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New Move Sets? Link

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
<p align="left">Link’s B moves have just been announced, so there’s no need to discuss how to tweak Link into pure performance perfection, right? WRONG! There would be much to discuss even without todays update. And there’s still much to discuss with it. After all, Sakurai loves giving us about 30% of what’s really going on in any given update. So lets get right to it.Link was kinda lame in Smash64. Judging from all the improvements they made to link for Melee, the developers really wanted to make him better. They easily improved his hookshot, up+B recovery distance, and his ability to spam his opponents to death (not really to death, but they are very annoying). Link’s smashes are pretty unique, and his kicks are versatile. On paper, they must have thought link was going to be top tier. Unfortunately, Link has a couple of problems that prevent him from being great. His weight is great, but it gets him comboed by many characters. And he’s kinda slow. Oh, and his sword is very weak for the most part. All in all, Link has a hard time killing.</font><font size="2"> </font></p>
<p align="left">But lets focus on Links B moves. With such an array of projectiles, it’s no wonder they made link so slow.</p>
<p align="center"> <a href="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/chibi_link_and_navi.jpg" title="chibi_link_and_navi.jpg"><img src="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/chibi_link_and_navi.jpg" alt="chibi_link_and_navi.jpg" style="width: 355px; height: 327px" height="327" width="355" /></a></p>
<p align="center">Link is supposed to be grown up, yet, if he continues to be weak, then he’ll forever look like this in the eyes of Smash.</p>
<!--more--><strong>Boomerang:</strong> This move is quite neat in the hands of a good link. By changing the angle of the throw, a variety of trajectories can be achieve. The boomerang returns to Link if it hits a character or other object. If link catches it as it comes back, he can throw it quickly again. And again. And again. And at close range, this projectile can do around 18% of damage. That’s quite a lot for a quick projectile. What balances out this ability is, when Link misses, he can’t throw a boomerang for a short period of time. This move is great, but lets see what we can do anyway.

1. The Australians invented this nifty weapon to strike prey as it ran away from them as they hunted on the outback. The purpose is to stun enemies. In all of Links games the boomerang stuns enemies whether they are in the air or on the ground. What does it do in Smash? It kinda hits the enemy very weakly into the air. It would be foolish to give the boomerang lots of strength because, as I’ve stated, that’s not what its function is. So, it would be cool if it DID stun enemies. Nothing major. Nothing that lasts too long. Just a little hit that freezes enemies in the middle of their animations. If they’re in the air, they can slowly fall in place sort of like how Fox can slowly fall at first from using his reflector in mid air.

2. In Links’ games, the boomerang can retrieve items. Now that it’s a gale boomerang, it would only make sense to “lightly pull” in some items too.

3. For a crazier idea, link could have the ability to throw his bomerang out and have it hover in place in mid air by holding the B button. Link’s boomerang had this function in the game The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords, but because he has the gale boomerang now, this idea is very unlikely and unnecessary.

<strong>Bomb:</strong> Link can pull a bomb from out of nowhere and throw it at you. You can’t really kick or punch this one because the explosion has multiple hits inside of it. It’s one of the few projectiles that can be dropped or thrown straight down. But what’s wrong with the bomb? It’s not very strong. And just as you’re thinking, weak hits can be followed up with other stronger attacks, when enemies explode, they can be randomly blown aside making it hard for Link to follow up. As it stands now, the bomb is good for racking up damage, but does that really sound like the function of a bomb?

1. Like in Link’s games, when the bomb is thrown on the ground, it shouldn’t blow up upon contact. In fact, it should roll. This new function will allow Link to easily leave traps on the stage. Leaving one on the edge would produce hilarious results.

2. The bomb needs to pack a punch. It doesn’t need to kill you like the bob-omb, but it does need to push characters around short distances in at least 8 directions. If it hits you from above you should be flung to the ground. If it hits you from below, you should fly up. If you’ve been paying careful attention, it looks like the bomb that blows up Eldin Bridge does this very thing. Check it out in the 15 second video clip. It would be interesting if the bomb gave the same amount of knock back at any damage level.

3. Link should be able to combine a bomb with his arrows or his boomerang. He had this ability in various Zelda games. It kind of makes things more interesting.

