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New Move Sets? Peachy's Got It

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
Many of us breathed a sigh of relief when Peach was revealed on the Dojo. Sakurai’s description of peach left me wondering if they’d changed much about her at all. Regardless ifSakurai is planning on changing or balancing her at all, we must consider what a more balanced Princess would play like.
<p align="center"><a href="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/peach_070817a-l1.jpg" title="peach_070817a-l1.jpg"><img src="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/peach_070817a-l1.jpg" alt="peach_070817a-l1.jpg" height="274" width="332" /></a></p>
Rhough Peach isn’t weak by any means her B moves could use a little tweaking.<!--more-->

<strong>Turnip</strong>: (down+B) This move is magical. While standing, just hit down+B and you’ll pull up something useful (most likely a Turnip). You can hold ‘em, throw ‘em, or drop ‘em. All of these options can lead into some effective strategies. Like Link’s bombs this projectile is very versatile. It can do it all, except rest on the ground. These deadly pieces of produce even keep their hit boxes after colliding with enemy shields. This means they’re still dangerous as long as they’re still tumbling through the air. Most other projectiles and items in the game don’t have this ability. Some turnips hit hard. Some kill. And sometimes other items can be pulled randomly from the ground. With the ability to throw such items out of shield and the ability to catch and quickly throw again, this attack is a staple for any Peach player. It’s not hard to imagine what could be added to this move if you think back.
<ol>
<li>This move draws it’s history from Mario Bros. 2. In this game, you could pull up veggies from the ground just by standing over their leaves that were jutting out of the ground and pulling. But in this game it wasn’t all about pulling up plants. You could even pull up enemies, carry them around, and throw them around before they wiggled free. Now, it may be a little strange to give Peach the ability to hitch a ride on top of her enemies heads as they run and jump around, so I’ve come up with a practical solution. When footstool jumping with Peach, she’ll have an extra option to pick up her opponents. Just link of it like having Donkey Kong’s grab, but she can do it from the air. And she can float after picking things up like this. She’ll also be able to do this with crates, barrels, and physical projectiles (like Samus missiles). Be careful. If you grab something like a missle you might be carried away by it’s thrust!</li>
</ol>
<strong>Toad Counter:</strong> In a fleeting moment of weakness Peach can pull out her trusty Fungi Friend to take the hit for her. This is yet another move that falls under the counter category. Like Marth and Roy’s down+B, when this move comes out, if the enemy strikes in that critical window, the counter attack commences. With Roy the results can be devastating as he takes the power of the attack and adds to it before striking back. This is why his critical window is slow small and hard to time. Marth has a much bigger window, and a much weaker strike back. Peach has a smaller window than Marth, and a counter attack that’s less effective too. I don’t think this makes very much sense. With such a poor reward for using this move, it’s no wonder nobody does. It does have a few interesting things about it. If you use this move in the air Peach is suspended in air for a moment even when Toad is hit. Marth and Roy just fall out of the sky. Was this supposed to be Peach’s great trade off, because it’s not nearly good enough. Now to the list.
<ol>
<li>They should adjust Peach’s critical counter window according to how good the counter is. Even with the float, this move doesn’t have much of a practical purpose. Marth and Roy’s counters cover their whole body regardless of which direction they’re facing. Peach has to face the right direction for her counter to work. This hardly seems fair. What were they thinking?</li>
<li>The spores that shoot out of Toad’s body when he’s hit are useless. Because Peach’s counter doesn’t kill the enemy, and it hardly pushes them back at all, there is little purpose for deciding to take the risk to time this move. This is why I think the spores should attach themselves to the enemy and slow down their movement and moves. It would be like they’re fighting somewhat in slow motion. This would allow Peach to control the speed of her opponents. Taking the risk to slow them down could make all the difference. They’ll fall of on their on eventually. And just because a move is slow doesn’t mean it’s not dangerous. In fact, slowing down some moves may result in them being dangerous for longer periods of time. Peach’s will have to be careful.</li>
<li>The spores should be flammable and combustible. If any flame (from an attack, projectile, or the stage) touches these spores, they should explode in an explosion reminiscent of a bob-omb or a Falcon Knee. But where would Peach get the flames from you ask? I’m so glad you asked.</li>
</ol>
<strong>Peach Bomber</strong>: This wack-a-doodle move is well… wacky. It’s similar to Captain Falcon’s Raptor Boost (foward+B). Peach leans back a little only to lunch forward attacking. Unfortunately Peach doesn’t have the speed, range, or projectile dodging ability that Falcon has. Also, the explosion from successfully connecting the attack isn’t very strong, and it doesn’t set the enemy up for any other attacks. This attack is also very easy to dodge. Peach practically announces that the attack is coming giving the player plenty of time to dodge. The only use I’ve seen come out of this move is using it against a wall so that Peach rebounds back a little higher up than where she started. This technique is called Peach bombing. You don’t have to worry about it though. It’s a silly technique that’s banned because of how it was used on banned stages. So what can we do with this move?
<ol>
<li>If the enemy can be covered with combustible spores, then this move could easily go from weak to strong with just a little set up from a properly timed Toad counter. After all, this move is the only move that Peach has to set enemies on fire. It’ll still require some skill to pull off, but now the rewards can be much greater.</li>
<li>It would be interesting to incorporate this move into Peach’s floating ability. Missing this attack lands Peach on her rear end regretting having ever used the move. Perhaps Peach could extend the range of the attack by floating back for the “Huh” and then releasing the charge so that she zips back to where she begun with a “CHA.” I don’t recommend simply adding strength, speed, or priority to this attack because it’s doesn’t have to be augmented so obviously. In order to achieve diversity and depth, the move has to be connected to Peach’s other moves.</li>
<li>If there’s an explosion for this move, then there should be an explosion, and it should be treated like one. I already mentioned something about this on Link’s page.</li>
</ol>
<strong>Parasol</strong>: This dandy move is too good. It breaks all the rules of a recovery move, making Peach one of the most annoying characters when recovering. Peach, Samus, and Jigglypuff all have moves, techniques, and abilities that greatly stall their recovery process all the while retaining their maneuverability and priority. Aside from having a near broken floating ability, Peach can unleash an umbrella for even more air control. It comes out fast to catch you off guard or to crack through your defense/offense. It has a lot of priority so that even when you thought you had a clean hit on this “floating” duck, you will still probably lose in the interaction. After opening, it can be opened and closed quickly. Not only does this adjust Peach’s air speed allowing her to dodge when her options are supposed to be limited, but when she lands with the parasol down, she has very little lag. Recovery moves are supposed to have more lag the faster and better they are. That’s how the game is balanced, but I guess Peach just didn’t care about that stuff. She is royalty after all. When the parasol is simply held open it acts as a constant high priority hit box that can stop even the most accurate of attacks cold. Sorry guys, I’m going to make a list that makes the move more balanced and manageable. It must be done.
<ol>
<li>Peach should gather speed as she falls with the parasol open like Fox when holding the reflector in mid air. Melee is about knocking opponents off the stage. Using jumps to return to the stage is what the game is all about. So why does Peach have such a gravity defying move especially after having such a gravity defying float? If she’s going to keep her horizontal mobility with the parasol, then stalling like that should come at a price of altitude.</li>
<li>Being able to open and close the parasol is too much. When using recovery moves, players are supposed to have a limited number of options. This is important to he flow of the game. Being able to control the parasol so is almost giving Peach more control and options than she had before using her recovery move. After all, it gives her a hit box, maneuverability, and a way to land without much lag at all. This clearly breaks all the rules. So I say, if she closes her parasol, she shouldn’t’ be able to open it again unless she’s hit. If she’s in danger (which she should be. Edge guarding is a good part of the game) and she wants to take a dive, then let her take a dive. She’ll have to take the lag from her dive when she hits the ground. Closing the parasol and diving is supposed to be a last ditch effort to create some distance between Peach and her opponents. Most characters don’t get options like this at all, so no complaining.</li>
</ol>
<p align="center"><a href="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/peach_070817c-l1.jpg" title="peach_070817c-l1.jpg"><img src="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/peach_070817c-l1.jpg" alt="peach_070817c-l1.jpg" height="252" width="306" /></a></p>
<p align="center">Yeah. Peachy’s got it alright.</p>
I didn’t have much to say this time around because Peach is a really good character. Her smashes are unique even if here down smash is far too strong and versatile, and her air attacks are unique even if they have too much priority and strength. She’s almost balanced and fully fleshed out in Melee. She’s high tier for a reason.

