately with the difference, that one doesn't have to wait for the 8 frames long initial crouch animation to finish, making this method much faster. Since cactuar has belief in the usefulness of the much slower method in melee, I believe this one could be very effective for characters with fast dash speeds.

 

[The_Guide]

I'll make it even easier for you. Hold down attack, go into run animation, then flick the cstick down. It will do exactly what you described with frame perfection.

Be certain that you're not holding diagonally down/forward, though. You've got to be pressing directly downwards.

 

[tauKhan]

Wtf is wrong with this game... why does pressing c-stick down while holding a make you crouch, that's stupid. Thanks for the information. I think that your method for dash cancel isn't that applicable, since you have to start holding attack during some lag, which makes it kind off harder to achieve/ more situational.

 

[The_Guide]

It doesn't just make you crouch; it will instantly cancel the crouch with a run. Its rather silly.

 

[9bit]

I'll make it even easier for you. Hold down attack, go into run animation, then flick the cstick down. It will do exactly what you described with frame perfection.

Be certain that you're not holding diagonally down/forward, though. You've got to be pressing directly downwards.

This is interesting. Means you can do a moonwalk in the middle of a full run.

 

[standardtoaster]

That only happens because of how the cstick is read. It's read as A + stick.

 

[Celestis]

Wtf is wrong with this game... why does pressing c-stick down while holding a make you crouch, that's stupid. Thanks for the information. I think that your method for dash cancel isn't that applicable, since you have to start holding attack during some lag, which makes it kind off harder to achieve/ more situational.

Because Down C-stick is Down plus air. Down smash, Down air.. So if you hold A. Game can't press A again, so it just makes you crouch cause down is basically being pressed. Nothing is wrong with the game.

 

[The_Guide]

That only happens because of how the cstick is read. It's read as A + stick.

Out of curiosity, do you know why the method I posted triggers a dash as opposed to a walk? If I'm continuously holding right on the control stick and I trigger a crouch by pressing down on the c-stick, I'd expect my character to start walking. Yet, the game gives me a dash instead. I thought that dashes needed to be triggered with a smash input?

 

[standardtoaster]

it's going from down to directly to the side in one frame, which is being read as a smash input afaik

 

[The_Guide]

Ahhh, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[tauKhan]

@ standardtoaster Is dash canceling initial crouch intentional? It is ridiculously good.

I think using this technique to run dance is better than even dash dancing with many characters. Running gives you the ability to perform any of your ground moves at any time, thus your run is more threatening than dashing. In melee the problem with running was that you were very telegraphed about your movement; You either had to attack or crouch or wavedash back, which are all committing actions in someways. In this game you can now directly dash backwards from run, which is almost no commitment action, and means you can be less predictable when running towards opponent.

This kind of movement will be super good for characters which have good low commitment pokes or combostarters with good range, for example marths or roys or metaknight dtilt, sheik ftilt and so on. With marth you can now run toward opponent, threatening with dtilt, and dash back when you are at right spacing. This is better than wavedashing back, because it doesn't put you in any sort of lag, and moves your character very quickly. Also you can potentially start moving faster, since you don't have to wait for jump squat to finish. If your opponent does nothing, you can then immediately dash back toward the opponent.

 

[Lorenzo The Comic]

Can I see this technique in action?

 

[tauKhan]

I don't have any recording equipment unfortunately. But it is very easy to do, as I wrote in the op, just dashcancel, then very quickly quartercircle to forward again.

 

[Mera Mera]

This is true in Melee as well. The reason it's not used as much is that, unless you have a really short dash, you're probably giving up too much space on the retreat to go into a run. Plus when you crouch to reset it, you go into a dash, so you won't be able to crouch until you go a certain distance again, which may imply you going too far into your opponent's burst range. It's usable, but by no means replaces dash dancing entirely. Also as far as I can tell, when you're rising from a crouch (there is an animation for this) it can't be directly canceled into forward tilt in the other direction (so if you're facing right, you can't cancel rising from crouch into ftilt left). You might be able to cancel it into a very brief walk and then ftilt though. Not sure.

That all said, I use this, and I agree that it's probably underused. I just wouldn't go as far as saying it's a game changer.

 

[tauKhan]

No, as I explained this is not in melee. In melee you can't dash during initial crouch which is 7 or 8 frames long, meaning that run -> dash is not much faster than wavedash dash in melee, but in pm you can dash immediately, which makes this SUPER good. By the way, this is the reason that dashcancel f tilts are easy in melee, but hard in pm.
I came up with better input: dash cancel with almost diagonal downwards, then roll it to just above diagonal, this is very fast to perform

And running is used a lot in melee even though you can't dash backwards out of it, because running gives you access to all your moves.

 

[Mera Mera]

Oh, it's not? Huh. Yeah I agree that this might change people restricting themselves to their dash range for a dash dance. I haven't played melee in so long... I guess I just assumed. My bad.

 

[Phaiyte]

Wtf is wrong with this game... why does pressing c-stick down while holding a make you crouch, that's stupid. Thanks for the information. I think that your method for dash cancel isn't that applicable, since you have to start holding attack during some lag, which makes it kind off harder to achieve/ more situational.

C stick is nothing more than direction+A. If you're already holding A, it won't be able to use that input, so it technically just inputs down. Think a litle bit man

 

[tauKhan]

So it seems. I picked up pm yesterday, I'm used to melee.