<strong>Arrows:</strong> I don’t know what they were thinking when they designed this move. If you use the move without charging, a sad little arrow flies about two inches in front of Link. This hardly has a chance of hitting anyone. And because Link isn’t too mobile when using this attack, an uncharged arrow is practically useless. Because the arrow has virtually no knock back, using it off the edge of a stage has a higher chance of saving opponents than killing them. But when charged this move becomes one of the best moves in the game, right? Sadly, no. With all the time Link invests in charging his arrows, he doesn’t get very many rewards. Sure the arrows fly faster and they do more damage, but by the time Link charges it up, it becomes quite obvious what’s going on. A player of any level can simply shield or jump onto a platform to get out of harms way. And because Link is firmly rooted to the ground, there’s hardly a point of using this move. This is really sad considering that Shiek and Donkey Kong can charge and cancel charging their B specials on the ground and in mid air. And after their attacks are fully charged, they have the choice of releasing the powered up attack when they feel is best. The only cool thing about Link’s arrows is they stick in the ground. These grounded arrows have the ability to block certain projectiles and attacks. Unfortunately, these situations aren’t very many or very frequent.

1. In many of Link’s games, the arrows can hit enemies, and drag them across the screen to be pinned up against the opposite wall for a short period of time. If Link’s arrows could do this in smash, then there would be a reason to use the sad little uncharged shot. If this arrow hit an enemy, they would be dragged down to the stage and pinned to the ground. In other words, it would be a spike. A spiking projectile? KirbyKid, isn’t that broken beyond belief? Well, in order to shoot Link’s arrows down, the arrows have to have very little to no charge. When this happens, the arrows travel very slowly. So the short period of “pinned” time wouldn’t last long enough to make this move extremely dangerous. Also, you can always give the opponent the option to wiggle to reduce the “pinned” time. According to the update, Link’s fires his arrow quickly and straight. You can see in action in one of the early videos of Brawl. So we wouldn’t have to worry about arrow spikes anyway.

<strong>Spin attack:</strong> This move doesn’t come out extremely fast, and it’s not extremely strong. Fortunately it does last longer than most attacks, and it has a bit of range that extends in front and back of Link. If you think this attack is too good, Link is still vulnerable from above and below (if you can duck that low like me). But if that wasn’t enough, for some UNKNOWN reason, if you shield any part of this attack, you can drop your shield and the swinging blades will no longer hurt you. This gives you an easy opening to charge a smash attack that Link can’t get away from. This would have been the only thing I would have suggested fixing, but today’s update gave me another idea.

1. Sakurai said Link can charge his up+B now. Its safe to assume that charging mean more power. This is already a plus. But, like in his games, it would be cool if Link could slowly walk forward with his sword held in front or in back of him as he charges. This sword would be an active but weak hit box just like from Link to the Past or Four Swords. If anyone runs into the sword during this time, the charge would be canceled.

2. Also, just like form Link’s past games, when charging, his shield is placed on his back. This shield should be able to block projectiles and weak attacks. Remember my new shield ideas from previous blog entries. It’s all coming back!

Link was sooo close to being awesome in Melee. We can only sit back and hope that Sakurai and team put their magic into all the characters this time around. In the mean time, I’ll finish the favor by spreading <a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=QjBtY0ub6lQ" target="_blank">some Germ</a> around. And <a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=XVvxh0aCQJQ" target="_blank">more Germ</a>.
 
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EdwardGordon

Guest
Seeing as Link is my main character, these improvements would just be (for lack of a better word)…. grand.

I don’t see a chargeable spin attack being much use if I can’t either walk slowly with it, or cancel charge and use it later.

And I think that Link should have the function where I quickly press down-B to pull out a bomb and then just as quickly Press B again to place that bomb on my bow. Or even if its slow, that would still be useful as long as it does the proper amount of damage.
 
L

Lava

Guest
Ah, so it DOES shut down the site when you put up a new post!
 
H

homelessvagrant

Guest
I like Germ. the link above is adorable. But the overall article again is one to be sought. I can only hope you get that game development career you want.
 