Now for the <a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=_rUgqSozCLE" target="_blank">chewing</a>.
 
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peach-mexico

Guest
I DON`T LIKE PARASOL IDEA …..JAJAJA
BUT I REALLY THINK PEACH IS A GOOD CHARACTER…THE BEST FOR ME
 
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UndrDog

Guest
I prefer the idea of multiple toadstools. Such as Toad, Toadette, Grandpa, ect. Whether it’s a smash B or if it’s random I like this idea.

Add in the ability to keep the toadstool out and direct where you aim it…

Actually I don’t think Toad will be a B move but her default block.
 
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homelessvagrant

Guest
It’s almost like they took the efectiveness from her B and . B attacks and put them on her ^b and vB attacks. Really odd sakurai, the uneveness of gameplay is definitly a sign of how rushed the game was into production
 
C

Celph

Guest
I think peach is balanced cuz she has alot of weak points.. I think her most powerful ability is to be safe in land.. maybe thats why they B attacks are so cheapy in power

for me… Her Toad Counter works fine cuz it helps when you are trying to reach the stage and there is a roy/marth trying to dive you down, the toad just hit em and make them roll to give you the chance of survive. It give alot of surprising moments that astonish the others for a while.

Her hip power maybe its the worst one (you can just combine it when the user is unable to avoid.. ) but actually you can do very good combos like sheik with here.

Thanks for talking about peach… I felt a lot of relief when she appeared on the dojo… By the way… Sakurai fell asleep or why I can’t see the update?? XD
 
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homelessvagrant

Guest
don’t know but it could be another Ike like update. that would be very nice. ^_^
 
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ChozoChampion

Guest
finally i can get on this site i haven’t been able to since about 3 yesterday. hopefully some peaches moves will change slightly (namely b&gt; and b moves). its annoying playing with a char when they have a useless move ( GW’s Bucket) or moves that just are not worth the effect…..mewtwo’s confusion usually just get me faired sigh
 

Johnknight1

Upward and Forward, Positive and Persistent
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
18,966
Location
Livermore, the Bay repping NorCal Smash!
NNID
Johnknight1
3DS FC
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Sakurai did this four times I believe: Once for the release date and first 15 second gif, for some item, when opening the revamped site, and when confirming Ike [the 1st confirmed newcomer on the site, not the 2006 E3 trailer]. :) Hope it’s good.

Anyways, I like some of the ideas, but the parasola has to stay the same, or she’ll start dropping in the tiers faster thna you can say Ness. Well, maybe she’ll be imd-low tier, but I think that is generally wat keeps her up there, along with creativity.
 
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homelessvagrant

Guest
Ughth, I update please. I like Mewtwo’s moveset, I just wish they’d fix it like power up confusion. Next kirbykid analysis MEWTWO! That would be cool.
 
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homelessvagrant

Guest
wait that first sentence came out wrong, I sound like intoxicated chimp…..oh well.
 
C

ChozoChampion

Guest
ya being kicked in the face might be worth it if it did more dmg and if ranged attacks reflected would actually hurt your opponent
 
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ChozoChampion

Guest
man i did not expect a char this week and i especially didn’t expect diddy
 
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homelessvagrant

Guest
You know I don’t know the difference between the U.k update and the american update except for the fact that the u.k update is faster. So the number goes to 19. Diddy finally gets the spot he deserves, good for diddy.
 
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UndrDog

Guest
Save the Diddy discussion for the next blog entry. This entry already has a topic.

If you can’t wait then just discuss it on SWF.
 
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homelessvagrant

Guest
I’m sorry I meant 18, nineteen and twenty including falcon and Lucas/Ness. But guess what, “the Prophets” last prediction was wrong!!!!!
 

greenblob

Smash Lord
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,632
Location
SF Bay Area
I think the best way to fix Peach’s counter would be to give it more range, less cooldown lag, more stun, and less knockback. This way, instead of a mistake being punished for just a small amount of damage, it could end up being that amount of damage, a grab, and an aerial chain. Counters are meant to punish, but right now only Roy’s is even remotely dangerous.
 
R

Rockin

Guest
While I agree with you that her toad move should be more useful, I gotta talk about her Peach Bomb.

for one thing, the Wall Bomb is allowed, along as it’s not used for stalling (like on Fourside). The wall bomb is ment for a recovery.

Also, about the wall bomb. Despite it being slow and such, there ARE some uses for it. While it may be slow and rarely used on opponents, I could catch them off guard with this move sometimes. Maybe not all the time, but enough times to say that this move is a bit more useful, then useLESS
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
greenblob:
Quick question: Who’s counter is better. Marth’s or Roy’s?

If you answered Roy’s then you’ve lost the game. Marth’s is more practical and it works better for his style. Because Roy has such a hard time killing, he needs his counter to keep up. Unfortunately, if the move he counters is weak, then it’s no good. This move is hard enough to pull off anyway.

You’re idea for fixing Peach’s counter would indeed make it better. There’s no reason why it couldn’t’ be like that and still have sticky-slow-bomb-spores.
 
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sweet zelda

Guest
kirbykid
thank you for telling us about peach
i hope ther is more in the near future^_^
 
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sweet zelda

Guest
kirby kirby kirby you are soooooooooo lame
if you don’t like peach don’t post a comment cuz i love
her sooooooooooooooooooooo much she is sssssssoooooooo
cute sometimes i like her more then zelda!weird?
 

greenblob

Smash Lord
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,632
Location
SF Bay Area
The problem with Marth’s counter though is the fact that Marth has better options. Why go for a measly 7% when you could get an up-tilt or a fair in and potentially get a stock? Roy’s is much more situational, but at least there are some situations in which it can be deadly.

Anyway, I really like the spore effect idea. Counters are hard to connect since the opponent can generally see it coming, so they should be worth the effort. Being able to set up edgeguards or even KO the opponent, or being able to use it to setup combos seems like an effective way to punish someone who’s stupid enough to just rush in, and your idea works very well for the latter.
 
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homelessvagrant

Guest
I’d much cooler if a reversal pushed your opponent into a grab. i believe characters like Marth should be able to counter into a small combo because like greenblob said reversals should punish. I think specials should either be practical or situational and powerful. If a character has an even assortment of the two then the character opporate at the fullest.
 

The Hypnotist

Smash Lord
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
1,435
Location
Pinole, California (The Bay Area)
All great points. I play Peach and she has one problem. She's the only character in the top 5 that doesn't have a KO move. When I say a KO move, I mean a move that KOs at low percentages (i.e. Falco's Spike, Falcon's Knee). I think her Dair should be a decent spike or a powerful metor smash. Seriously, why doesn't she get a KO move.
 
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