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homelessvagrant

Guest
Not to get on a bad tangent but I just thought of something. Think of the assist trophies and hammer bros. Why because of the subspasce emissary update. We all know the hammer bros are subspace emissary foes as well as assist trophies but does anyone know what doors that opens up.

remeber in melee that sometimes foes (goombas, redeads, etc.) appeared in crates. What if in brawl instead of aventure mode villains appearing in crates on vs mode they would occasionally apear as assist trophies (lousy assist trophies but ATs none the less). Metriod could be in adventure mode and as ATs. What if one assist trophy summoned the halberd (or another ship) and it shot out black spores to make multiple robot guys. it would make the brawl a much more interesting fight utter chaos would insue. Imagine you raising an AT only for Master Hand to come out and do his thing. Sounds ridiculous at first until you think about Bowser’s final smash.

Sorry for the tangent kirbykid, again great article.
 
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EdwardGordon

Guest
After that Update I can see it now:

The movie cuts to a timed boss battle. Kirby vs Petey Piranha.
And the movie changes slightly pending on which character you choose.

This game is going to be brilliant.
 
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homelessvagrant

Guest
yes you can choose one of the four characters and face the first level and each stage you choose a character from a list and the story changes for any character you choose.
 
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ChozoChampion

Guest
i think the bow would be slightly more useful if the charge time was halfed.this would give less time to notice it. of course in melee i just shot arrows in the ground to block ranged attacks
 
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ArtyTheB

Guest
Well that was weird.
When did we start talking about the Subspace Army?
But that does sound like a cool idea. The adventure could be different every time you play it.
But I still think each character should get their own personal storyline.

Oooh. Maybe they’ve made like an actual adventure game.
Where you earn your special moves as you play the game. This could be great for learning all the ways the moves can be used in battle.

I think its gonna be really interesting either way.
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
homelessvagrant:
There is no charge at all according to the video evidence. Go to the Dojo and take a look at one of the first videos released for Brawl.
 

greenblob

Smash Lord
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,632
Location
SF Bay Area
I love the boomerang. Just when your opponent thinks that the combo’s over, BAM, the boomerang comes back and sets them up for another fair.

Anyway, I agree with most of this. The arrows really need some sort of purpose. As it stands, it’s basically a bad version of the boomerang when charged or a bad version of the bomb when uncharged.

I’d also like it if Link’s up B weren’t a multi-hit attack in the air and instead have the same effect knockback-wise as it does on the ground.

And last thing, can’t you already plant bombs on the edge? Of course if they sweetspot, it won’t do anything (unless the bomb happens to explode by itself at just the right moment).
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
Greenblob:
As it is now, it takes a lot of skill with timing to plant bombs on the stage. It’s a little easier dropping them on platforms but still, it’s quite a trick. Back in smash64, link could soft toss the bombs forward and they wouldn’t explode when they hit the ground. I can’t believe I”m saying this, but they should have kept the bombs like that. Oh, and they were bigger in smash 64, because well… everything was bigger. Have you seen Mario’s fireballs?

All in all, if they’re trying to make the game easier/more accessible then placing bombs on the stage should be a lot simpler. After all, Link’s clawshot homes the edges now.
 
S

solid_snack

Guest
Excellent post, as usual. My main problem with Link was that his sword, for the most part, was very weak (especially his Smash attacks). The Sword of Evil’s Bane ought to be a harbinger of pain and knockback!

Oh, and KirbyKid, you being the future game developer, I need to ask something. How do they determine the knockback of a given attack? I would guess they use mathematical equations, whether they’re linear, quadratic, or integrals. I figured you would know, being a future game developer and all.
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
solid_snack:
I haven’t looked into the code for Melee, nor have I done a lot of technical research.

Are you connect to www.smashboards.com ? They do a lot of research there, and they have a lot of resources for those of you who are interested in the Math side of life. I have the formula for how the game determines wiggling (out of grabs for example).

From my experience, it takes a lot of Math to render crazy graphics, but it doesn’t require complicated math to effect gameplay. After all, if gameplay is the active part of playing a game, then it generally has to be understood by those playing the game. If the math and understanding the game were too complicated then only the top 1% of the world would be able to understand.
 
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